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[–] 27 points 2 weeks ago

And cars are this expensive after we've made almost all roads completely free to drive on.

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  • [–] 31 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I mean life is just expensive, yeah some of these items are a bit high but honestlyly overall it's pretty realistic if you aren't actively saving money and trying to live on the cheap.

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  • [–] 53 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    Not the point of the post, i know, but who spends 70$ a month on on "gym"? I bought weights and a pullup bar for a one-time payment of like 50$, and i jog outside for free

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    I mean we can pick this apart in a ton of ways. $60/m on clothes? My house would be 80% plain cotton T-shirts by mass. I probably spend a bit more than that in a while year. Typically that's a carton of socks and replacing a couple pairs of pants which get damaged.

    But then I probably spend like $500/m at one bar near my house.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago*

    I think my next door neighbors are not going to be thrilled to have 220kg+ deadlifts dropped above them.

    Having said that, I don't spend 70 a month for the gym, and I currently have two memberships.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    Could be something like a YMCA which I personally prefer over a Planet Fitness when I do have a gym membership. One example of my preference for it is because mentally I can't do treadmills when running and some places I have lived before haven't bean great for running outside. Most YMCAs have an indoor track that you can run on even if it is tiny, and there are usually multiple options across town. Not many other gyms in my area with indoor tracks.

    That's a really dumb example. The OP could be a swimmer in which case a more expensive YMCA membership makes even more sense then. Just as another example.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    Sell the $20,000 suv and get a 2004 Honda Civic or similar, and dont borrow any money to buy it

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  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    It's wild how much these numbers vary across the Atlantic. Those car costs are tiny compared to living in the Netherlands or the UK for example. Fuel is much more expensive, as is parking.

    Phone and internet access on the other hand... you poor bastards are getting robbed. You can get a good mobile plan here for £10/mo for example. I have fibre to my home for £32/mo.

    Also, $60/mo for clothing? How often are you people buying new clothes?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago*

    In my country, mobile plan is same £10 (converted), for which I get unmetered 5G Internet, SMS and calls. You can get a decent one for less.

    Home fiber (800 Mbps) costs also about £10.

    All while my country is at war and its communication infrastructure is being targeted (it works just fine tho)

    I.e. you get robbed, and they go beyond sanity

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    That's only $720 a year for clothing, which is not that much, when a pair of good-quality jeans can be $75-120. It's cheaper if you buy the fast fashion shit with fabric that's going to wear through in 6 months, of course. Even better, that $60 is a king's ransom if you buy clothing by weight at the Dig 'n Save, as long as you don't mind wearing a 2007 Girls State Basketball Tournament sweatshirt.

    You have just discovered why so many Americans dress like total schlubs.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

    WTF $70 for internet? Is it that normal?

    I pay 21€ for mine.

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  • [–] 68 points 2 weeks ago

    In the US, yes. It's stupid expensive because we gave the telecoms a lot of money to upgrade the infrastructure and they didn't, so we gave them a bunch more but they still didn't. So now we pay off our debt to telecoms by paying too much for internet. Freedom.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    European internet is heavily subsidized by the state

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (2 children)

    Canadian Internet is not.

    180 per month :(

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago*

    Its nice to see a breakdown like this, but in the figures the "savings" section has a higher total than the "transportation" section...

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    Car dependency is definitely not bankrupting people... The wealth Gap and wage Gap and unrestrained capitalism are bankrupting people. But sure car dependencies definitely a part of that

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (5 children)

    Are they classifying areas by the "crime rate"?

    Also, aren't maintenance and insurance costs too low?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    That maintenance is high for a new car. I didn't spend anything in the first 3 years I had my new car, and even after that it was more like $500 a year, not $150 a month.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    They didn't include a new car though, and a 20,000 SUV is not going to be in a like new state, its going to need some upkeep. $1800/yr is probably a little low. That's one semi serious issue without including oil changes, or tires, or brakes.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    60 for electricity! Wow.

    Its 30 minimum where I'm at. Because thats how much they charge you without the 40c per kilowatt. Crazy

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Actual unhinged electricity rates, many places you get cheaper rate than that for using a fast EV charger

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago* (2 children)

    If you go outside where I'm at, its suddenly half the price. But yeah its a bit worse than this website:

    https://nrgcleanpower.com/learning-center/fresno-electricity-rates/

    PGE sucks.

    There's a metric ton of solar being put up because its super expensive to have PGE.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Well, until January. I planned a solar setup to get partially offgrid to avoid $400 PG&E bills, but installations trigger tax assessments next year. Completely negates any benefits.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 weeks ago (18 children)

    I have a degree and I have never made 85k in my life. I never get a yearly vacation either, I hate to break it to whoever this person is but this is not “middle class” in 2026. This is upper middle class at least.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 weeks ago* (10 children)

    sounds more like you're not middle class if you don't have income for discretionary spending

    that's, like, the definition of middle class

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  • [–] -5 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    By the classic definition I am middle class by virtue of having a degree and not being in a blue collar job.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    We understand the usage and meaning of the term middle class VERY differently

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    You are going to need to take that up with Wikipedia:

    Common definitions for the middle class range from the middle fifth of individuals on a nation's income ladder, to everyone but the poorest and wealthiest 20%.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    That doesn't say anything about blue collar or having a degree.

    The trades are blue collar and can make more than a lot of lower paying white collar jobs. Hell, I just had a union blue collar job back in the day and had to be picky about which tech career path I took out of that because it paid as well as the lower end jobs I had been eyeing.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (5 children)

    The classic definition of middle class was, as far as I learned it, making enough money that you could afford to pay for your family's expenses without needing your wife to also work.

    This came out of the poor working conditions in factories in the 1800s, where people often were hurt, maimed, or even killed (compared to today, this was quite common). If you made enough money that only one family member had to suffer (at this time it was always the husband), that was the bare minimum to be considered middle class. This was regardless of income, it was more about what you could afford.

    Prior to this, I'm not sure middle class was really much of a concept. Most groups were separated by trade and upbringing, and pretty much overall separating the low class from artisans, merchants, nobility, and royalty, with no real middle class afaik. It was, for example, quite common for artisan families to all work together

    Edit: i feel compelled to share that i studied history for my degree, and i am sharing one of the definitions i was taught.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Common definitions for the middle class range from the middle fifth of individuals on a nation's income ladder, to everyone but the poorest and wealthiest 20%.

    From Wikipedia.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

    I thought we were talking classical definitions, not the definition/s currently considered common according to Wikipedia.

    I had no intention of declaring your personal financial situation. I was trying to provide historical context for the term (as far as I know).

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  • [–] -2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    No we were talking about your understanding of what middle class means but if you are going to to be pedantic:

    The modern usage of the term "middle-class", however, dates to the 1913 UK Registrar-General's report, in which the statistician T. H. C. Stevensonidentified the middle class as those falling between the upper-class and the working-class.[15] The middle class includes: professionals, managers, and senior civil servants. The chief defining characteristic of membership in the middle-class is control of significant human capital while still being under the dominion of the elite upper class, who control much of the financial and legal capital in the world.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    I'm not sure where the combativeness is coming from. I came in to share my understanding of the origin of the concept of middle class. I was not intending on being pedantic.

    There's no need to aggressively copy and paste a few Wikipedia articles and pretend to be an expert

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  • [–] -2 points 2 weeks ago

    I find it very weird that you think I’m pretending to be an expert when I am going by what other people have written and you are going by “your understanding” and feel they are equivalent. The combativeness is coming from the pedantry, once again on this site I shared a personal anecdote and now I have multiple people taking me to task about my understanding of my life based on knowing the equivalent of a tweet about me.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I have degrees, make $110k before taxes and overtime. Our household makes over $200k before taxes, with 2 kids. We are upper middle class, i think. $85k, single person household is firmly middle class.

    We do 1-2 large vacations with a dozen camp trips yearly. Our vehicles average age is also 20 years old and our house is way below what we could afford, so that may be part of our financial freedom.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    My spouse and I have three degrees between the two of us and neither of us has ever made that much. At this point we will likely be too old for kids before we can afford them.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    I got lucky and ended up at a job with almost infinite growth. Masters in mechE and I do controls, scada, and inventory management stuff. My wife is a high paid dental assistant.

    My job is imposter syndrome defined. I enter a factory and I'm the most important person in the building, but I feel like I barely understand what I'm doing. Wish I could give career advice besides 'be the expert in the room'. Which I know cant be everyone.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    I wouldn't put too much stock into the actual numbers. Even in just the US, the same middle class lifestyle might be $50k in one location and $200k in another.

    Case in point, I live in a comfortable single-bedroom apartment in a low crime rate area for $650 a month. OP's figure is almost triple that.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    It's interesting to compare these figures to my own situation, for sure.

    Housing costs: I live in a 3 room apartment (2 bedrooms + kitchen + living room + 1 bathroom), it's our equivalent of a condo which I had to spend ~$50k on a down payment. The total monthly cost on it is ~$1600, which I share with my partner. Some of that goes towards paying off the loan, and some of it becomes discounted because interest payments are tax deductible in my country. The apartment is located in what I would call not the most desirable but fully acceptable area of the capital of my country, with a 15 minute bike ride to reach the central station of my city, and the same to the office where I work. There's also plenty of transit available, but I prefer biking because it's fun, less expensive and gives me built in exercise.

    The insurance on the apartment is somewhere between $20-30/month, and covers both the apartment, accidental damage to property and travel insurance.

    For the garage, I pay $25/year for a private bike parking spot in one of the bike sheds in my apartment coop.

    I don't have a car, but there's some amount of cost to the upkeep of my bike. Generously I'd put it at $200/year maybe, but I've also spent some amount of upfront cost buying the thing.

    Health insurance is free in my country. A visit to the doctor will set you back perhaps $30, with a cap of ~$150 per year. There's also a cap on prescription medicine at $300 per year.

    Water + electricity + internet was included in the total monthly cost for the apartment. Our electricity/water costs represent maybe $30 of that expense post, and the internet comes at no extra cost in the apartment coop. I get a phone plan as a part of my employment contract, so I don't have to spend anything on that.

    For food at home, me and my partner spend maybe $400 between ourselves generously on home-cooked meals. For eating out it's maybe $100 a month at most.

    I cut my hair once every three months for around $30. My gym membership is $40/year, which covers both me and my partner (seriously, I love my apartment coop, it's the best). The only subscriptions I have are a VPN subscription setting me back a little under $4/month and Nebula which is $37.5/year. The toiletries I included in the food expenses.

    Student loans are comparatively inexpensive to service in my country. I pay about $200 quarterly on it.

    Weddings are not particularly common among my friends, and the last time I attended one was more than 5 years ago.

    I don't really drink any more, so there's no expense to be had on the alcohol front.

    Where I spend more is on vacations - I have 6 weeks of paid vacation per year, and I try to make good use of it. Sometimes this means taking the train to visit family, which is not particularly expensive since the train is cheap and food and accomodation with family is free, but at least once a year it means a longer vacation where we stay at hotels and eat out every day, making it a more costly affair.

    Being able to take home $5500 a month in my country would be extremely uncommon though, placing you very highly on the income scale.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I have been essentially carless for almost three years. I own a car, but it's "on loan" to my mom because she lives where a car is an essential and I don't, and she's too poverty-stricken to buy one.

    That said, I bought a Segway Max G3 in June and it's awesome for getting around if you only need to operate within a 5-6 mile radius. The mileage is way higher if you stick to 10mph, but I'm a speed demon. I actually save a lot of money on energy costs because it takes way less electric to charge the battery than would be consumed if I were at home using my devices, appliances, and running heat or A/C.

    Just make sure to shop for a deal and don't buy the first one you see. I saved $400 on the one I bought. It was a floor model from a retailer in LA that only had 4 miles on the odometer.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    to add on to this, a lot of places you dont need a motorcycle license (although classes are a good idea regardless) to ride a 50cc moped. got one last year and it is saving my ass on maintenance and gas. follow licensing/registration laws, guys :)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Some places also have required inspections at certain intervals for vehicles. I think it was every other year in Texas and cost like $45. Also tags in places that do that which was yearly from what I remember.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    I am fortunate enough that I could buy an apartment last year (south Germany) my mortgage+refinancing is about the same as your rent.

    I have not own a car since 2017 and I don't think I would have been able to afford to buy an apartment if I did have a car this whole time.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Annual vacation costing $1500 🤣

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

    $1500 isn't nearly enough for a vacation.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    You missing a $150 monthly expense for weed. Other than that I can tell you're overspending on your car, $70 on car insurance is cheap lol as a 26 yo.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    $420

    "Miscellaneous expense" bro spends almost as much on weed as gas...

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  • [+] -16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)
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    [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Wow, I'm overpaying for life. Where did this person get such great deals on electricity and student loan payments?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    I just looked at my kid's bills for a 2 bedroom apartment, almost $90 total for elect, gas, water, and trash. So $45 a person, which makes just $60 for elect seem a bit high. We are in the US Midwest.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    monthly spend

    Off the car lot, it's "expenses".

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Retirement hahahahahahaha okay, rich boy.

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