The contempt Proton is showing for their users is astounding. They not only think people will fall for this transparent act of damage control, but they also have the gall to shift blame onto the users.

Go read the comments. Obvious bots are posting praise and many critical comments are being deleted by the moderators.

all 80 comments

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[–] 125 points 1 week ago (15 children)

perception is more important than truth

That's all I need to read.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    Proton have marketed themselves exceptionally well, comments suggesting they are not what they seem have always been met with a lot of downvotes. They marketed themselves into a brand receiving the same blind adoration as a sporting tam.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (7 children)

    Sometimes it feels like the other way around too. So much hate and few reasonable discussions, like where to go?

    I'm on proton, and maybe I have been fooled but then where to go? Switzerland has one of the best privacy laws on the planet, the services are stellar (IMO), and yeah fuck the C-Suits, but google, mullvad, etc? No thank you.

    It's so infuriating.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (1 child)

    I like having a single stack of integrated features, so that I don't have to shop around and figure who is the current best in slot far as service providers go. Yen is making it hard for me to stay with Proton, making it feel much less trustworthy.

    The redeeming feature is that Proton is in Switzerland, for the reasons you gave. I figure a European country with good privacy standards might be able to rein in this bullshit. Might.

    I will be watching this, and hope we get a Proton replacement - be it as a service, or the ditching of conservative leadership from Proton.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (4 children)

    Privacyguides.org has some generally solid info. For email it looks like your best bet is Tuta and for a VPN it's Mullvad.

    They mention Mailbox.org and ivpn too, but both of those have pretty clear deal breakers for me.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Charitably, it means the incorrect perceptions cause damage regardless of the truth. Do you dispute that position?

    See how much harder it is to dismiss a position when we don't shortchange it?

    I myself don't care what happens to Proton as a privately held company, and I don't buy their services. I just don't like cheap shots. The level of discourse at the fediverse doesn't need to devolve into another reddit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    You got it right. I saw the thread and the entire thing was a gigantic manipulation. But still, even in the context of that manipulation, it meant get out there and talk because others have perceptions that are out of alignment with our reality.

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  • [–] 71 points 1 week ago

    Somehow Proton is making it even worse. Just when I thought it couldn't get worse.

    Watching this CEO ripping down his own company & calling employees losers is wild stuff. But many saw it coming after his pro-gop remarks. He is who he is, and this was imminent with Andy remaining in charge after that.

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  • [–] 59 points 1 week ago

    “Leakers”

    “This hurts me”

    Obvious appeals to emotion, like all big tech manipulation.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    At Proton, the engineering and product management roles are merging and we call this new discipline "Product Engineering". Proton also mostly hires product managers with engineering backgrounds. It means we stop hiring engineers who just code, and hire instead product engineers who also exercise product judgment that AI doesn’t have, not that we don’t hire engineers at all.

    eugh

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  • [–] 26 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Oh no. I have been dragging my feet on leaving Proton. This means I need to make it a priority before they fuck things up irreparably.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    i signed on posteo because i had to pay and the sunk costs hopefully help me switch. Also their service/website looks almost exactly like 10 years ago so im hopeful that its a safe option for mail that websites accept

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  • [–] 44 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Christ, who's doing their damage control? The church of Scientology??

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  • [–] 68 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Proton is not rushing into AI without concern for safety, it is actually being done very carefully.

    “stop lovingly handcrafting all our code and use AI more.”

    One of these is not like the other.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago

    If you are choosing to use "AI" right now, that is proof enough you do not have "concern for safety": https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/pol40/0996/2026/en/

    There are no ethical commercial models. IBM Granite is the closest you'll get, and the last model that claimed training data set that allowed the output to be freely redistributed failed the first time someone independent looked.

    Even training your own is suspect. Distillation of a commercial model means using it. I'm not sure about the ecological impact of training your own model, but I know commercial training has set back sustainability goals at multiple companies by more than a decade.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 week ago (4 children)
  • [–] 25 points 1 week ago (19 children)

    So where now, any suggestions?
    I use proton for email and password management.

    I'm happy to pay for a product so long as it isn't lining the pockets of abhorrent people.

    Getting real tired of seemingly having to sit down and research who I'm give my money to, can't we just stop being hateful bastards for a while?

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  • [–] 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

    Go piecemeal. Proton is a good deal if you actually use all their services, otherwise it's overpriced.

    For mail, mailbox.org, posteo.de, and fastmail.net seem to have good reputations. They'll all allow you to bring your own domain (edit: not Posteo, my mistake), which I highly recommend so that it'll be easy to switch providers again when whichever one you choose turns to shit (yes, I say when, not if, because I am just that jaded at this point).

    For passwords, there are a lot of choices, but the most future-proof is probably to keep a local Keepass DB and sync it across devices any damn way you want. Bitwarden used to be good but I don't know anymore. They've backed away from open source a bit recently, and I can't even tell at a glance what their free plan offers anymore. Maybe look at https://vaultwarden.com/ instead.

    For VPN and storage...I dunno. There are a lot, and most of them seem kind of shady tbh. I'd be interested in hearing others' advice on this since I'm not sure what's good these days.

    Edit: I'd REALLY like to hear recommendations for Docs and especially Sheets. Everything else I've used is a UX nightmare, particularly on mobile.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    Do it yourself is really the only way. Password management yourself is easy, email self hosting...not as much. But it is do-able.

    The email middle ground is using your own domain and finding a decent host that runs an Imap email server. But who that is these days is a guess.

    Some of the long time mostly trusted hosts have begun to add AI and raise prices.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago* (3 children)

    Getting your own domain is the important part. If you're ever unhappy with your provider you just swap your DNS records and boom, move it to the new provider in seconds.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I can't find a domain name I like that isn't annoying to try to tell people 😭 My first world problems are insurmountable.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    How would you suggest this password management is done and synced across devices?

    I know of KeePass, though haven't looked into it too closely.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    I never understood why someone would use a 3rd party for "password management"

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (3 children)

    You wrote your own password manager? Bold, as its a vault that contains your whole digital life and cryptography is notoriously easy to fuck up.

    Even things like keepass are 3rd party password managers. You have an issue with a well audited, decades old, "the vault is an encrypted local file," 3rd party password manager as well?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 week ago

    Read through the post and the comments. Most of the comments are people pointing this out for what it is - a sanctioned attempt by Proton (from someone who appears to be a personal friend of Yen) at changing the narrative. It doesn't change my mind at all, and actually hardens me to the idea of moving.

    A genuine post by a lower-level employee below was more interesting, but the core of it is: Yen goes or we go.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    So they're openly admitting that they're using Reddit for astroturfing now? I didn't click the link because fuck reddit, but no doubt they have armies of shill accounts boosting their PR image. They probably even have reps inside PR to manage all of it, and might even be paying them for that privilege.

    It's hilarious how both Reddit and Proton keep digging deeper into the holes they created for themselves.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago*

    Reddit just sells bot access to advertisers. The whole thing now is instead of seo is ai search optimization. Which in reality is just a bunch of Israeli companies who use ai to AstroTurf posts for other companies many of which are political, or for PR companies. They also do product placement type stuff but that's less interesting.

    Basically if there's a unique sentence on the internet and you Google something close to that sentence google will present it as fact, also google prefers to show latest search results so the idea is you just constantly flood the internet with similarly worded ai written articles, reddit bots, etc and you own the search result. They did it with the whole open ai hacked huggingface controversy, that was ran by a Israeli ad company that just shits out ai articles in mass to manipulate our search algorithms.

    And you cant talk out against it, reddit, tiktok, etc all owned by Israel interest now so you get censored.

    Basically GW from mgs

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  • [–] 16 points 1 week ago

    Proton's devs are hopefully better than their PR team. And at this rate both will need new jobs soon.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    If they were given permission then they were given a script as well, pos CEO can't stop posing.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    No comms professional would approve of them doing this, and no professional wrote that script. I'd put money on this coming direct from Yen or another executive.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago*

    The guy is Proton employee #5. He used to share a desk with the CEO. Hes a high level exec and a personal friend of Andy, so yup.

    He also called his 8 coworkers who were brave enough to whistleblow "cowards." This is exceptionally rich from Proton, which has bragged about being safe for whistleblowers to use.

    Somehow, he didnt post much more after people roasted the fuck out of him.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 week ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago

    Reddit is pointless now

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago

    Migrate your stuff, cancel your subscriptions, be completely ready to be banned from your account when you then get a credit card chargeback from your bank.

    That's what I did, years ago when Andy Yen was praising fascists on social media.

    Get that chargeback. Just be fully migrated away first because they WILL block your access to your account whem it goes through.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Wow. They really don't get their customer base

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  • [–] 23 points 1 week ago

    ThE CeO pRaIsInG FaScIsTs DoEsNT AfFeCt tHe PrOducT

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    Just so we don't forget, Mullvad is 1.000x worse, so if you leave Proton, don't go there:

    https://korben.info/en/mullvad-cofounder-funding-far-right.html

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    Yeah, already gave Mailbox.org a try via their free trial and it's great. So, now I'm not switching back even if they clean up their act. Thanks Proton! Lmao

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    If I had a VPN as good as Proton I'd switch to that and Tutamail in a heartbeat.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (3 children)

    Seems like tuta is going the way of the slop code as well from what I've been seeing. Mailbox.org is topping my list for now. VPN hasn't been decided yet. Everything else I'll just self host on my vps behind wireguard.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    This is where I was getting some info from.

    https://pivot-to-ai.com/2026/10/30/proton-mail-goes-full-ai-slop-tuta-starts-going-slop/

    "Internal use is different because whoever is committing LLM-assisted code takes full responsibility for it and is therefore staking their reputation on that code being good. Git blame will also still show their name."

    So no external AI code but internal is fine apparently.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    Some reddit employees do the same to their pile of shit. It's easy to drink the coolaid from the inside, especially if you think it'll help you get ahead.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    I don't use proton services because I thought the community told me not to use them because they give up your information or something a few years ago.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    They had to follow a lawful subpoena, it's not like with ring where the police just ask and ring just sends your footage without consulting you.

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