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[–] 74 points 3 weeks ago (31 children)

Such a red flag when someone says they aren't political as a way to avoid speaking their opinions.

They know it's unpopular and will rightfully be called out.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    When I was online dating it was code for, "I don't want to hear your MAGA shit." I dated a lot, and talked to more women than I ended up seeing. I found zero exceptions to that code.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago* (15 children)

    Or, you know, they're tired of talking and hearing about it 24/7.

    Or, they're like me and live in a maga area

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  • [–] 14 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Those are two very different things.

    Someone who says "I'm not very political" in a maga-infused bar because they're afraid of being assaulted for being left-wing isn't really the same as "I'm tired so I'm not going to stand up for my neighbor today"

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    You people are too terminally online.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    I'm sorry but the fucking world seems to be ending. If you declare you're sick of hearing about it, it doesn't put you in the best light.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Some people need to for their mental health. Not everyone is as terminally online as Lemmy users tend to be.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    Absolutely fair point, I'm in no position to lecture anyone on that here on the edge of my sanity. I just think it's dangerous to disregard "politics" because it affects everyone and there are some things you need to see coming so you have enough time to plan and adapt. I have a lot of trauma around safety so I'm probably way more on edge about this kind of thing than most people.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    100% this. Me talking about politics is going to do fuckall where I live. Listening and dealing with it just wrecks my mental health, and for no gain. I vote and encourage/push my friends & family to, but outside of that it's just detrimental.

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  • [–] 22 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    Aren’t we all? Some of us don’t have the luxury of escaping it.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Ok? That doesn't mean that you have to participate in conversations about it.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do, or in this case, say nothing.

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  • [–] 17 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    In a way I see what stabbing is saying, and yeah in magaland its sometimes better to stay quiet and make a difference in other ways without making yourself a target of violence. However, if youre around maga-lite like some folks I know who get angry when they see a rainbow flag, small comments like "why would you care about people being inclusive?" Makes them have the tiniest shred of introspection.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    This. I know a number of people who think of themselves as right wing, but if you actually listen to them their opinions are far more on the left. If you can actually listen to them, understand where they're coming from and show them empathetically who is actually fucking them over, you can do a lot more than if you staunchly refuse to have any contact with them.

    And even questions like yours, although I'd rephrase it as "why does it matter to you?" That focusses the question on them without giving them something else to latch on to distract from the question.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago

    Exactly...i mean full magas are a lost cause. But its the maga lite that occasionally watches fox news and gets news from Facebook that we can maybe save.

    Also youre totally right. They are brainwashed to think they need to fight Demonrats and immigrants and gays, when in reality it's the billionaires we need to fight. Thats why the rih pour billions into dissent and trying to cause infighting. Its disgusting.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago*

    conservatives say that, and another camp, the ones that are totally ignorant of political wont even look or read at news of it, they are probably worst because they are wishwashy on when the time comes who they support. i overheard in a library one time, 1 guy was talking about war/politics to a girl, and she said she doesnt like talking about it, or even read the news about it.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

    That's exactly the problem, though - if they feel like just one part of their opinion being outside the group thing will get them chastised, well there's something wrong there. It has to be possible to disagree with people and still listen to them. Because that's how you get them to listen to you, which is the only real chance you have to change their opinion long term.

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  • [–] 26 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    We’ve been tolerable of the intolerant long enough.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago* (8 children)

    I don't know what you're referring to, I don't remember when we have been particularly tolerant towards people who think differently. This opinion has gotten me at least as much flak a decade or so ago as today in circles like these.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago* (7 children)

    At least in the US, there was a very specific time where we were absolutely too tolerant with the intolerant and that has directly led to our political quagmire now:

    Paradox of tolerance: if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance.

    Failure to punish Confederates after the Civil War created culture of impunity that shields Trump today

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    While the rollback of post Civil War reconstruction and tolerance of violent segregationists is definitely an instance of "tolerance of the intolerant", you should read the article and source material it's quoting more closely, because you're contradicting the entire argument they're making. Here's the quoted passage again, but in full

    [Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.] But we should claim the right to suppress them [intolerant ideologies] if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.

    As usual in political philosophy, the definition of intolerance is stricter and includes an element of rejection by force or imposition. From the passage, the type of intolerance they refer to is the kind that uses force and refuses debate. They even explicitly reject that we should in general "suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies" as long as rational argument & public opinion still govern public choice.

    In that discourse where the philosopher is arguing that a free, open inquiry and rational argument is crucial to an open society, they unsurprising aren't arguing for the suppression of exclusionary opinions. They're arguing for a system of governance that protects freedom of individuals to debate (and denounce) each other.

    So, tolerating segregationist terrorists in the post Civil War is a case of "extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant" as mentioned in the paradox. In contrast, a disagreement with someone who is not imposing their beliefs is not, and the paradox has no bearing.

    Paradox of tolerance has no bearing on disagreements lacking imposition, and is used to defend open discourse, not argue against it.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Which very specific time are you referring to? You just linked to a Wikipedia article on the paradox of intolerance, which even explains how it's not nearly as simple as you present it. And the other article you linked is an opinion piece that shows more of a pattern than a causational relationship.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    I'm clearly referencing the time after the American Civil War when the traitors weren't punished enough.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    ... And there are many years between then and now. I was talking about the last few decades.

    But you know, you have kind of proven my point ITT. You may not be outright chastising anyone, but you're pretty sarcastic with anyone who doesn't agree with you and act like your opinion is the only correct one and anyone with a different one is less than you. People don't like being treated like that, so no wonder they just say "I don't do politics" - because they probably have more self respect than I do.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    It's not my fault that you didn't read my comment that was perfectly clear that the time I was referencing was right after the American Civil War.

    I wasn't being sarcastic despite you reading it that way. You were wrong. Deal with it.

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  • [–] 32 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Exposure to the struggles of other people taught me that while my rights might not be on the chopping block right now, I'm sure as hell in line and the best way to protect myself is to protect those who are in danger now.

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  • [–] 26 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Trans rights are human rights.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Careful, now! Some might misinterpret that as claiming that trans people ARE people, rather than demons whose existence is a threat to the very fabric of reality and also raises gas prices while lowering property values!

    (/s)

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  • [–] 28 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Its not just that, iv had coworkers, teammates, lots of randos who are women, and/or minorities, and/or immigrants, who say the same shit! Oh the president doesnt affect me why should I vote?

    First off, i work for the state, ok pres is federal but bitch why you not voting local?!? Also yes the president does have effects on your life, right down to the money on our check.

    Bahhhh rant over.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    It used to be that the President didn't have a huge effect on our daily lives, but times have changed. For example, I have never seen a President single-handedly fuck up the economy at this speed. It takes some serious fuckups to move this juggernaut of an economy.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    You're talking about the only man in history to lose over 1 billion in 1 year.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago

    what really opened my eyes was working on the executive end of homelessness services. when democrats are in power, there's ample funding and many available grants. when republicans are in power, there is no funding.

    i previously didn't think the funding was as inconsistent as it is, i guess.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I think it's more like "I have no idea how the world around me works, I've never cracked a book I wasn't forced to."

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    There are also disillusioned sorts who were into politics but have decided its a doomed project and that we're all fucked anyway. And that anytime they engage they just destroy themselves socially while everyone else around them socially thrives by being complacent.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    I almost belong to the first group. Overall, I am left of most political spectrums out there, on the edge of “let’s abolish borders and institute UBI”, but I see the world going more and more right and it has been taking away from my motivation. I will still stand up for human rights, but will mostly avoid talking politics unless I have hopes of planting a seed.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago

    There is one party that stands for corruption, racism, and the erosion of democracy. Sure, the other side has its problems too, but that is no excuse for letting authoritarianism run rampant.

    And it’s not even difficult to see what’s happening. The GOP has abandoned even the veneer of decency. At this point, pretending both sides are equally bad isn’t balance. It’s an excuse to look the other way.

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  • [–] 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    They’re the same as centrists. The just don’t want to be criticized for their conservative beleifs.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    "My rights as a human are up in the air every 4 years"

    No. This is called framing. Your rights are up in the air every day.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago

    God this is such a clarifying take. The meme is just 'voting is the most important thing you can do' when it was always narratively a free lottery ticket and now kind of actually resembles a free lottery ticket in other ways. would you buy a free lottery ticket? i would.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    This is a double edged sword. I know a number of people who are in more right wing communities but are more left themselves that try to stay out of politics, as well.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

    What kind of right wing communities are worthy of setting aside one’s own morals in order to belong?

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    I think they mean like, their hometown

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Even more of a reason to talk emphatically and with empathy about these subjects.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Yeah I don’t agree with all out avoidance myself but I can see why some people whose family or community is hard right maga would not be able to safely debate these topics in all aspects of their life.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago

    Maybe not in all aspects of their life, but if they avoid it in every aspect, then there needs to be a reckoning within themselves. If you are quiet in the face of injustice, you are cosigning and supporting the injustice.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Some peoples' rights as a human being are up in the air and they STILL stay out of politics. Or actively support the side trying to remove their rights.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    I only say this when I think the people I'm around are MAGA. Living in Missouri means that's basically everywhere outside of major cities. Like I had no problem talking politics with these 2 people I was with in the film group I'm apart of cause they made it clear they were not conservative. At work though? Yeah I'm doing what I can to not bring it up cause everyone I hear talk there is ultra MAGA.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago

    If only the things we actually wanted were on the voting ballot, and if only the things we voted for actually came true, I would have no problem with the concept of voting, but the way ballots & polls & elections are currently run, the entire system is a joke.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    Or they are exhausted and don't want to take part of yet another purity test. Honestly I don't have the patience to deal with another "Veganism vs honey" screaming match.

    As some say "The left's greatest enemy is another leftist who agrees with them 99% of the time.”

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    I think it's more about not wanting to argue with you

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Preferring an absence of tension over the presence of justice is famously a weak moral position to take.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Or I don't give a shit about your political take while I'm at work lol. Like shit just let me drink my coffee without having to hear your amazing political takes

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    I think it is a difference in culture as well, in this case. Here it is still kind of normal, to avoid talking politics, since it is considered personal, and that in many situations makes it impolite. So it can really be about not wanting to interact, and not just an attempt to hide conservative values.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Well, hiding conservative or any other values, depending on what the general atmosphere at the workplace is.

    Same way it's not a particular political leaning that thinks they are blessing other peoples by insisting on telling them their mindblowing political takes. You get all sorts of people doing that, unfortunately

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I agree. The general athmosphere has been getting steadily worse, in my opinion, likely with social media dividing people more into the extreme ends, which then fight very visibly against each other. This in turn pushes people away from taking part, which makes things look even worse, and more people not wanting to talk about politics at all.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

    For me it's often that the people most vocal about this stuff are people you don't really want to engage with. Kids with the most basic take that's totally amazing and world changing to them or some fuckass racist old people etc. They're the sort of a people who think they're doing you a favour by trying to rope you into an argument with them or that they're making a difference™ with that, so the argument is just them lecturing you.

    No thanks

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    theres 2 camps, for "i dont want o be political", its a conservative saying it, and the other uncommonly its the politically ignorant ones that are mostly dont want to get into any arguments, or if they are mostly of foreign descent and actively avoid any news related to it.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    The person I'd want to show this to would just agree.

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  • I don't consider it politics anymore I just consider it life now

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    What a weird way to spell "everyone should have the same priorities as I do. I'm the most important".

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Get a nuke. It is the only way to get humans to respect your rights.

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  • [+] -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)