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[–] 74 points 2 weeks ago (31 children)

Such a red flag when someone says they aren't political as a way to avoid speaking their opinions.

They know it's unpopular and will rightfully be called out.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    When I was online dating it was code for, "I don't want to hear your MAGA shit." I dated a lot, and talked to more women than I ended up seeing. I found zero exceptions to that code.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 weeks ago* (15 children)

    Or, you know, they're tired of talking and hearing about it 24/7.

    Or, they're like me and live in a maga area

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  • [–] 14 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Those are two very different things.

    Someone who says "I'm not very political" in a maga-infused bar because they're afraid of being assaulted for being left-wing isn't really the same as "I'm tired so I'm not going to stand up for my neighbor today"

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    You people are too terminally online.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    I'm sorry but the fucking world seems to be ending. If you declare you're sick of hearing about it, it doesn't put you in the best light.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Some people need to for their mental health. Not everyone is as terminally online as Lemmy users tend to be.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    Absolutely fair point, I'm in no position to lecture anyone on that here on the edge of my sanity. I just think it's dangerous to disregard "politics" because it affects everyone and there are some things you need to see coming so you have enough time to plan and adapt. I have a lot of trauma around safety so I'm probably way more on edge about this kind of thing than most people.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    100% this. Me talking about politics is going to do fuckall where I live. Listening and dealing with it just wrecks my mental health, and for no gain. I vote and encourage/push my friends & family to, but outside of that it's just detrimental.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    Aren’t we all? Some of us don’t have the luxury of escaping it.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Ok? That doesn't mean that you have to participate in conversations about it.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do, or in this case, say nothing.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    In a way I see what stabbing is saying, and yeah in magaland its sometimes better to stay quiet and make a difference in other ways without making yourself a target of violence. However, if youre around maga-lite like some folks I know who get angry when they see a rainbow flag, small comments like "why would you care about people being inclusive?" Makes them have the tiniest shred of introspection.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    This. I know a number of people who think of themselves as right wing, but if you actually listen to them their opinions are far more on the left. If you can actually listen to them, understand where they're coming from and show them empathetically who is actually fucking them over, you can do a lot more than if you staunchly refuse to have any contact with them.

    And even questions like yours, although I'd rephrase it as "why does it matter to you?" That focusses the question on them without giving them something else to latch on to distract from the question.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago

    Exactly...i mean full magas are a lost cause. But its the maga lite that occasionally watches fox news and gets news from Facebook that we can maybe save.

    Also youre totally right. They are brainwashed to think they need to fight Demonrats and immigrants and gays, when in reality it's the billionaires we need to fight. Thats why the rih pour billions into dissent and trying to cause infighting. Its disgusting.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago*

    conservatives say that, and another camp, the ones that are totally ignorant of political wont even look or read at news of it, they are probably worst because they are wishwashy on when the time comes who they support. i overheard in a library one time, 1 guy was talking about war/politics to a girl, and she said she doesnt like talking about it, or even read the news about it.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

    That's exactly the problem, though - if they feel like just one part of their opinion being outside the group thing will get them chastised, well there's something wrong there. It has to be possible to disagree with people and still listen to them. Because that's how you get them to listen to you, which is the only real chance you have to change their opinion long term.

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  • [–] 26 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    We’ve been tolerable of the intolerant long enough.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (8 children)

    I don't know what you're referring to, I don't remember when we have been particularly tolerant towards people who think differently. This opinion has gotten me at least as much flak a decade or so ago as today in circles like these.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago* (7 children)

    At least in the US, there was a very specific time where we were absolutely too tolerant with the intolerant and that has directly led to our political quagmire now:

    Paradox of tolerance: if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance.

    Failure to punish Confederates after the Civil War created culture of impunity that shields Trump today

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    While the rollback of post Civil War reconstruction and tolerance of violent segregationists is definitely an instance of "tolerance of the intolerant", you should read the article and source material it's quoting more closely, because you're contradicting the entire argument they're making. Here's the quoted passage again, but in full

    [Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.] But we should claim the right to suppress them [intolerant ideologies] if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.

    As usual in political philosophy, the definition of intolerance is stricter and includes an element of rejection by force or imposition. From the passage, the type of intolerance they refer to is the kind that uses force and refuses debate. They even explicitly reject that we should in general "suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies" as long as rational argument & public opinion still govern public choice.

    In that discourse where the philosopher is arguing that a free, open inquiry and rational argument is crucial to an open society, they unsurprising aren't arguing for the suppression of exclusionary opinions. They're arguing for a system of governance that protects freedom of individuals to debate (and denounce) each other.

    So, tolerating segregationist terrorists in the post Civil War is a case of "extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant" as mentioned in the paradox. In contrast, a disagreement with someone who is not imposing their beliefs is not, and the paradox has no bearing.

    Paradox of tolerance has no bearing on disagreements lacking imposition, and is used to defend open discourse, not argue against it.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Which very specific time are you referring to? You just linked to a Wikipedia article on the paradox of intolerance, which even explains how it's not nearly as simple as you present it. And the other article you linked is an opinion piece that shows more of a pattern than a causational relationship.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    I'm clearly referencing the time after the American Civil War when the traitors weren't punished enough.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    ... And there are many years between then and now. I was talking about the last few decades.

    But you know, you have kind of proven my point ITT. You may not be outright chastising anyone, but you're pretty sarcastic with anyone who doesn't agree with you and act like your opinion is the only correct one and anyone with a different one is less than you. People don't like being treated like that, so no wonder they just say "I don't do politics" - because they probably have more self respect than I do.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    It's not my fault that you didn't read my comment that was perfectly clear that the time I was referencing was right after the American Civil War.

    I wasn't being sarcastic despite you reading it that way. You were wrong. Deal with it.

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