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[–] 108 points 1 month ago (30 children)

Exactly. Put the fucking shopping carts where they belong! But also don't get onto me for riding it into the coral like a bobsled led by imaginary bears.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Is riding carts autism or just being a kid for life? I still do this and DOS was my first OS...

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (18 children)

    How do the bears exit the cart corral?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (9 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    wouldn't they have to climb over the cart you rode in?

    i mean, i'm sure it's not a problem. bears are agile climbers.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (5 children)

    Even easier: they're imaginary bears, just imagine then outside the corral.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Ah, I see the problem: I'm imagining real bears. I need to imagine imaginary bears.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    If you don't have an imagination within your own imaginations or the imaginations of others, it's time to expand the realm of endless possibilities within your very own imagination!!!!!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    One does not herd bears. One asks bears.

    Think of cats as opposed to dogs.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Is that really a rule, or more of a suggestion?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Wear a shirt that asks that question when I am guiding my cart led by bears into the coral reef corral! I dare you! Heathen! Miscreant! Obsturctor of order! Suggestiquator of squalor! You fool! The coral corral exists for a purpose! How will you navigate the parking lots, nay, STREETS..when they are filled with stray shopping carts! YOU SHANT, AND WE WILL ALL SUFFER FOR YOUR QUESTIONING OF THE ORDER DEMANDED!!!!!

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  • [–] 45 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    sort of tangential, but this discussion reminds me of a recent conversation. we had a plumbing leak recently so we had to have these water damage mitigation guys come out and check all the floors and drywall and figure out what needs to get replaced, yada yada. and they've all got these things they call "moisture meters" which are little black plastic boxes with a digital display on the front, and you hold it against a surface and it shows a number that somehow indicates how much water is absorbed into the material. so I asked one of these guys "hey, how does that work? like what's it actually measuring?" and he gave a response that sounded in tone like a technical explanation, but the actual information essentially boiled down to "it tells you how much water is in there, and if it's above 20 it's bad." and I'm thinking like, yeah, I got that, I figured that out from hearing you call it a "moisture meter" and watching you use it for ten seconds. is that what you thought I was confused about? obviously I mean like, what quantity does the number represent; what are the units; what physical thing is being measured to generate that number; is it based on a physical property, a thermal property, chemical, electrical; you're using it the same on wood, drywall, carpet, insulation, how does it apparently treat all materials the same when they have different physical properties and absorb, hold, and release water in different ways? it just baffled me that I could have all these questions less than a minute after seeing one for the first time, but this guy who uses one professionally every day only needs to know water>20=bad

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago

    Spent a few minutes researching because I was almost sure it was just measuring resistance but that is different depending on materials.

    They measure moisture by using a scale of wood equivalent moisture. Basically no matter what you stick it in, the pins measure resistance across the probes and give a number as an equivalent reading for sticking them in wood that is wet. Apparently wood is pretty consistent about resistance regardless ofof what type of wood it is. And since American houses are primarily made of wood, we only care about how wet the wood in a home could be.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    How curious is the average person about the inner workings of a phone while using one? Most of the time people just need to know how to use tools, rather than the specifics of how they work.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Not really the same situation. Knowing how that box works is the difference between being confident the person trying to sell you on home repairs is an expert or just some guy with a box designed to scare rubes into buying more shit. I don't need to know exactly how my phone works because all it's doing is taking calls and browsing the web. If it had some app that was measuring something to try and sell me shit, I would want to understand how that worked before I bought into it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    You were sold the phone. How did you know it would do what you needed before buying it? You didn't try to understand it, you looked at reviews or just put blind trust in the company that they know enough about how it works.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I do have a general idea of how phones work so maybe I'm not the person to ask but a phone costs hundreds of dollars. Fixing water damage is going to be $1000s. It's not the same level of risk. And yes you can look at reviews and the specs on their website before purchasing. If you're really interested you can watch someone on YouTube take it apart and see how it's constructed.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I once was doing some it support trainee work on some education facility. Their old it manager retired while i was there and whole it support thing was outsourced to some external company. They probably knew their shit well enough but still i had to explain some things about office 365 to them (i hadnt even used 365 properly before that ) and i felt that i knew some things better than them. Yet they were the ones getting paid.

    They were probably better qualified to do the job in general, but still in my opinion some random trainee shouldnt know more about anything than PAID professional who is supposed to take care of everything. Though I also head from them that they are quite well worked and have to work on MANY sites and basically are not allowed to make mistakes, so maybe there was that too. Seemed really stressful to work for that company.

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  • [–] 79 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    oh thaaat's why I have a fundamental need to explain the reasons why when detailing a process to someone

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  • [–] 46 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    And I've found that most people do not care, they just want marching orders. Like, I'm not here to give you orders. This is what the goal is, this is how it's currently done, this is why we do it that way. They want to commit "how it's currently done" to rote memory.

    And then the first (and second, and third, etc) time something does not go as planned, they're stopped in their tracks. Context was rejected, preventing understanding, leaving little framework for the unexpected.

    So they ask me to tell him how to fix it. Well, I don't know how to fix it. This hasn't happened before. I do not have a step by step committed to memory. But I can probably figure it out if you give me a few minutes. There, should be good now.

    "Jeez, I didn't want you to do it for me, why can't you just tell me how to do it?"

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  • [–] 59 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Hahahaha. That's not "autism". That's just "normal". Right?

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  • [–] 42 points 1 month ago (4 children)
  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 29 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Relevant story:

    I worked in a pharmacy during COVID. Once vaccine supply balanced out to the point we could take walk-ins, we were told by corporate that even if someone was walking in without an appointment, we were to go into the system and make them an appointment for the current date and time. To clarify, this is a separate system than what bills insurance, notifies doctors, documents the vaccine etc. It's just an appointment system.

    Dumb rule. Stupid. Did not follow it for weeks because we were busy, y'know, administering vaccines and dispensing medications.

    Until I found out why we were supposed to do it...

    This was the vaccine that you got one dose of, then a follow up dose ~6 weeks later. When you book an appointment, it automatically schedules the followup appointment and notifies the patient when it's coming up, helping us not get slammed with walk-in appointments and the patient not forget their second dose.

    From that point on, I was adamant that appointments be made for every vaccine with multiple doses.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago

    The problem is that all the rules contradict each other in one way or another. If you know the reason for the rule, then you know which ones take precedence in each situation. Otherwise, you're just making arbitrary choices on which ones to follow and which to break, and if you can just arbitrarily break a rule with no obvious consequences, then why bother ever following it?

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I genuinely thought that was everyone. Who just follows bullshit roles that lack substance or explanation - oh, right.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I have a hard time believing its not everyone because it makes zero sense to me why you wouldnt think through something critically.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I think this is the great pandemic. I don’t know if I have a skewed world view, but so many people are in survival mode all the time that they don’t have the time to think about these things where those with autism don’t have the option not to.

    I don’t think that these people want to live like ostriches, but I they’re so preoccupied with our current state of things that the energy and time simply aren’t available.

    Having some time to sit quietly and consider your situation is a luxury few can afford.

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  • [–] 85 points 1 month ago (21 children)

    This isn't a neurodivergent thing. It's an intelligent / ethical person thing.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Couldn't agree more. I do not follow arbitrary rules unless compelled to, as long as it doesn't harm anyone or anything. If you want me to do something, there needs to be a logical reason for me to do it

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I generally follow the rules unless I have a reason not to. The rationale is that just because I don't see the reason for the rule doesn't mean there isn't one. If everyone ignored every rule they didn't understand the need for the world would be even more of a shit show.
    So I stop at the stop sign when no one is around. I know I would only do it when it was safe, but so does everyone who got hit by a car running a stop sign at a blind corner in the middle of the night.

    I'm definitely asking about it if it's the least bit inconvenient though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Most of the time most rules are really arbitrary, actually.

    Especially regarding table etiquette, or things as social etiquette. Why should I sit in a way or another at the table while eating or use spoons, knives, and forks in one way or another, even if those aren't the most comfortable ways for me, just because that's the rule? Why should I look people always to the eyes? That won't make communication better or easier, and just will be hurtful to me (literally, I can suffer from headaches, nausea, cold sweat, stomach aches, and other symptoms of severe social anxiety).

    The problem with acritical rule following is that it will make you more prone to do bad things if a rule tells you to do so, just because "that's what the rules say".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Alright, but I didn't say not to uncritically follow rules. I said I follow rules unless I have a reason not to.
    From what you said it sounds like you have a reason.

    I was also pretty clearly talking about rules of greater consequence than table manners or conversational etiquette. I don't typically put things like traffic law in the same category of table etiquette.

    It's a pretty big stretch to go from "I don't put my feet on the table at dinner" to "the rules required me to do bad things and I did it because those are the rules".

    Finally, there's a reason for most rules of etiquette and manners, you just don't know what they are or care. That's fine in the end, I don't typically follow all rules of etiquette either because I'm lazy. If someone invites me to their fancy dinner though then I'll put a napkin on my lap, keep my elbows off the table and eat with the right fork at the right time. Not because it's the rules but because I want the persons fancy dinner to be as nice as they hoped. I'll follow a rule of etiquette because I care about someone else.

    But I never said or implied that anyone should follow rules without thinking.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Yeah, I've noticed a real problem on here with that. Claiming neurodivergency for something that some people do and some people don't.

    This is a trait that some people have. Some people do it more and some do it less. If it's combined with many other symptoms and it makes it difficult for someone to function in society then it might be grounds for a diagnosis.

    I think things like this are also just representative of a general shift in society. There's a lot more education online and elsewhere about the power dynamics in society that might have been ignored or not understood in the past. So this behavior is more prevalent which coincides with an increase in neurodivergency even though those two things aren't actually correlated.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I don't think it's necessarily "a problem on here", I think this type of assertion is just part of exploring neurodivergency.

    Does something really need to make it difficult for someone to function in society in order to be part of a diagnosis? That seems unlikely.

    I disagree that this is an "intelligent / ethical person thing", although I don't really believe that intelligence and ethics is really measurable in that way.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago

    Yes. It does need to make it difficult to function. That's one of the core criteria for most diagnoses in the DSM. "Neurodivergency" as a meme and - I guess you can call it a subculture? - on the internet is wholly misunderstood.

    It's really hard to categorize neurodivergency. Particularly in contrast to being "neurotypical". There isn't an "average human" that they compare people to on a chart and say "yep, you're not up to this standard" gavel bang "autism".

    I mean, just think about it. If more than 50% of people exhibited this trait in one way or another, this behavior suddenly becomes neurotypical, since the "typical" person possesses this trait.

    But the problem with this, just like your problem with intelligence and ethics is that it's all impossible to measure. Behaviors like this exist on a spectrum. This is part of my problem with this aspect of the subculture and posts like this. This behavior happens in "neurotypicals" as well. Autism isn't a switch flipped in your brain that suddenly gives you special traits that neurotypical people don't have. Autism is a diagnosis that happens when a person has a defined constellation of traits that are generally correlated and one or more of which are making it difficult to function.

    I saw another post recently that went something like "neurotypicals don't understand having to take a day off after social events" and "neurotypicals don't rehearse social interactions in their head". Which is simply untrue. Many many people take a rest day after a social event or think about how to handle a social interaction, the only difference that the behavior isn't so severe that they are functionally impaired by it.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Being that literal about a meme is something not all autistic folks do, and some allistic folks do, but it is still an autism trait. Like the rules thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I feel like you grasped a straw here and it really didn't work. Even if I can parse out the point you're trying to make, it still just affirms my point? But I'm not sure I even got what you were trying to say.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Plenty of stupid unethical rules have detailed explanations.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    The tweet misunderstands autism (And vaguely calls it 'nuerodivergence'). Questioning rules in autism is, at least in my own experience, more about justice than merely understanding why the rule is. We're not asking why for the logic, we're asking why to make sure it's just. You don't usually loudly disobey an unjust rule unless you're making a stand, you do it quietly without acknowledgement because people who enforce unjust rules tend to be vindictive and cruel about it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago*

    Yeah I agree.

    I'm autistic, have a sense of justice being the result of reasonable clear fair and as objective as possible rules being consistently followed...

    ... but you don't need to be autistic to adhere to that. You can be ethical, moral, hold yourself to a standard, determine the reasonability of said standard, without being autistic.

    Also... neurodivergence is more broad than just autism.

    ADHD is a form of neurodivergence. On its own, I don't see that as being inherently relevant to rule comprehension, consideration or adherence, beyond maybe more complex rules or contingent rulesets taking more effort/exposure/practice to understand, consider or adhere to.

    Schizophrenics are neurodivergent. Their ruleset often frequently changes considerably, due to reasons they often cannot explain coherently, and/or the rules they'll tell you they follow can be incoherent/contradictory.

    DID is a form of neurodivergence. Each different identity often has its own significantly distinct ruleset / approach to rules.

    Being bipolar is arguably a form of neurodivergence. Such people essentially have two rulesets that they alternate between.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago

    Well yeah, there are only two kinds of rules:

    1. The right way to do things
    2. Stupid bullshit that serves no purpose

    If you can't at least give a basic reasoning for the rule, it's #2

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I agree with others in this thread, this has more to do with ethics and critical thinking than with nuerodivigence. And that nuerodivergence seems to be getting conflated here with autism, specifically.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    So the neurodivergent folk converge on it? This rule of thumb makes no sense to me.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Posts like this make me think I'm autistic but I think I'm too old to get tested. I don't really care anyway. I'm probably "high functioning" enough.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 month ago

    If you don't have a good damned reason, then fuck your rule. Do you have any idea how many rules exist simply because it favoured one group or person over others? And now we're stuck living with it? Question all the rules. Many of them are selfish bullshit. Like this new everyone has to use AI, or OSs needing photo ID to function, or why rich people get to avoid prison for their numerous rule breaking crimes, even become president FFS.

    Rules need to be wise or they shouldn't be followed and I'm not trusting most ppls opinions of whether they are wise or not.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Neurodivergent people are not a monolith.

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