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[–] 31 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 child)

You’re not lying to your computer. A PDF is a print. It’s just on screen instead of on paper.

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  • [–] 53 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (10 children)

    Strangely, this kinda makes sense. PDF is based on PostScript, which is a file type (also by Adobe) that gets sent to printers. It's just skipping the final "send to printer" part and sends it to a file instead.

    A fascinating thing (in a scary way) is that PostScript is technically a full programming language with loops, functions, logic, and a built-in font rendering and 2D graphics engine. When a document is printed using PostScript, your computer generates a script to lay out the page, that the printer runs in order to produce the document!

    PDF is essentially "the safe parts" of PostScript - the same 2D graphics engine but with all the dynamic parts removed. PDFs are statically laid out when they're created, rather than having to run arbitrary code to lay them out like PostScript does.

    PDF does support JavaScript code, but it's rarely used and needs to be granted permission to run. It's not a core part of the format.

    For printing, PCL has somewhat taken over and it's less scary - it just has preset commands rather than allowing arbitrary code in a full programming language. PostScript is still used today for higher-end printers and print jobs though.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 child)

    A fascinating thing (in a scary way) is that PostScript is technically a full programming language with loops, functions, logic, and a built-in font rendering and 2D graphics engine.

    It also had a extension to create NextStep UI with it.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

    It wasn’t really an extension… The nextstep user interface was just written in postscript and objective-C.

    This is how the nextstep UI was so smooth and sharp and so well built for design, especially output to print. And how that translated to macOS (although the graphics display subsystem and macOS is based on the more advanced PDF, not postscript). It’s also part of the entire print sub systems, and how it was always so easy to create a PDF in the manner the OP suggests. That functionality was really only added to other operating systems later with plugins.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    Ok but that's a really low bar, you could just list on what Doom can't run :).

    Also if you print doom.pdf, does the printer run it like this

    or like this

    ?

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    I've seen some pretty feature rich PDFs - before WebGIS got really good, people would often disseminate digital maps and geographic reports via GeospatialPDF which is an extension for PDF. You can do all kinds of stuff in there related to measuring distances, coordinate transformations and zoom/pan around the maps. Some of these files would end up being >500MB. Probably still used quite a lot field work I imagine.

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    [–] 51 points 5 days ago

    Because PDF is literally that, a compressed print. it is not for editing, forms or anything it is a representation of a print.

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  • [–] 22 points 5 days ago (7 children)

    Because you are using the wrong tool. Libreoffice has a dedicated export to PDF button. Other tools do too.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 days ago (5 children)

    so do Adobe Illustrator and many CAD tools

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago (4 children)

    Is OP still using winrar and notepad++?

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  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    I feel attacked.
    What is the current meta for a syntax highlighting, regex capable, multi tab text editor that remembers my open files and can follow changes?

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  • [–] 41 points 5 days ago (9 children)

    File → Export PDF?

    What? Libreoffice has had this one since always.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 days ago (5 children)
  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    Same with Word and any of the other Office products.

    Seems like a standard feature in any document managing software.

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  • I've found that exporting to PDF sometimes has inconsistent results vs passing it thru the systems print dialog. Like sometimes fonts fail to render or locations/margins get messed up when "exported" since that's the softwares built in interpreter.

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  • [–] 123 points 5 days ago (25 children)

    pdf is a print and typesetting format for printers. what's crazy is that we're using it for something other than that.

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  • [–] 30 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    History of PDF is basically: We need a standard format to get print jobs over there > Postscript > let's add feature X > also feature y > make it do thing too! > uh oh, it's gotten too powerful, security galore > reboot and slim it down > PDF > let's add feature X > also feature y > …

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  • [–] 50 points 5 days ago (12 children)

    It's not? The p stands for portable, which implies a digital format for software use. Maybe you're thinking of postscript?

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  • [–] 32 points 5 days ago (11 children)

    pdf is a postscript container format, yes.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 days ago (10 children)

    Yep, but mainly meant for computer screens rather than paper, no?

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  • [–] 41 points 5 days ago (5 children)

    No. It is designed for print. It is used for screens (that's the crazy part). Something like HTML or epub is designed for screens. PDF later got extended with some features, that only make sense on screen but the original design is for print and it shows. For example everything has a fixed layout size (like paper). And most of the time the order of words got lost so you can not select text in a meaningful way (something that would not matter if it is printed).

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  • [–] 17 points 5 days ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    you're thinking of display postscript? i think that was an extension of the original language.

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  • [–] 28 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_PDF

    PDF was developed to share documents, including text formatting and inline images, among computer users of disparate platforms who may not have access to mutually-compatible application software.[2]

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  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

    Confidently incorrect.

    Edit: apparently I kinda was actually.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 child)

    This is funny. They’re correct.

    Development of PDF began in 1991, when Adobe's co-founder John Warnock wrote a paper for a project then code-named Camelot, in which he proposed the creation of a simplified version of Adobe's PostScript format called Interchange PostScript (IPS).[1] Unlike traditional PostScript, which was tightly focused on rendering print jobs to output devices, IPS would be optimized for displaying pages to any screen and any platform.[1]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_PDF

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    That's interesting indeed. I knew it was about portability, being right there in the name, but I thought it was about being as compatible everywhere (any device) as possible, then over time also became the defacto way to share a printable document, then that use case waned in popularity since the mid aughts.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 days ago (5 children)

    Personally, I think in dealing with text documents, we should only respect:

    • Markdown
    • Org
    • Wikidot
    • LaTeX
    • Typst if you are a progressive zoomer

    Everything else is mental illness.

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  • [–] 14 points 5 days ago

    The entire tech stack is a tactical mess

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  • [–] 12 points 4 days ago

    To print, these days, you generate PostScript and fire that off to the printer.

    PostScript -> PDF is a very light translation.

    The biggest slight is not renaming print to Print/PDF and just shortcutting the same exact code.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    I mean why would you build some PDF export stuff when this basic functionality is already available in most browsers.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago

    I would miss the little ruse tbh. Keep my computer guessing, it's trying to know me too much lately.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago

    Print Dat File

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  • [–] 8 points 5 days ago

    All modern printers save documents as a multi-paged image (read: a PDF) in their memory before printing it onto paper. It's trivial to make the print dialog save a PDF file because you're telling it to give the file it just made back to the computer instead of giving it to the printer.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago (1 child)
  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago

    i mean, yeah. turned out to be a pretty good way to make pdf conversion accessible to a lot of people and make it convenient to convert it and print it all from one spot.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 days ago

    you're printing it to disk. this is a trick as old as time. like piping.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    I think this is more of an expression of more people printing (and it being prominent in the UI) than anything else.

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  • If it's stupid but works it is not stupid :)

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    Also still the best way to record audio from anything, including MUSIC SOFTWARE to create a loop back sound device :) if it works, it works...

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago (7 children)

    Just as crazy as not being able to convert PDF "properly" to docx or other format...

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

    Onlyoffice (vibe coded trash [that works]) allows you to do this. You can also just straight up edit most PDFs I've run through it. The exception is if its a collection of images, which many PDFs unfortunately are.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    If it works, then why is it vibe coded trash? Do you mean anything coded with AI is trash by default despite literally no one solving this problem manually for 30 fucking years?

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  • [–] 5 points 5 days ago

    (There are other pdf editors, it's not an unsolved problem, however as others pointed out pdf is a sort of print as a definition. Like saving a .txt as a .png. Whoever made a png/pdf did that purposely. Also you can even ocr any print/pdf for like 30 years.)

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago

    Code can work but still be trash. The important question is whether it's actually maintainable. Can issues be fixed without creating more problems? Is it archiected to allow likely new features to be added without having to rebuild large parts of the code? Trash can certainly be produced by humans too, but LLMs don't really take any of this into consideration, as they don't think, so they have a very high chance of producing trash.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Tell me you don't use Pandoc without telling me you don't use Pandoc.

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