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[–] 113 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

It took me several times to understand what they meant by content.
Those are keys for reviewers and streamers. Companies steal and sell them, without giving anything to the developers. Now that makes sense.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    What do you mean "companies steal and sell them". How? Like they are hacking into the email accounts of streamers and stealing and selling the key before the streamer can activate it?

    Or they are stealing them from the developer directly somehow?

    I don't see how this would be feasible...

    More likely that the streamer or reviewer receiving the free key is selling it on these marketplaces.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    That's one option. Or the sellers scam the keys posing as reviewers or streamers. Or a streamer shares them with friends, and they leak that way. Some combination I imagine.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Well, for a start, a streamer sharing the code with a friend and them selling it is obviously not the marketplace stealing anything.

    So do we have any proof that these sellers are scamming developers by posing as streamers or is this something that you are asserting?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    I'm speculating. Those are possible ways they could get it. Likely more I haven't thought of.

    I'm not making accusations. I'm putting together things based on what they said in the post. Just trying to make sense of it.

    I'm not a researcher, investigator, or reporter.
    I'm just a random Steve online. Feel free to ignore me

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  • [–] 62 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    I always assumed key sites were using stolen credit card numbers and acted like Karma was watching (as in, I don’t want my credit card stolen, so I won’t benefit from those of others).

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  • [–] 36 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Indie game devs are bombarded with free game requests.

    I read about one indie dev who woke up to a dozen emails a day asking for a game key to "twitch stream" their game.

    It becomes extremely exhausting to verify every single one, and so many just hand it off and hope that one emailer really is who they say they are and they suddenly get a shitton of sales.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago* (5 children)

    To add to that, if they are using stolen payment info, then they'd probably have no qualms about stealing yours too

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Crazy thing, but my credit card info was recently stolen and after closing it, making compensation claims for my bank and filing a offence report to the police I contacted the three different online store the card was used with.

    The only one that responded was a key seller and they even refunded me the money.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Jeez, which country is this that you need to do this much work to deal with credit card fraud?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    I was quite surprised as well, when my card was stolen I called discover and they just charged back the transactions, granted they said it would be reinstated if their internal investigation proved to be a fake claim but, they got insurance from the feds for stuff like that, so they don't need to care too much.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 months ago* (10 children)

    So, what happend to evaluation keys, valid for 20 days after activation.... Would solve a bunch of problems.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Some devs feel like it’s a dick move. If the content creator actually did stream or review it, it’s a bit of a slap in the face to then claw back the key.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    What if the key itself had a limited available time to get activated, but after activation you keep the game?

    This allows any interested content creator to play the game, while limiting the chances of abusing the developer.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    100% possible with current steam key offerings I believe, it’s just a highly manual process.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    A very manual process. Unless they can get greenlit from valve to have API access to the steam key system it would mean they would need to go in and manually deactivate keys that are not redeemed per batch.

    I'm more surprised steam doesn't offer the feature built in to be honest.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I always assumed people used those sites because they didn’t want to get in trouble for β€œactually” pirating software.

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    [–] 20 points 2 months ago

    Use sites like deals.gg or isthereanydeal

    There are usually many legit places cheaper than steam with legit paid steam keys

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago

    so this is where those stores get their keys from

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago

    Factorio devs once put out a blog post about game key stores. Essentially, they were running into the issue of people buying factorio keys with stolen credit cards and then reselling them for cheap on G2A or whatever. Then the credit card would get identified as stolen, charge backs would be issued, and bank fraud departments would get involved. As a result, the factorio devs were actually losing money from stolen credit card sales.

    Of course, factorio is in a somewhat unique position of never putting the game on sale, so if you're getting it cheap it's probably from some dude using a stolen CC.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    This happened on stores like G2A and Kinguin. Generally stores that one way or another let users sell their keys, not stores that buy games in bulk and specially not stores where publishers and developers sell their keys officially.

    It's pretty easy to find out online which do what.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    As far as I know, gamesplanet.com is okay, they get a deal for buying in bulk from publishers and then resell them at a small markup. You won't get prices close to the games' historical lows and they rarely have indies or other smaller games, but it's a nice, non shady alternative for the bigger ones.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    My problem with pirating anything isn't the principle, it is the reliability and risk of viruses.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Should be nearly a non-issue on Linux, unless the DRM busting does some seriously shady shit as well.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    True, assuming the crack works in Wine or Proton. However, those emulators aren't fully sandboxed, so as long as the code can run it could in theory grab data or damage the system. Probably only a matter of time before such things are compromised regularly.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Wine/proton are not emulators, they run the code directly on linux, but using some fancy tricks to rrimplement windows dlls into linux native code. If someone embeds linux code in the windows executable you have the same privileges of your user and at tgat point you can be infected with a linux virus.

    It's not likely today because windows is much more popular, but once linux becomes popular enough to be an attractive target you will need to be as careful as on windows.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago

    Depends a lot on the game company though. Sometimes I am willing to pay for the convenience while ensuring that I fuck over the publisher/developer. Sometimes you want to play a game developed by a company you dislike.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Are there any legit, non-shady key sites though? I regularly use loaded.com (formerly CDKeys) but have no idea if they're legit or not.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    as a teenager i did a lot of business with shady key resellers. now i’m missing an unknown number of games from my library as a result of chargebacks and fraud. i’m fine to buy them again, but i’m gutted that i lost all my playstats, achievements, cloud saves, screenshots, etc. i’m not even sure what all is missing :/

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Wait, really? You lost your cloud data?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    if its steam, none of the stats are lost, if they repurchased the game they would have it again. You just can't buy a game you don't know is missing. I don't think cloud saves are ever deleted, I've had cloud saves be restored when I refunded and then humble choice provided me a key to the same game 4 years later.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I thought that was the case. But there has to be a way to see what games you have previously played.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Like the other person said, you can check your Steam account to see every key redemption that you've ever done. I believe refunds should still appear on that. I'm not sure if Steam initiated refunds will though.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (20 children)

    That doesn't even make sense tho, why are they giving out 1000s of free keys?

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  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago

    If you have no marketing budget, then shipping keys to streamers. Like small streamers, with 10 concurrent viewers, they might actually install it and play the game.

    That's 10 more people exposed to the game. Now send out 10.000 of these keys, even if 1% that'd be 100 streamers, actually play it. That's expose to 1000 people, if you're lucky that's 20 extra buyers - But it's also buyers way more likely to leave a positive review, given they've already seen the gameplay loop before buying it.

    The early reviews are incredibly important for Steam to determine whether or not it should boost visibility of the game

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (16 children)

    Yeah, I've never bought this. "oh no, someone redeemed a code we gave away/already sold"

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (15 children)

    So if a person who received a key sells it to someone who might have bought it from the official channels then the devs do not receive that money but the so called β€œcontent creator” gets it. The content creator was supposed to make a video or whatever of the game in exchange for the key. It’s also a breach of trust. Basically β€œcontent creator” begs for a key and says it’s for video or a stream, but then sells it is just a dick move.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    It was a gift, no?

    Who are you to tell me what to do with a gift. Its mine after you give it.

    Software industry understands neither property nor consent.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    I think that's stretching the definition of "gift" a bit far, no? A gift doesn't come with strings attached (even if unenforceable).

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (5 children)

    If these streamers aren't being contracted, then it is basically the same as a gift. Selling the key is still perhaps morally dubious if there was an expectation of promotion, but that's as far as it goes.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    If your justification is "it's not a crime" you're well aware it should be.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    My justification for what exactly? I wasn't justifying anything.

    And what do you believe should be a crime? Giving out free keys, or selling keys that you got for free?

    If theres no formal agreement and no contract between the dev and the recipient of the key, where/what is the crime??

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    My justification for what exactly?

    Selling keys you were gifted to play in order to raise the games profile. See your previous comment if you're still confused as to what's being talked about.

    If theres no formal agreement and no contract between the dev and the recipient of the key, where/what is the crime??

    As I literally just said, if your justification is that it isn't a crime, you already know it should be. Seeing as you seem genuinely confused, verbal contracts and agreements in writing (e.g email exchanges) are still contracts, even if not formal.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    These streamers are a business expense to drive their marketing department. They could time-limit the keys or limit them to a beta just for the streamers, but they just blindly issue fat tranches of keys and get upset when people use the copies of the game they minted.

    The CD key is conceptually the same as a game cartridge. Why would I -not- give away my review copies of a Nintendo 64 title?

    Ya'll cooked if you can't see it. You're all jumping infront of the bullet for companies who's purpose is to make money, like Apu.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Okay but then you are still a liar if you pretend to be a content creator so you can source free keys to flip. Why is a dev not allowed to be upset when they got duped by a liar?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    Because they should be angry at their incompetent marketing people who didn't vet the keys they sent.

    Each key they send has a cost, and this is part of it. There are technical solutions to their problems, in the form of running a beta for the streamers, and releasing beta-only keys

    This is a fabricated story because the keys they're complaining about have no reason to exist. Its pure incompetence on the manufacturers marketing teams part.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago*

    I do not care, even in the slightest about a marketing departments "losses" from issuing CD keys.

    Not even in the slightest. Its the cost of doing business.

    No other industry, not even the software industry, gets to do this.

    Unilever sends me some shit to review? They're not allowed to be upset about the eventual fate of those things.

    CD keys are property, and property is tradable.

    Just because the original intent is X or Y, doesn't mean dick for shit.

    If they didn't like it, maybe they shouldn't issue so many free copies.

    At some point they have to take responsibility for the keys they're minting. They can always issue time-limited keys.

    There's so many technical solutions to it and so much crying over the resale that I just do not buy the story.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    The devs can easily revoke the keys and burn the content creator, they're choosing to be victims here.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    This right here is why I never believed the claims either.

    I get the claim of they buy the key in lesser off regions for cheaper to sell at a higher price but, steam dashboard allows you to individually disable keys for any reason you like. I wouldn't imagine anyone actually daring to try to resell those(review keys), they would be blacklisting themselves from the industry.

    There's the argument that the publisher/dev might be new to it and didn't log who got what key but, I wouldn't bet access to games on that.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    When it comes to committing piracy, one element is whether or not the money would reach the actual developers of what I bought. I usually don't give a toss about publishers, unless they have a reputation of actually caring for the studios. If the developers are dead, my money goes to someone who isn't.

    Aside from that, my main use of piracy is to get stuff that isn't sold anymore, to avoid DRM, and being free of the cloud's tyranny. Autonomy is more important than money.

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