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[–] 163 points 4 months ago (18 children)

It's hard to remember how much we hated Bush II back in the day. The fact that he is now just lumped in with the other surviving presidents today for me is the real demonstration of just how much worse Trump is.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago

    Bush II should have swung besides Saddam, but trump has dashed any hopes I have for holding GWB accountable for pissing away the future of the middle class to murder the shit out of people on the other side of the world.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Man, its wild how much i miss conservatives of yesteryear.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago

    During Trump I, I maintained that Bush Jr. was far worse due to the deaths and destabilization from invasions, Guantanamo, mass surveillance, unauthorized drone strikes, and on and on.

    Not halfway through Trump II, he has definitely far surpassed Bush Jr. 😭

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Or it is proof that over time you start forgetting how bad it was and it will unfortunately be the same with Trump.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    It's hard to keep perspective over the decades. I was more passionate back then, and he really did some horrible things, but I don't remember feeling like he was so, I don't know, disgusting of a human being as Trump.

    Time will tell I guess

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    I think Bush was bad but a lot of the bad stuff he did was somewhat reversible (ICE existed , plus it's not his fault that ICE is now used as a papers-please. There was PATRIOT but we reversed it so it's actually a great example of what I mean.) and relatively short-term. Reagan, meanwhile, made a giant hole in the infrastructure that is still ingrained within everything US today.

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    But ICE was literally created by the Bush admin along with the rest of the DHS, and the Patriot Act wasn't reversed so much as disseminated into earmarks attached to various spending bills so it's actually even harder to get those freedoms back. Even our current immigration system is descended from Bush era policy, including the fucking wall.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (1 child)

    ICE wasn't created, only transferred and renamed from the Immigration and Naturalization Service from the Treasury. There had to be an agency enforcing the era where we used a fucking ocean instead of the fucking wall. (There was a prosperous time of much freer immigration in between but my point is of course it was always a thing.) Finally, of course, ICE never and never intended to barge into cities and homes under the Bush like Trump did, nor did he forever change politics for the worse and blow up education and welfare and economic equality like Reagan did.

    Could you source what you said about the PATRIOT Act's sunset provisions?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    INS was basically an entire different agency with an entirely different directive. That was also a time when our immigration system was bifricated. So there were, in fact, several agencies, who all had a specialized directive. DHS changed all of that. Not to mention the budget increases.

    I grew up 200 feet from a HUGE Border Patrol station in southern California, and about half a mile from the Mexican border. Just because they weren't coming into the city centers and making big show about it doesn't mean that they were terrorizing people all over border regions for a loooong time. Murder, rape, racketeering, etc have all been extremely common, and they pretty frequently destroy water and food stashes that good samaritans have left for folks, which has led to uncountable deaths.

    Source it? No. I'm not going to show you the last 20 years of federal legislation that removes your freedoms systematically. My point was that we are not in a better place now than we were then, and the place where we are now has everything to do with where we were then

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    To me there's no comparison. Bush Jr. is responsible for a million Iraqi civilian deaths. As much as people wish it were so, Trump doesn't hold a candle to that (yet).

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Sure, but the question was, who is more hated? I do not think that globally at the moment the population thinks about, let alone actively hates, Bush Jr these days.

    Yes Trump has his core base, but man, it really feels like if you don't love him, you hate him.

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  • [–] 40 points 4 months ago

    Easily without a doubt. He has the lowest approval rating of any president before he stopped them from tracking it.

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  • [–] 68 points 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 97 points 4 months ago (22 children)

    Trump is among the worst humans in history.

    like mad Roman emperor level.

    Raped children, casually murdered 150 school girls, Hitler style Gestapo and concentration camps, unmatched level of corruption...

    like worst human in history, the question is maybe if he's worse than Hitler, not Bush

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    He has yet to reign over the deaths of millions of people for being in the out-group.

    Don't misunderstand me, Trump is a walking bag of syphilitic, pus filled, nazi cumsocks. But he's not attained quite the level of warcrimes Hitler did. Not yet anyway.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    How many have died because of DOGE’s reckless cuts?

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Again, not even close to the number of people the Nazis killed. Auschwitz probably killed more people a month than Trump and his regime have been responsible for to date.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    ..they estimate that somewhere between 8 and 19 million people could die, including 4.5 million children, by 2030. - NPR

    Seems like his holocaust of indifference is well on it"s way to surpass the actual one.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    How many died through covid because his incompetence?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Not even close to the number the Nazis killed, directly or indirectly.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    1.2% of Americans did not survive his covid policies, compared to 0.15% in New Zealand a country that took it seriously. That is over a million excess and needless deaths of US Americans due to Trump's ego and stupidity.

    Not nothing.

    But if you want death s in concentration camps more like the Nazis, there are many deaths in ICE concentrations camps, they don't get access to healthcare and barely enough food. Probably not in the millions, but they are not finished yet.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    This is the thing that gets me the most. A million Americans literally died under his watch. What more would it take to make a candidate unelectable for a 2nd term? I was gobsmacked to see it happen.

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  • [+] -10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)

    Lmfao, honestly, this thread is making me realize that Trump has a point when he talks about Trump derangement syndrome.

    Multiple comments now have compared him to Hitler, which makes you either ignorant of present day reality or grossly ignorant of history.

    Like honestly, "casually murdered 150 schoolgirls". Do you know how many fucking innocent children Bush got killed in Afghanistan and Iraq?? It's more than 150.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yes, but bush did not go to Esptein, or steal billions. He was bad, but it is a different leage of bad. He is responsible for over a million US exes during COVID. over 1.2% of Americans did not survive his first administration and died directly due to his ego.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago*

    or steal billions.

    Yes, billions of dollars was funneled from the US government, to defense contractors like Haliburton, explicitly to prop up the corporations of Bush and his friends like Cheney.

    He is responsible for over a million US exes during COVID. over 1.2% of Americans did not survive his first administration and died directly due to his ego.

    I mean fair point, but his COVID policy was also a direct reflection of the will of a huge amount of the American public. Fox News has more deaths in their hands because of COVID then Trump does if you want to be honest about the origin of the anti-vax attitude. It certainly didn't start with Trump, though he was in a position to influence change and he didn't.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago

    I mean, he’s a Nazi presiding over a Nazi government doing Nazi things.

    He isn’t as bad as Hitler yet; but Hitler wasn’t as bad as Hitler in the first part of his reign either.

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  • [+] 66 points 4 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 46 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    He's consistently the worst person, period.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah, that's why historians examine things through hindsight and evidence not flash polls on CNN designed to get headlines.

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  • [+] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    A historian 30 years from now will see them about the same.

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    Yes, and at that point, both sources will be meaningless in the context of who the most hated president is.

    They will also be meaningless because the same polls were not carried out during previous presidencies, so there is nothing to compare them to, nor was there the same information ecosystem.

    At present he won't go down as the most hated President of all time in the long run, and if Trump goes down as the most hated president, during his time, it will only be because social media didn't exist during Andrew Jackson's time.

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    One thing I am certain of:

    The next Republican president will be worse.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I can’t or won’t even begin to imagine how that could be possible.

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago

    Amongst the general public, maybe.

    Amongst scholars and experts, definitely.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States

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  • [–] 54 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    He will be the most hated american president SO FAR. I believe in americans, they can do worse.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    If we survive Trump. We will be weaker in so many ways. The institutions that underpin our democracy have been severely damaged. I also expect a severe economic downturn over the next few years.

    I worry that the next Republican President will be younger more calculating and energetic. They will look at the Trump era as a blueprint for taking permanent political control of an already damaged system.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    I believe that the best years of our country are behind us. The erosion of the ethical values of those serving in public office the 'acceptance of daylight corruption,' betrayal of our allies, and the attack on education, intellectualism, and renewable energy will set us back for a long time.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    Whoever comes next will be blamed for the state of the economy and the government.

    There's just one sliver of hope: When Trump keels over the Republicans will tear each other qpart like cats in a bag. That's your opportunity. You have to get the right people in, you (the "left of MAGA", basically normies) will win an easy landslide just that one time..

    I'm British and this is what happened here - the right briefly in disaray allowed our centre-left party to win big. Just once.. now Labour are blamed for everything and are getting destroyed in the polls.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Isn't Labour right wing now too?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    They're way left of the Tories and Reform. But yes, that's what I was getting at with the "right" people. If Americans fight for better Deomcratic candidates between now and 2029 then they have a chance. They'll win big when Trump goes anyway so the question is: Who benefits?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    I'm not from the US or UK, but I assumed that Starmer having directly succeeded Corbyn had a hand in or was beholden to those in Labor who politically assassinated Corbyn. Reading a bit more (Starmer’s Resignation Speech and Corbyn’s Rebuttal | Telegraph.com) I don't think it's only unjust blame. I assumed the Labour party got completely ratfucked under Starmer.

    But we're seeing the same rightward and fierce anti-socialistic / anti-pacifist / anti-solidarity push in France and Germany too. Like Labour, the SPD and Greens in Germany also aided and abetted in the genocide in Gaza. What sane party is left to vote for?

    In the USA I can't imagine the Democrats doing any serious reconstruction or "new deal" program to undo the economic, institutional and political damage Trump has done. Not with all the plutocrats, establishment and media against them. Just look at the reaction to Mahdami. Or them shooting themselves in the foot with Platner lol (See this article from 2025 that should have cancelled him).

    Honestly, I believe the era of social or liberal democracy is pretty much over. It's like they are doing everything they can so fascist parties rise and take power. They don't know how to do anything else. The elites are not dumb, but they are stupid. They'll accelerate and drive us straight into a global collapse.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Most hated president? He’s on my list of most hated humans.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    He does fit, but remember: He's just the symptom and if the Republicans wanted too, Trump would be gone in 24h. There are just many evil people who keep Trump were he is while pushing him one way or the other to get what they want.

    Trump has been an awful human being long before he became president, so no sympathy needed, but what is being done to him is elder abuse.

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago

    I think he's the most hated living person in the history of the world, if you go by number of people who hate him. There were less than half as many people around when Hitler was alive.

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  • [–] 48 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Hated by who?

    As a person, he is absolutely vile and disgusting. For one thing, he raped children and recently killed ~160 school girls. He combines the crookedness of Nixon, the dementia of Reagan, the genius of W and the child molesting of Clinton into one person.

    From the perspective of a citizen of a EU country that has blindly followed the US for several decades, I'd like to add one more thing. He is the first president who put a dent in the alliance between the US and Europe and who is really not our friend. He threatened Denmark and Greenland, puts random tariffs on EU products out of spite and worst of all, he appears to be a tool of Vladimir Putin, who has invaded a EU member.

    I do not think that 'hate' covers what I feel about this absolute piece of human garbage, but he is definitely one of the worst persons currently alive.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    genius of W

    Is that meant to be ironic? 😅

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    My thoughts as well.

    W certainly wasn't a genius. He had incredible PR people and was lucky people didn't blame him for being asleep at the wheel and demonstrating massive incompetence during one of the most pivotal events in American History, which he then exploited to put us on our current speedrun to fascism.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Who also sat back while Cheney gave himself no-bid contracts to basically control the middle east.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago*

    You can go almost anywhere on Earth and say "I can't wait to read that obituary" in the local language, and people will know who you're talking about. We haven't had that since Hitler

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  • [+] 19 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago

    (Insert that thing from The Simpsons)

    No, the most hated US president so far.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago

    Trump 2 for sure is undisputedly the worst.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    He made Canada hate him. That puts him up there.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago

    I don't know about domestically, but if you look at him at an international level, he's a slam dunk for that title.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago

    Running for a 3rd term would certainly seal it.

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