As the baby boomer bubble pushes into its eighties, we are driving into a demographic wall.

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[–] 86 points 1 month ago (7 children)

Or you can view it as living in a system which may, and often does, compel all of us to eventually visit potentially deadly violence on someone else.”

I was just Watching Dead to me, which is a show about good people doing horrible things, and two of the three seasons settle on accidentally killing someone with a car.

That is to say the question "how do we have a character remain sympathetic after they've killed someone?" is "easy! we'll put them behind the wheel!"

Just as the question,"How do we make this bank-robbing villain sympathetic?" is answered by "make them have to pay for their child's treatable illness."

We could build a better society just around making writers' jobs more difficult.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I laughed aloud at "We could build a better society just around making writers' jobs more difficult."

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  • [–] 25 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    yes, my 84 yr old mother, had a stroke in her eye and lost most of her sight in that eye, still drives no matter me telling her often not to. How she keeps her license seems to revolve around Doctor shipping, as the oldies all know the doctor to go to to get their license renewed.

    She'd never take public transport if it was at her door, so you'd need something better than just good public transport, like banning everyone over 75.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    A sane person would think this could maybe help encourage people to push for bus routes

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Perfect age for running a fucking country. Hire them to the US gov immediately. They'll fit right in.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

    Japanese dashcam videos are a preview of what horrors to come.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    Japan has passenger trains.

    It will be much worse.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    I don't think it's the train drivers but the passengers, especially come rush hour where the squeeze can be awful at the big Tokyo stations.

    And yeah, level crossings can also be dangerous for drivers with poor perception and timing, they'll just try to drive through thinking they can beat the train.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I meant: Japanese people can just take the train when they're too old to drive themselves, the coverage for passenger services isn't bad.

    In the USA even if you don't want to drive anymore, if no one can drive you you have no other way to get around in most places… so many more people drive and will keep driving.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Japanese people can just take the train

    Given the rate of how many railway lines in Japan are being closed year after year due to falling ridership and increasing operational costs, buses and busways are supplanting the railways, and even then their timetables are also limited. Which leaves either an informal taxi service or caregivers having to do the driving for them, if they cannot be convinced to move to a care facility.

    As I said in another comment elsewhere, the increasing frequency of accidents involving elderly drivers in Japan have become a serious talking point among Japanese, the popular consensus being the idea of placing more restrictions to such drivers, such as more driving examinations and how long before those drivers are no longer licensed to drive.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Japanese dashcam videos are a preview of what horrors to come.

    Throwing down a terrible stereotype here, which in my 60+ years, has turned out to be more true than not, ..but older Japanese men and women are notoriously bad drivers.. esp. the old men in hats.

    Holy hell, do not EVER wear a hat when you drive. It sucks the ability to control a car right out of you.. God's honest, I have seen that one play out over decades and it's frightening and it's real and I do not know why.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    It is not just a boomer thing.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 month ago* (7 children)

    You're absolutely right. I have a whole long list of specific health issues that mean I absolutely should not be driving, but holy hell, the amount of people (of all ages) pressuring me to get a license like I'm just lazy or refusing to 'grow up and become an adult' is BONKERS!

    These are people that see how extremely often and ridiculously I full-on run into or sideswipe things while walking. They see how often I pass out, or my vision goes black. They want me behind the wheel of a speeding two ton death machine!? Car culture is wild.

    I do feel awful being a burden on those around me who can drive, though. We don't have any public transportation or a walkable city (not that I can walk far anyway, lol.) Trust me; if I could drive, I fucking would!

    Also... Both my parents have seizures (that are NOT under control) and continue to drive, even though they definitely shouldn't. My father has had them while driving and woke up in a ditch multiple times. They're not boomers, either.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I met a ~26yo girl who told me I wasn't in the same stage of life as her because I didn't have a car....

    By any other capitalistic metric, I was more "advanced" in life... But I didn't have a car 😱 (comparing money is dumb, just making a point)

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately, in american culture, to a lot of people "having a car" means "being grown up" and "not having a car" means "not being grown up."

    It's a childish mentality really, and indicates that that 26 year old hadn't done any "growing up" in approximately a decade.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Do these people not realize that there are in fact standards that prevent people with certain health problems from driving?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Only if their doctors report it or it's painfully obvious at the DMV, from my understanding. We live in a very backwards Trump-ian red state where being able to drive - even if they obviously should not to any reasonable person - is seen as their 'God-given constitutional right!' like with guns. Especially since there's no public transportation here. They're more worried about the inconvenience to the person needing their license taken away ('how are they gonna get to their doctors or their pharmacy for the treatment they need for their conditions?') than they are about the innocent people they may take out when they start seizing or mix up the pedals on their drive to their doctors office. It's a whole weird solipsistic cultural thing that I find difficult to explain.

    Like, me? I obviously should not be driving, like mentioned in my previous comment (for more reasons than I listed.) I recognize that and don't want to hurt others (which is considered weird here,) so I don't. But I guaran-fucking-tee you I could get my license easily if I tried and I couldn't see my doctors doing the work to get it taken away from me.

    There's also plenty of people who have had their licenses taken away - whether for medical reasons or DUIs or too many traffic violations - but still drive... Also super common here.

    Sorry this reply is so long 😅 it's something I feel strongly about + my brain is broken, like I mentioned, so I ramble, lol. 😅

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    Nah, I appreciate your comment. It's hard when the answer to "should this person be driving" is 'maybe,' when they're right on the edge like that. That's something I don't have experience with because I became unable to drive quickly enough that I couldn't even if I wanted to.

    I definitely relate to your feeling of "why would I want to put other people in danger" though. I stopped driving long before I technically had to because I didn't want to be unsafe.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago* (5 children)

    The world they created for themselves. Stupid shits.

    I know exactly one boomer that supports public transit over cars.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    No... the boomers were born and it was already that way. Could you please re-evaluate your knee-jerk hatred and maybe get some historical understanding? When was the car invented? When were highways built? How old were the boomers then?

    JFC

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  • [+] 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah those Boomers really were the ones voting for redlining, the Eisenhower Interstate system, and bulldozing minority neighborhoods for freeways. Sure were a lot of Boomers running things in the 50s and 60s when these were at their height...

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Interesting, I am one of those boomers. my insurance runs out Monday and I am selling my vehicle. This is by choice as I am going blind. I absolutely refuse to be one of those old farts that kills people by driving because they want a pack of smokes or some candy.

    My scooter arrives in 2 weeks. I already have my pirate flag, and lots of cool stickers ready for it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Hopefully! As a joke I was going to put my dash cam on it. I want to see confused people looking. Also wrote the scooter salesman on Friday asking if there was a snow plow option. Can’t wait for his reply.

    Here is the scooter I am getting.

    https://www.pridemobility.com/pride-mobility-scooters/victory-10-4-wheel/

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    This fucking terrifies me. My mom is 79, living in the most rural place ever, wtf is she gonna do when she has to give up her license? P.s. if anyone else has been in this situation what did you do?

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    If you live somewhere that you have to drive to take care of yourself and you can no longer drive, you can no longer take care of yourself.

    You move to where you can either take care of your self or be taken care of.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    This is correct, but moving costs money. Which my mom doesn't have any of, and I have little to spare. It's going to be a big issue when she's not able to take care of herself

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    You two should be discussing this now.

    She will need to sell her house and car and a chunk of her belongings and move in with you or on the same street or apartments or whatever. She needs to decide what to sell and what to give to whom, now while she still has her faculties and mobility.

    When you get old, you're doing good until you aren't and then you never are again. You two should have a plan that you can just execute.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately our relationship isn't great and we are pretty estranged. My husband and I live in a 2 bedroom condo with one bathroom, small even for just us two and our cats. So she can't move in with us. My sister is no contact with her. So yeah. The situation is messy.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Oh, well in that case let her figure it out. My parents kicked me out at 18, and at this point I wouldn't talk to them if they attempted to reach out. I worry that they might, confronting death or needing physical daily assistance. I hope for their sake that they have whatever they need to do, planned out already.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    There aren't a lot of options here.

    Either a church/neighbors take turns taking care of her

    Her family takes care of her

    Or she moves somewhere where she can walk/cab/state assisted transport to where she needs to go.

    The US has shit for elderly safety nets.

    I would assume if she's that close to the wire she doesn't own her own house she could sell and is already taking advantage of whatever welfare is available to make sure she doesn't end up in a ditch.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    My dad stopped driving at 80 but he remained living on the farm.
    If he needed to go somewhere, there was always a neighbor happy to help out.

    Dad went to the car dealership and spent $10k on a reasonably good 2nd hand car that he never drove - it would only get used if he needed someone to drive him somewhere.

    Using his own car that he pays all the running costs and maintenance on made it much more comfortable for him to ask a neighbor/friend/family for help.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago

    Who could have possibly seen this coming??

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    If we had robust public transport for everyone, this wouldnt be as big an issue.

    Dont forget that it is not generation vs generation, its the 1% vs the working class.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    And a friendly reminder that boomers own far more than billionaires and as such are very much invested in the system. Your poverty allows them retirement.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    You're not wrong but let's start addressing wealth concentration with the trillionaire, and billionaires first. A lot of boomers may be millionaires but the difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars is a billion dollars.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I love it in when so called leftists ignore the huge petite bourgeoisie class that has voted for more and freer capitalism for decades. Sure, just ignore class traitors. I'm sure it will work out.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    In what fucking world is it ok to avoid jail because you're fucking old. If she's too old to go to jail then we need an option to euthanize elderly criminals.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Same ever since automobiles appeared. They'll just be more old fuckers on the road nowadays. Insurers are salivating over all of the future claims they can deny.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    To an extent that's already the case...

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The Price Of Freedom is about to go up steeply

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    At around 84, my dad caused a small fender-bender, that's when my sister told him he had to stop driving. He couldn't turn his head to see behind him. That sucked for my sister, because it fell on her to get him out of the house for grocery shopping, etc. She was the only one who still lived in the same state. He ended up in an assisted living home for the last two years of his life with dementia.

    Public transportation is great, but they don't go into the suburbs. I suppose Uber and Lyft are the solution there, but my dad had no idea how to do that, he didn't own a cell phone.

    Capitalism has been fucking us hard for over 100 years, the offenses keep piling up, and only now are people starting to realize how bad it's gotten.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Public transportation can absolutely go into the suburbs. In fact, I think it should. Every time they have tried to extent a tram line or set up some light rails, people protested because "not in my backyard" and "everyone will just go to the city, this place will be deserted". Every time they actually went through, the suburb became more sought after and local commerce actually increased.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Public transportation is great, but they don't go into the suburbs. I suppose Uber and Lyft are the solution there,

    No, not living in the suburbs is the solution here

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Eh, probably, but it's a lot to ask of someone in their declining years to move away from everything and everyone they know, especially if dementia is a factor. It'd be different if families stayed close, but so many older adults don't have anyone nearby. They should be moving in with their kids. But their kids are overburdened, over scheduled and underpaid. And not all of them voted to keep it that way...but...

    Anyway it's different from person to person, but it rarely seems to be simple.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    My dad (and his wife) are still about 10 years away from addressing the problem of needing people to drive them, but when the time comes I won't mind pitching in driving them places. We do that currently for my wife's grandparents, who, to their great credit, gave up driving because they knew they were getting too old; they even kept their car so that whoever was helping them drive places wouldn't take on the expense of using their own car.

    Back to my dad and his wife, there are three of us children (six between them) within 45 minutes of them, and another two within 2 hours. Problem is they are talking about picking up and moving literally to the other coast 3,000 miles away. The sixth child (hers) lives on that coast, but still eight hours away from where they bought property.

    We're currently in California, so they are tempted by the difference in property values, which I can see making sense on paper. Of course, it doesn't work in reverse, once you sell in California, you can't buy your way back in. You've spent that equity. And when you leave behind the entirety of your support system to save $300 per month, what's the plan?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago
    [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    🎶 Take two down, they blindly crash around, sixty-nine million nine hundred ninety-nine thousand nine hundred ninety-eight Boomers to go! 🎵

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    This describes my hometown to a tee. Thirty years ago.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    My 95 year old mother in law picked me up at the airport and still goes golfing each week pushing her clubs around the golf course. I trust her than most kids on the road. However, She is much different than my 80 year old mother where the doctor took away her handicap pass because she kept hitting cars in the parking lot.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    People don't want to accept it, but we really should be testing drivers more frequently. We don't, cuz car brain society, but we should.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Should tie it to retirement age. Once you no longer need to get to your job every day, get tested more often. Plus people often start losing mental clarity when they no longer have anything to keep them occupied and for many that's their jobs.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I was picking up a some medication at the drugstore when an old frail man came in and stepped into the line. Quickly a middle-aged woman who works there says "Welcome back Fred! Haven't seen you in a couple of weeks! Are you okay?" The guy says back "yeah, I'm, I'm okay..... But my truck isn't, I totalled my truck!". The layday goes " oh no! That's terrible! So how did you get here? " the guy says " my chofer brought me in to get my medications".... Lady " your chofer? ". The guy points a little past my direction and from that end here comes the skinniest, frailest old lady you can imagine " yeah, I brought him in, but I'm. Not his chofer! Not by a long shot. Is this your girlfriend? "..... Blah blah blah... Holy shit, they let people like that drive by themselves! Great for them, but you and I drive on the same road! Our kids wait for the bus on the same road. Maybe the country just needs to pass the " free driver law". You hit 60 and you get a driver code. You go to a site or call a number, enter the code and wait for your driver. Free government paid service. A normally aged person between 15 and 60 years of age then takes you and a few other friends around the places you need to go to.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    They'll either move into homes or be cared for by family, same as it has been for decades.

    Sure they'll kill some people before their kids take their keys...

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