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[–] 101 points 1 month ago (16 children)

Is he afraid he could become the next target of an investigation/warrant of the ICC?

Anyhow the world is changing very quickly and nowadays not doing business with the united states or not using the dollar, is less and less of a problem.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Anyhow the world is changing very quickly and nowadays not doing business with the united states or not using the dollar, is less and less of a problem.

    While I agree on the surface, these sanctions also include any American companies. You can’t use most email providers, because most are based in the US. You can’t use any debit or credit cards, because MasterCard and Visa are both American companies that will block your access. You can’t use any cloud storage providers, because they’re all American. You can’t have a Google account for your phone. You can’t even use a Microsoft account to log into your Windows PC.

    And sure, lemmings will say that all of those are good things. We’re happy in our little “self-host everything, delete all the cloud accounts, avoid being tracked by any means possible, etc” bubble. But the average person barely even knows how to open a web browser, and panics when their password needs to be reset.

    It basically forces you to live as a Luddite, because the vast majority of the internet, modern banking, etc will (at least tangentially) touch American commerce in some way. And the average person isn’t even close to being well-enough prepared for that kind of upheaval.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Is he afraid he could become the next target of an investigation/warrant of the ICC?

    Not likely. The ICC rarely targets government officials from rich/Western countries, because it knows perfectly well how that'll turn out.

    Also, the US is not a signatory to the Rome Statute, meaning the US is under no obligation to act on warrants or investigations issued by the ICC.

    He would have to step foot in a country that is, and one that respects its obligations towards the ICC.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago

    That's a little narrow, it's also been shit at holding anybody with Veto power accountable, including China, France, UK, USA, and USSR/Russia. It's also failed in nations like Lybia under Muammar Gaddafi (and even now) and Sudan during the civil war.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (10 children)

    No, he's not afraid of that because the US is not a party of the ICC and the American Service Members Protection act prohibits US courts, agencies, entities of state or local government from cooperating with the ICC and further

    The President is authorized to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court.

    The definitions of the people described in subsection b are:

    1. COVERED ALLIED PERSONS.—The term ‘‘covered allied persons’’ means military personnel, elected or appointed officials, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the government of a NATO member country, a major non-NATO ally (including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Argentina, the Republic of Korea, and New Zealand), or Taiwan, for so long as that government is not a party to the Inter-national Criminal Court and wishes its officials and other persons working on its behalf to be exempted from the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.

    (4) COVERED UNITED STATES PERSONS.—The term ‘‘covered United States persons’’ means members of the Armed Forces of the United States, elected or appointed officials of the United States Government, and other persons employed by or working on behalf of the United States Government, for so long as the United States is not a party to the International Criminal Court.

    Anyone who assisted the investigation or arrest by supplying information or funding would be breaking US law.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

    Israel isn't a member of the ICC but there is still a warrant out for Bibi. Member countries have to abide by the rules of the court. So if Trump travels to France, he can be arrested, even though the US is not a member

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    The Netanyahu arrest warrant is controversial because of the jurisdiction issue.

    Here's what Wikipedia says about the ICC's jurisdiction:

    The ICC can generally exercise jurisdiction in cases where the accused is a national of a state party, the alleged crime took place on the territory of a state party, or a situation is referred to the Court by the United Nations Security Council.

    If Israel is not a state party to the ICC, there are two remaining possibilities that I can see:

    • the court is acting on referral from the UNSC (I haven't heard of such a thing, and it seems like the US would veto).
    • the court is claiming that Palestine is a state party to the court. In order to make this claim, one must first also establish that Palestine is a state.

    And in fact, France took the position that it would not enforce the warrant because the court lacks jurisdiction.

    EDIT: I finally found a source on the ICC's position on this jurisdiction question. The ICC ruling is that the state of Palestine signed onto the Rome Statute in 2015, and the ICC accepted Palestine's membership in 2021. And that this gives ICC jurisdiction within the territory of the West Bank and Gaza going back to 2014.

    The 2021 court ruling explicitly determined that Palestine is a state.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    And in fact, France took the position that it would not enforce the warrant because the court lacks jurisdiction.

    The article says France says it's about jurisdiction, but specifically about the idea that a head of state has diplomatic immunity.

    If Israel was a signatory that argument couldn't apply because they would have agreed to be subject to the ICC.

    Eta more context: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/11/28/why-france-offered-netanyahu-concessions-over-icc-arrest-warrant_6734435_4.html

    According to corroborating sources, this statement was meant to avoid severing ties with the Israeli prime minister, who contested the role of mediator claimed by Paris in the search for a hard-fought ceasefire in Lebanon, announced on Tuesday evening by Joe Biden and Emmanuel Macron.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    And in fact, France took the position that it would not enforce the warrant because the court lacks jurisdiction.

    That same article says that they are required to enforce it

    Is Netanyahu immune from the ICC arrest warrants as France claims? No.

    And says

    The French argument appears to centre around Article 98 of the Rome Statute.....Some 124 countries have ratified the Rome Statute, but Israel is not a signatory.

    It's funny that France says Israel hasn't signed onto the ICC and is therefore immune based of the Rome Statute...but Israel hasn't signed onto the Rome Statute either, so it doesn't apply.

    Regardless of France's pussyfooting, the ICC says that members have an obligation to adhere to the warrants.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I mention not being a party to the ICC to introduce the US law that makes supporting the ICC illegal. If Trump was arrested, he could expect military intervention.

    If it was France who arrested him, they could expect that the US would revisit the exception to section 2007, which allows NATO to exist. Otherwise, military assistance to nations that are party to the ICC is prohibited (with a few other exceptions listed).

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Anyone who assisted the investigation or arrest by supplying information or funding would be breaking US law

    Well "US Law" means nothing these days... it's down there with "thoughts and prayers" and "no, that dress doesn't make you look fat"

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I don't follow your argument. I think you are saying the current government does not respect US law in their quest to achieve their goals. If their leader was arrested, do you think they would just be chill about it?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I'm pretty sure the same applies for Russia and Israel, and yet the ICC is after their presidents for breaking "other laws".

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    The warrant for Putin is with respect to crimes in Ukraine. Ukraine is not a member, but gave authorization to the ICC to investigate certain crimes, and agreed to cooperate.

    The warrant for Netanyahu is via Palestine, who is a member.

    The Rome Statute makes activities in signatory nations part of their jurisdiction, which is part of the reason the law I mentioned was enacted.

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  • [–] 64 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Israel and Russia really have him by the balls don't they?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago

    The approach towards the Netanyahu warrant is no change to US policy and law which explicitly lists Israeli government officials as an "covered allied person" who the US can use "all means necessary" to free from detainment or imprisonment by the ICC. It prohibits "support" of the ICC which includes provision of services.

    So that predated Trump by quite a bit.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    honestly, he is so dumb they may have just buttered him up a bit

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  • [–] 62 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    So here in 2026, The US and Israel MUST be allowed to rape children and commit war crimes.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 month ago

    Criminals sanctioning justice

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago*

    Sweeping sanctions could prohibit the court from carrying out transactions in dollars, cutting it off from the global financial system and drastically undermining its work

    If only there was some other currency it could use such as the Euro or British Sterling which are also widely used worldwide.

    Any entity-wide sanctions imposed by the U.S. Treasury would prohibit U.S. citizens and companies from providing funds, goods, or services to the court

    I'm not seeing that as a problem as any government or organisation outside of the USA is already looking to reduce or eliminate entirely reliance on US tech,funding, goods and services.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago

    Why are these people afraid of the International Criminal Court? Are they international criminals? 🤔

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    That warrant was created 2+ years ago. This seems a bit delayed.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    What's ge gonna do? Rename it?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    "And that's why today I've put a 5000% tariff on the ICC. Nasty people. And they are banned from my press conferences too."

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I hope he kicks the UN out of the headquarters in New York and they say "you can't fire us, we quit"

    Or he threatens to rename the UN unless they give into his demands and they say "that's funny, go away, grown-ups are talking"

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    Hello Americans! It's totally normal for innocent people to avoid their day in court. No red flags at all.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago

    And it may be a matter of time we hear about a 'Trump arrest warrant' for bombing Iran illegally and speaking flippantly with threats against the ICC.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Flappity flap, always talks crap.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago
    [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    He would have to sanction the countries that support the ICC

    It is the secondary sanctions that have the bite

    That is like the definition of a great depression

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Wow. An international criminal protecting his international criminal blackmailer friend. Who woulda thunk?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    the esptein class flock together.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago*

    A lot of the far right really hate Netanyahu, including some MAGA, so it will be interesting to see how this goes with them.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Can they issue one against Trump as well?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Once again proving the US is not a sovereign nation.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Pretty sure Trump could be added to the arrest list. If they're gonna be threatened, what's stopping them from adding him?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Send trump. I don’t think we would give enough of a shit to invade anymore.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    This is fascism. The United States is now a fascist country. If you didn't vote, or made some third party protest vote, you voted for fascism. Now there's no going back.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    We have literal days out till the next voting cycle, please let's just do everything in our power to ensure everyone is properly registered, especially people in states without grace period registration like Mississippi and Alabama. Thank you for taking the time in understanding that most red states are actually just rigged purple states who make it as hard to vote as possible in order to suppress voter turnout. We can beat fascism, we just have to have more group coordination, less splitting over certain issues, and remember that if we all vote midterms all the time eventually more citizens will start taking every election seriously.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I live in a red state, and Id like to share what is done here to make sure there are plenty of R votes.

    They put a lot of polling places in nursing homes. This means Ida and Jim can roll into the elevator and head down to the lobby to vote, while the people with jobs have to wait in line outside. They don't have to find a ride, there are probably more people in the nursing home than there is waiting in line outside, and guess which news network is on the TV in the lounge/cafeteria all the time?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I really hate the red states. I did five years in Idaho, would not recommend. I say it like I went to prison on purpose, living in a Mormon community where their men beat their wives and abused their children.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Oh noooo, anyways

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Isn't that also a crime? (Not that he's known for following laws)

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Oh! Oh! Do Trump next!!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    whiney little bitch boy

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    Members of the ICC still practice slavery

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Which means it shouldn't be able to do anything to hold Israel accountable for crimes committed by the country of its leaders?

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  • 3 comments in c/usa@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    When people talk about how when the Good Guys are in power they can undo the things the Bad Guys did the American Service-Members' Protection Act always pops into my mind.

    The act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court" (ICC), located in The Hague, Netherlands.

    There was one repeal attempt by Ilhan Omar but it never went to a vote.

    This is an escalation of course, but nothing that isn't already authorized by this law. Which has been on the books for 24 years and two Democrat presidencies.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    hearing americans continue to insist that we've flawed defender of the democracy-and-freedom^TM^ is difficult to understand when glaring contradictions like this exist.

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