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[–] 95 points 2 months ago (17 children)

I feel like the meme got it backwards. People fussing over WMs in the middle, while newbies and veterans just using whatever comes by default on Fedora

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I don't wear hats cos am busy using debian

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    What comes default on fedora KDE spin

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Literally cured my distro hopping

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I stayed on it for many years, but Bazzite stole my heart

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    It probably has a lot of benefits but I don't think I could ever get used to immutable linux distros, especially since I really like customisability (I use Gentoo for a reason!!)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Yeah that was my thought too, but it turns out it was a misconception. It's perfectly customisable, I can install whatever I want in multiple ways without messing up my system. Right now I'm running IDEs with multiple compilers, LLMs, diffusion models, 3D printing slicers, 3D modeling, etc...

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Honestly yes. A few years ago when I was still getting into linux I'd customize the shit out of everything, wm with lengthy configuration, mostly terminal apps, "minimal" ui with custom made themes, and all that.

    My current fedora system is almost default Sway with a few convienent shortcuts and a few tweaks, using GUIs where it makes sense or simply because I just want something nice. I just don't have time or the need for something so customized. Defaults are good.

    Heck, I'm even considering switching to Plasma once I get a better PC (gonna need to sell a kidney or two for that to happen tho), since default Sway still requires considerable tweaking and there's a few quirks I just don't want to deal with.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    I've heard so too. Might be worth giving Plasma a shot on my current shitbox of a laptop to see if it can handle it. Though that thing (about 6 years old, btw) chokes on anything that involves graphics, so I don't have any high hopes

    Edit: After a few weeks, tried out Plasma on my Fedora setup. Really liked it, everything worked out of the box, feels like using the good parts of the windows ui without the bad parts, just a few small issues here and there (keyboard didn't work on the lock screen like once or twice). Sadly, the laptop is too crap to run it, constant swapping on zram, everything fell sluggish, it froze once even.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Not all terminals are black!!

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  • [–] [S] 31 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I would say we should burn the light-mode heritics, but they've already done it to their own eyes.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    *heretics

    And I wouldn't be so sure that light mode is more harmful than dark mode and not vice versa.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Depends on the ambiental conditions and the brightness; If you use dark mode outside? That's kinda on you if you get eye strain

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  • [–] 35 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    Fuck Linux

    All my homies use FreeDOS

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  • [–] 30 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Fuck FreeDOS

    All my homies use Plan9

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  • [–] 25 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Fuck plan9

    All my homies use EFI SHELL

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Somehow I am all three of these people at the same time.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Why is it constantly booting to a black screen with text?

    This is easy, just install steam and go

    Ahh the beauty of this Debian server, don't even need to get out of my sofa because I have SSH on my phone.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    The HTC Dream was the peak of Phone SSH.

    There was no key combo I couldn't input, no vim mode I couldn't use!

    There was a VNC client! I could RDP to Windows machines!

    I could have even used EMACS!

    I mean, I wouldn't, I'm not some kind of monster, but I could have, and that's what's important!

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It's not a blank screen. It's a canvas. You just don't know how to paint.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I think it’s just been stigmatized by society as a whole for some mysterious reason. Didn’t a lot of our grandmothers slashed through terminals like fruit ninjas back in the day?

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 2 months ago

    Heck yeah they did! I remember going over to my grandmothers house to use Word on her computer running DOS. She used that computer to keep her personal budget, do the accounting for her office supply business, write letters, and the newsletters for her church and social clubs. No gui, just a command line and some things that we would now call a TUI.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    It was stigmatized by Windows, because the Windows terminal was terminally shitty. People swear to me that their new terminal is awesome, but I have my doubts. Microsoft seems to have a problem with making stuff that doesn't suck.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    My dream is the Linux kernel with the BeOS/Haiku filesystem and display system on top. It could easily put Wayland to shame and gaming would be pretty awesome.

    My other dream is Haiku having as much hardware and software support as modern Linux. Imagine running a version of qemu kvm on an os that already screams.

    Neither will happen but I can still wish.

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It’s still somewhat early days, but you might want to check out https://v-os.dev/

    I’ve also been playing with Haiku on an old laptop and it’s pretty decent as a daily driver for the basics.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    Can you explain why are you fond of haiku? What are it's strong points?

    I had it in a VM, and liked the UI design. It was retro and unique. but that's about it.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    the big one for me is tagged filesystems. they exist on other oses but beos embraced them fully, and haiku does the same.

    "music" is no longer a directory, but a view of your filesystem that shows everything tagged "music". you want everything from an artist, or a year, or a genre? just create that directory and they're in there.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago*

    The filesystem is basically a database and files have associated metadata like a description or whatever, searches are nearly instant. The email app for example uses this, I've never seen anything even come close to how well this worked.

    Under the hood it uses a server model for pretty much everything.

    The programming APIs are elegant.

    There's a lot to it you wouldn't have noticed immediately by just starting it and opening a few apps.

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  • [+] 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    Flags have always been poorly standardized outside of system apps and tools. Generally, -u should equal --update (and depending on how the app was written, may warn for --up: "Did you mean --update?") Single tick flags are generally combinable: -ua or -ls. I have seen long single tick flags somewhere, but can't remember where. (Your -update example.) Various python libraries than handle flags have helped a ton with getting people to use the same patterns, so that is nice.

    You just summed up my first experience with systemd many years ago.

    systemctl != sysctl. Both somehow got wedged into the same index in my brain and took years for me to correct. On top of that, was reversed to . (Or was it the other way around?)

    I was convinced from my first experience with systemd that the person who wrote it was the purest form of evil. (It's leveled out a bit over the years, so it's tolerable to use these days. Still not a fan though.)

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    TUI enjoyer 😏

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago* (10 children)
  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    The whole idea of someone not being sure if they want to use Linux while having an aversion to systemd, a system they likely don’t even have full context for, is just bizarre.

    You’re either new and don’t know what you want or you’re someone who already knows well enough if Linux is for you or not, and likely exactly which version you want to use.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Someone could just read into it regardless of what OS they're on and decide from there if they want systemd or not.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    Right, but if they’re technically advanced enough to care about system management at that level, they really can’t expect a comfortable and easy introduction. Hence the point of them already knowing what they want by that point.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Exactly. The only thing a new user is really going to care about or even notice is if their hardware is well supported in first install and that the desktop environment feels like what they are used to. All of the fighting about things like systemd, snap, flatpak, deb vs rpm, etc are somewhere between a distraction and scary sounding words.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    yeah, my first boot into KDE Plasma (technically Linux Mint/ Cinnamon) brought me the strange inner peace that i am now used to when I decided to try Windows vista on an old PC (at least the first few minutes, you really can't do anything without a graphics card).

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I know you’re trying to be helpful, but I clicked the link, sure that I was ready. Now I’m scared again.

    I’ve got a laptop to give it a go. Gonna save the good files and let err rip. It always comes down to just wanting something that works. I really would rather learn something else with my limited spare time.

    Still scared. Getting closer to making the switch every day though.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Me, not being a programmer or sysadmin or whatever, booting into TTY just for shits and giggles, playing videos via mpv with -vo=tct just cause I think it looks funny

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Neat. Nearly watchable. I tried kitty/sixel options but those are too high-res and cause even more frame-drops (at least on the older hardware I tested it on, no drops playing with normal mpv), with a 360p video it's isn't scaled up.

    Then again, I guess it's a whole lot more watchable than the blinkenlights (Starwars) thing via telnet.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    I'm a CLI enjoyer. It's easier for me to define what I often do as a bash function than to remember which button to click in a GUI app. It's easier for me to copy paste a StackOverflow answer than to zoom the screenshot only to find out that the UI has changed. And I'm too lazy to move my mouse when I can do it with a Neovim keymap.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago*

    Can't and don't want to are two different things.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Look I just switched over from Windows, I'm new to this shit lol. I enjoy using commands while I'm learning them but mostly I just copy/paste from instruction manuals on how to install shit I want installed. Makes me feel like a master hacker.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Terminal gang!

    It does everything you need with ONE exception I've found: if you use it for your file manager (I do) and you find that you need to quickly select a few items based on image preview, it is not great. Now you can solve this with vifm or something, or just launch dolphin or something every once in awhile.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Have you used a terminal file manager with image preview like yazi? Or just a thumbnail viewer like lsix?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    I didn't know a thumbnail viewer existed, I will have to try. Historically I have used sxiv in tabbed mode and just tried to remember filenames which is obnoxious.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 months ago

    Oof, yeah that’s hard. yazi is a full tui file manager that can do image and other file previews, so you can flip through a directory, mark the files you want to move/delete/whatever, then hit the command to do it. lsix is basically ls for images, it generates and displays thumbnails for each file. Or can just do it from emacs.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    You don't have to touch the terminal. You just really, really should.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Give me at least windows 98 levels or I'm not touching linux

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Linux has a wide selection of GUIs. For those comfortable with Windows I would recommend either Mint's Cinnamon or KDE.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Don't most GUI's follow the same ancient desktop paradigms? Nevermind W98, they were there in Windows 1.x and in UNIX window systems like W before 1985, and I even remember DOS TUI's in products made by Borland as early as 1983 that basically worked the same.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    you can literally replicate Windows 98 if you wanted. XFCE is possible, KDE is easy to replicate. there's a very good git repo of this called Chicago95 that does everything, even the old Windows 95/98 boot screen.

    Hell I had my KDE Plasma desktop looking exactly like NeXTUP for awhile. someone even recently made a spot on version of MacOS9 for KDE Plasma.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    GUI is simpler because you have to remember a sequence of steps for every action you want to take and then memorize a bunch of keyboard shortcuts and then do it all again when they reinvent their product in two weeks.

    CLI requires you to learn how your system is structured and where things are located and then you create scripts that last years. Not everyone wants to put in a bunch of effort just to use their computer.

    Anyways Firefox just updated and they moved "save to collection" and a few other things so now I need to relearn some stuff. I hope my other apps don't reinvent themselves anytime soon. Every update I know how to use them less and less.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    A regular user will never in a million years create a script.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Meanwhile many open source GUI apps are better or at least on par with their proprietary counterpart, but you can't flex with them onto noobs.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I'd like to meet a Linux user who's never had to touch the terminal.

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