Just a little amusing and not that surprising.

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[–] 196 points 1 month ago (49 children)

Lenses flare and motion blur are some of the first setting I turn off in any game.

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  • [–] 143 points 1 month ago (22 children)

    I hate DOF, too. Your eyes aren't a camera, any place you look should be in focus!

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  • [–] 86 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    My eyes will do the blurring on their own, thank you very much. Same goes for motion blur.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yeah we see non blurred only in a ridiculously small portion we look at anyways, IIRC it's in a 3° split angle from the centre (yes you read that correctly, a cone at 3 degrees...).

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    huh? Your eyes absolutely do have limited depth of field just like any camera, and need to focus at a particular distance. Anything as close as your nose will be out of focus, and if you're reading something close, your distant vision will be blurry.

    You usually don't notice it because the focus immediately follows your active attention.

    It looks wrong in games when the game wrongly assumes which item on screen you actually want to be looking at.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    I think you misunderstood what they meant. Like you said, your eyes adjust to have anything you're looking at in focus. This means games shouldn't use DoF because it makes everything not in the center of the screen out of focus. Our eyes can look at anything on the screen, not just the center. Until the game can track our eyes, not the center point, DoF is doing the opposite of what our eyes do. We can only look at one point clearly, instead of seeing anything we look at clearly.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

    I wonder if there's a tech demo somewhere on the Internet of DoF using eye tracking

    edit: huh yeah, here's a video 18 years old. kinda neat https://youtu.be/HdW1v9TPNYw

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Just to back up your edit, the tech has been around for decades. Only really reached consumers properly a couple decades ago, and has had no real adoption beyond the novelty. VR has brought it further into adoption, since you can render things at lower quality where the user isn’t looking. Further development of course depends on the adoption of VR which is slow at best and stagnant at worst.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I feel like this is sort of how foveated rendering works now in VR with eye tracking. Rendering only what's directly in the center of your view at full resolution to reduce the rendering workload and boost performance. Since you're not going to actually view all that a full resolution anyway in your peripheral vision.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveated_rendering

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    It should be a lot harder than foveated rendering. For foveation you need to know the position of the eye, but for dof you need the shape of the lense inside the eye.
    You could try estimating the focus based on what the eyes together point at, but the eyes don't actually focus in perfect match with their stereo vision.

    And then if you do manage to track it, you need to undo the eyes lense too, since it's naturally trying to blur the screen away from being in focus.
    Currently vr just ignores it and the eye just doesn't focus like it naturally would, but if you wanna have say the ability to focus between two overlapping things with the other blurring out of the way, you need that lense input, so you need the eye to focus, so you need to let the lense squeeze while the screen stays in focus.

    Tracking lenses seems so hard I wouldn't be surprised if we get light field displays first. Which sidestep the whole problem and are really the right way to do it. Proper sharpness and blur on a passive screen even without tracking. For a good looking blur you probably only need a handful angular pixels, since you know the exact location the eye is at.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Yeah, VR doesn't need to fake it. Foveated rendering does fake it to an extent, but it's purely at a detriment to image quality, but it's out-of-focus anyway, so that doesn't really matter, but the performance increase does.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Would need (flat surface) holography style screens to really trick the eyes and fully simulate long range depth rather than simulating it. A proper dynamic holographic screen wouldn't even need fancy lenses (unless you need to resize perhaps). Most current light field-ish displays are just doing mirror/prism arrays over pixels, which looks neat at a distance, but don't have the resolution to trick the eye (see: the external eye screen on the Vision Pro).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Ignoring polarization and pretending there's only 3 colors, a light field display should be equivalent given enough resolution.
    A few angular pixels don't give you stereo vision or parallax or anything like that, but if you make them show a "pre blurred" image based on angle you can probably get extremely close to natural out of focus. Basically in the center you present nornal pixels, then off-axis you have pixels that are colored with their own blur applied. So when defocussing, instead of capturing quadratically more angular pixels, you're capturing just a few more that are each averages of what all those pixels would have been.

    This only has any chance of working because the eye is at a known location and defocusses in a known basic way.
    Even then you'd need to account for the physical movement of the pupil when the eye turns, etc. Maybe the lense layer could be shifted in response to keep the angular pixel distribution pointed right.

    There's also the processing problem, you'd need to render way more than is currently done.

    Either way it's nowhere near viable at the moment, should be multiple decades away at minimum.

    PS:
    Technically the 3ds had a light field display with 2 angular pixels. You can get a lot done with low resolution if you force the eyes to be in a specific location.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    If the camera is meant to simulate vision then I'm just not seeing the issue. It would make sense that the center of the character's vision is in focus.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Your eyes wander. They don't just look directly ahead. Directly ahead is not the only thing you're looking at. That's just not how we work. We're constantly scanning around looking at different objects. Sure, DoF accurately simulates looking at exactly where you're facing, but that doesn't accurately simulate the way we look at our environment.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Their point was wherever we look it is in focus, because our eyes adjust, so the game should not blur anything, because if I want to look at trees down the road they shouldn't default to blurry because I'm not at the trees.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    This is part of art direction and the director is trying to focus the viewer's attention on a particular area by utilizing it.

    I understand where you're coming from but utilized well, it is a powerful tool.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    It's a movie technique. Makes sense for cutscenes, not for gameplay.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Look, I do hear you, but when there is a director involved and they want to shape the narrative in a particular direction, then that's one of the tools they have available. It's just what it is.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago
    1. However, your eyes have depth of field view too. Your eyes are actually cameras in that point regard. Look at the monitor, your hand or any object close to you. Focus on it. Notice how the background gets blurry? That's a feature from your eyes and brain to bring stuff into focus.
    2. But besides this fact, even if you would see everything in focus, its does not mean the developers of film scenes (movies or games) shouldn't use DOF as a tool for an artistic expression. It can help bring things in focus in a busy background.
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  • [–] 32 points 1 month ago (18 children)

    What about bloom? That's another instant "turn off" for me.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 month ago (14 children)

    Motion blur, Depth of Field, Bloom, Chromatic aberration.

    Off, Off, Off and Off.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Vignette, Film grain.

    Off, Off.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Film grain and bloom can look nice when used well imo, otherwise absolutely agree.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    There are exceptions to the rules

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I don't know what game this is, but that looks atmospheric af. Very nice.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Ghost of Tsushima has an optional samurai movie mode you can turn on in settings.

    They apply deliberate filters to feel like an old style noir samurai movie and set the dialogue to Japanese. It’s pretty cool, and a fun celebration of that film genre.

    The whole game has an incredible art direction, you can feel the soul and passion that went into it.

    I would recommend Ghost of Tsushima, it’s a top 10 video game experience in my life.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    Depth of field is actually useful though

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Are you thinking Depth of Field or Field of View? DoF just blurs things that the cursor isn't pointing at, which I find obnoxious.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Depth of field, it can give depth to a game. Yeah not every game utilizes it well, but its still a nice feature for adding realism.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Does...does your peripheral blur on you?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    It's mind-blowing that most games still default to motion blur on. Makes me think they're trying to cover up for something.

    Every now and then a game will have it off by default and I'll be like aw yeah. Seems to be happening more often.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah, in quite a few cases (especially a particular generation of console games in which motion blur can't be disabled) it is covering for something. Some effects like TAA work great if the camera doesn't whip around quickly, but can leave some "ghosting" if the camera moves too fast. So motion blur makes the ghosting less visible. Film grain is another one that is sometimes used to hide noise in dynamic light reflections and the like. I'm of the opinion that they look like ass but in some games they do look better than what they're covering up.

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  • [–] 131 points 1 month ago (1 child)
  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I just launched Valheim again and disabling DoF and motion blur were both 'accessibility' settings. Rustled me jimmies good.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    DoF in Valheim is great tho. It cleanly divides the foreground, middle distance, and background, makes LOD features much less obtrusive, and genuinely makes the dense environment scan and visually process better. It is used to both good technical and good artistic effect.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Default setting imo is a bit much. I'd turn it almost all the way down. I'm usually using the top third of the screen to look ahead so DoF can get kind of annoying, since I'm not pointing my crosshair at what I'm looking at.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    It's IMO not the effect itself but how it's used. Way too often game devs use it to mask low FPS and visual artifacts of incompetent graphic pipeline (usually Unreal Engine)

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Issue is motion blur is graphically intensive too so it makes the FPS even worse!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    To large extent yes. But whether or not it's worth it depends on the goal and the type of blur.

    Valve IMO does it correctly in Counter Strike, where very tiny amount of blur is applied to give impression that your 100fps looks like 150fps. I prefer this over framgen tech because pretty much no lag is added.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    I just don't understand why it is usually on by default.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Because it's ✨cinematic✨

    Never mind that you're playing a game, not watching a movie!

    This, and film grain and chromatic abberation, I immediately turn off. And maybe reduce screen shake if it's too high. And increase the FOV because usually it's set low for console gamers on the couch.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    It's only "cinematic" in movies because of limited tech. I made the mistake of watching The Hobbit in HFR. It was only a mistake because I've seen what we could have, but again idiots said no because it's new and different.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Personally I prefer the cinematic muddiness for movies, at least for now. I watched one of the Nolan Batman movies in 60fps hdr and you could see the wires and the winch and other set equipment when they did stunts.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    There needs to be an awkward time. It was the exact same way when higher resolution first took off. I thought the Prestige looked bad because you could see the set work. The high resolution stayed though and they figured out the tricks to make things look good. High frame rate never got that chance

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    In my experience, these are often tuned for the trailer, or tuned for someone watching the game played, rather than tuning it for the player. The game is experienced very differently from those different perspectives, and it's sometimes difficult to keep them all in mind when making a large game.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I really liked when the screen would blur if you were suppressed in bf4. Really made it feel intense and actually gave you a reason to pin down someone with an lmg.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 month ago

    Yeah that and other shell-shock mechanics like the audio fading out and ringing sounds replacing them can be really immersive. But if im just looking left or right I dont want to feel like Im hammered.

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  • [–] 65 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    It's also completely unnecessary. Motion blur is already a product of your brain not being able to keep up with your eyes and you'll get a more natural motion blur without adding fake motion blur when the motion is fast enough.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago

    It's like cool, I'm at home and playing video games drunk and my computer is also drunk.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    If your character is drunk, drugged, or otherwise impaired, yeah load up the motion blur.

    Besides that, I don’t get why it’s there. Stuff just kinda naturally blurs when you turn fast if your eyes can’t keep up. If your eyes can keep up, why would you want it blurry?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    For me, film grain is the worst. I first came across it in Left 4 Dead and I remember thinking "wtf is this trash?"

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    You know you've made me realise I kinda like it but I'm not sure exactly why. Huh.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    The first setting I look for in every game

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Motion blur is great in racing/driving games, but that's largely it. BeamNG.drive added it a couple updates back and it improves the looks a lot in my opinions. Makes speed feel actually fast.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    BeamNG.drive is never going to have huge speed impression because it's actually realistic.

    Racing games cheat in all sorts of ways to make it feel faster than it actually is.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    Have always turned this shit off. Also turn off anything Bloom or similar. And sometimes turn off camera shake too.

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