Let's beam down more heat! We totally need that on our rapidly heating planet.
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thankfully the us is the only country that has a sky so only their government’s approval is needed 😁👍
Why the fuck is every dystopian industrialist naming their shit after Tolkein? Does an artificial moon designed to fuck the natural order sound like something he would want to endorse?
They don't have the literacy / abstract thinking necessary to understand themes and like the 'vibes' of nerdy things being cool now.
Elon likely never read Foundation, and it's frustrating that he's getting credit for it.
I do firmly put that on the people not doing their research, though. We should absolutely be bullying the shit out of people for being disingenuous in this way.
There's a lot of fuckery afoot as far as space goes. There are even companies trying to get world governments to allow them to put satellites in space so ads can be beamed into the night sky. I made a video about it if anyone's bored.
The good news is that the scientific community fought back hard against it. You never understand how badass astronomers are until you read up on corporations trying to arse themselves into space.
The Federal Communications Commission approved Reflect Orbital’s plan to launch Eärendil-1, an experimental satellite carrying an 18-meter-wide reflective surface. The mirror would redirect sunlight toward a targeted area after dark, producing a beam roughly five kilometers wide.
The July 9 authorization applies to one demonstration satellite, not the enormous constellation the California company eventually hopes to build. Reflect Orbital has described plans for more than 50,000 mirrors by 2035, creating what it calls “sunlight on demand.”
oh cool, more supervillains appropriating Tolkien
Servants of Morgoth.
Quite the opposite. The Star of Eärendil was a guardian of the Doors of Night, through which Morgoth was banished.
It was light from Eärendil, stored in the Phial of Galadirel, that was instrumental in defeating Shelob in Lord of the Rings.
Quite the opposite.
So the supervillains appropriating Tolkien are not the servants of Morgoth, or is one of us misunderstanding?
"Sunlight on demand" is an exaggeration. The plan is to create a 5km spot of 0.1 lux, which is a bit brighter than a full moon.
Every time I've seen this news posted (and I've seen it a lot over the past few days) everyone has leapt to some very extreme conclusions.
Not really extreme. The whole concept is bonkers. What right has a company to destroy the night huge numbers of people and not mention wildlife.
Don't worry it's not going to happen. They're just after investor money then they'll vanish.
Even if they actually build this, a very small area of the planet is going to be imperceptibly brighter for 35 seconds.
It's a 5km diameter target area. It's not going to be shining on random patches of wilderness.
That's just for one mirror, they're saying they want fifty thousand up there.
It’s a 50k constellation or some proportion that’s the problem. Also it’s who gets to approve such a monstrous plan? Surely not a national government as it is an international issue.
Also it’s who gets to approve such a monstrous plan?
The FCC. It's in the title. There's more detail in the article if you want.
Surely not a national government as it is an international issue.
Satellites have always been regulated by the nation they're launched from or owned by. There are international treaties regulating some aspects of that, but treaties are implemented by their signatories - the national governments.
My point is why the FCC? It is a US government entity and as the current US government is pretty rabid, why should they be able to inflict this sort of thing on the the rest of the world? Maybe this will be a straw too many and force change. The whole Starlink debacle is bad enough but to add huge mirrors is just madness.
The article explains the answer to this very question.
Yep, it say the FCC only looks at communications and not light pollution or congestion. That it is a US government entity and doesn’t mention anything outside the US.
So there you go. That answers your question.
You may think there should be a federal agency whose job is to regulate light pollution from satellites, but there isn't one. You may think there should be some kind of international body that is able to impose decisions on all the nations of the Earth, but there isn't one - treaties are agreements between sovereign nations. And so the FCC approved this satellite, in accordance with the laws of the United States and in accordance with the treaties the United States has signed. Nothing underhanded or nefarious is happening here.
That would be multiplied by 50k according to their plan, wouldn't it? That's a lot of moons.
It would be completely impossible for them to all focus on the same spot, they'd be distributed around the world.
Also, that's not been approved. This approval is for a single prototype.
The amount of light pollution we have from cities is already more than necessary given that it covers makes most stars impossible to see.
I don't think a large quantity of small fake moons is gonna help with that.
Last time a proposal like this made the rounds on the Internet stirring up consternation, the proposal was to use space mirrors to replace the street lighting for the Chinese city of Chengdu. It would have had no net effect on light pollution and would have reduced electricity consumption to boot.
Bear in mind, this mirror focuses its light on a specific 5km-diameter patch of land. It won't be visible elsewhere.
The visibility doesn't consider the massive glow that would appear to anyone seeing them outside their intended area of use due to reflections off dust and particles in the atmosphere. Light pollution goes far outside the area where cities are for the same reason, and having these in low earth orbit as a replacement for streetlights or as a spotlight would both have that happening.
That's part of why experiments like this are done. Reflect Orbital would prefer that the spot be kept as tight as possible, they ultimately need to test out the technology to refine it.
Almost everyone in this thread seems to be jumping straight from "their first prototype was approved for testing" to "therefore every plan of theirs is about to be immediately implemented." And the dopamine that comes from the ensuing rage and fear is making it hard to accept otherwise, it'd kill the buzz.
I was not thinking about combining the beans, but about the surface that 50k of them would cover and the amount of additional light that would represent. I do hope it's just some vaporware.
Why would they spread the light evenly? They're planning on selling it. Someone would need to pay them to have a place illuminated, it's not going to be randomly beamed all over.
Again you're implying something I didn't mean, but the point is that having 50k times the equivalent of the moon light intensity is expected to have a bad impact on the environment.
I'm not seeing why. Do you have any links to sources about that? If they were to focus all 50,000 mirrors on one 5km patch of land simultaneously that'd be 5000 lux, which is less than 5% of the intensity of full sunlight at noon. It would be impossible to do this since the 50,000 mirrors would be spread around the Earth, and if you brought them all together into some kind of grand conjunction they'd only remain in position to do so for a few minutes.
Do we need a paper to estimate that ecosystems that evolved with a night time with a moon (mostly partial, sometimes absent), are going to be disturbed by having 50k of them? Also it's the new product's responsibility to demonstrate its safety.
I think you're drastically misunderstanding how this proposed constellation would work. It's not putting 50,000 "moons" in the sky. You can only see the light from the mirror in that one specific 5km patch of land that it's being aimed at. The vast majority of the world - including all the "wilderness", because who would pay to point these things at random patches of undeveloped wilderness - will not receive extra light from these things.
It's more like setting up floodlights at a construction site, or street lights in a city.
Earth's circumference is 40 000 km, if you align 50k patches of 5 km width, it covers more than 6 times this circumference. Current human's light pollution is already a biodiversity issue. This would be massively worsening the situation for just one system.
Only a single mirror has been approved.
Even if all 50,000 were up, where do you think they'll be aimed? Cities and other developed land, most likely. Last time something like this was proposed the plan was to replace streetlights with them, which would save electricity.
But people would rather get angry about "supervillains" I guess.
Why is the FCC approving anything related to space?
I recall in Futurama this didn't end well
fcc is not a science based department. they should have no say at all over environmental endeavors
They don't, which is why they can't prohibit this satellite. It meets all their requirements regarding radio interference.
The Satellite should absolutely be stopped, but the FCC isn't the agency to do it.
This thing will never materialize. It's a vapor-project for stupid people to pour money into.

Cartoon Country.
A very unserious place with very serious problems.
The illumination would last only a few minutes at one location before the mirror required repointing. Reflect Orbital says the technology could extend solar power production after sunset, illuminate construction areas and assist rescue teams working in darkness.
Flare guns already do this for a lot cheaper. They even come in a choice of colours.
The company has also argued that reflected sunlight could provide temporary lighting without diesel generators or permanent ground infrastructure.
Sure it just requires that you build a giant precision mirror array, launch it into orbit, and then constantly monitor and position it from the ground, but god damn if you won't need a bulky, polluting flashlight ever again.
What an absolute fucking joke of a proposal. Yeah, let's blanket the earth in mirrors so that we can light up some random construction site temporarily.
heaven forbid you need to illuminate two completely different areas of earth simultaneously. is this is the least cost efficient solar powered device ever?
Oh, no, don't worry about that, this is just a test to see if it works... They plan to put 50,000 of these things in orbit.
Aren't they worried that the bazillion of SpaceX satellites will cast shadows on their light beams?
Well, it's true that if you need to illuminate a site for two and a half minutes but can't build anything on the ground, it's a great solution. Is it the best solution? Maybe not. Is it a solution? You bet it is.
Illuminate construction sites? With a flare gun? They have lamps, you know. And yeah, also cheaper
For as long as there has been humankind, we have gazed up at the night sky, for comfort, for romance, for meditation, for curiosity, etc. It has been a core human experience, evolutionarily hard-wired into our humanity and psyche.
Now these Sociopathic Ferengi are going to steal that experience from every future human being, for profit.
So uh... Florida made "Geoengineering and Weather Modification Activities" illegal.
So are they going to launch that into space from another state, because one would think launching such out of cape canaveral would be off limits
"Geoengineering and Weather Modification Activities" illegal.
That's only when "the Jews TM" do it. When its capitalism then fine! See they are still spewing carbon into the atmosphere in Florida but they haven't banned internal combustion engines, and they keep burning coal!
We know this ain't gonna happen (precisely because of a pesky thing called "laws of physics"), but it's surely paving the way for similar deranged ideas such as "orbital data centers", as this "Sun-as-a-Service" bullshittery moves the Overton window to where techbros want it to be, as well to (failed) attempts on pretending the laws of physics can be bent to capitalist interests.Even sadder is seeing how other regulatory and space agencies worldwide (你好, 国家航天局! नमस्ते, अंतरिक्ष विभाग!) seem to be so quiet in this regard, as if all these deranged techbro ideas wouldn't affect the skies over there...!technology@lemmy.world
I'm pretty sure I've heard about this a while ago and the math just doesn't math.
Oh not this again. I agree the it sets a stupid precedent but the act itself is irrelevant.
Far apart from the fact that it's only going to be over any given area of the earth for about a minute tops, but also pointless because it's only 18 m wide, so you won't be paying for sunlight, you'll be paying for a random spec in the sky to be switched on.
This is all a giant con where they're trying to get a bunch of investment money from idiots that don't know basic physics but do have a lot of money. I'd actually put a reasonable amount of money on this never actually launching.
I was just postulating to a friend, that if we built a huge array of solar panels, set out in a pattern not unlike solar sails, and deployed them out in-between the Earth and the Sun, we could block an appreciable amount of heat, which might act as a way to slow down climate change on our planet. Additionally this array could be connected in a grid, making it a huge space station, and energy source, where we could potentially use it as a base to start collecting and mining asteroids.
And then I read about these dumb mother fuckers who want to redirect sunlight back at the earth, making climate change worse, all to replace a couple flood lights? How fucking stupid is the person who brought this to reality? Jesus fucking christ.
Someone needs to read the Dyson Sphere paper: https://archive.org/download/dyson-1960-search-for-artificial-stellar-sources-of-infrared
(The paper was written as a sarcastic take on SETI sinking money into frivolous research of extra-terrestrial intelligence.)
There needs to be an international campaign to harass all of these people until they leave that company. Shame them.
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