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[–] 43 points 4 months ago (15 children)

Are people under the impression that the US revolution and independence was specifically about not paying taxes? That's some libertarian shit right there.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    It's the narrative pushed In alot of schools in the USA

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    I distinctly remember writing some report about taxation without representation, thinking it was some super important American principle. I was real confused when I learned about Puerto Rico

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Wait, why?! DC doesn’t get proper representation. Or are you joking?

    In any case, to say the people of the 50 states are adequately represented is foolish.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    DC isn't a state or in one. The original idea was that it wouldn't be a meaningful permanent residence, but as the federal government grew it became a real major city with a lot of permanent residents.

    They have 1 non voting representative, no presence in the senate, and starting in 1961 they've had 3 electoral votes for president.

    Oh also in 1973 they were granted the right to elect a mayor and city council rather than being directly governed by the federal government. The federal government still has the constitutional power to overrule them and has done so several times.

    DC wants statehood, and I generally support it (alongside Puerto Rican statehood), but for DC even just giving them a single senator, true home rule off federal land, voting representatives proportional to population, and the ability to gain electoral votes as population grows would be huge.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Language is fluid (fortunately|unfortunately)

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  • [–] 98 points 4 months ago* (44 children)

    We didn’t quit paying taxes. We just quit paying unfair taxes to the Crown.

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  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    A reminder that the taxes in question were levied to recoup the costs of French and Indian War, which the colonists started.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    And, which was largely fought (and won) in a way that dramatically benefitted the colonists.

    Ever wonder why there are so many places with French names just slightly inland from the original 13 US colonies have French names?

    • Bayou La Batre, Decatur, Lapine, Leroi, Mon Louis, Dauphin Island, etc. Alabama
    • Louisville, Paris, Versailles, Montpelier, etc. in Kentucky
    • Leroy, Napoleon, Montpelier, Saint Croix, etc. in Indiana
    • Bellaire, Bellefontaine, Louisville, Marietta, etc. in Ohio
    • Dubois, Duquesne, Labelle, Fort le Boeuf, Eau Claire, etc. in Pennsylvania
    • The name "Michigan" itself (originally Ojibwe, but interpreted into French), and a whole lot of parts of that state, including Detroit
    • Ozark (aux arcs), Benoit, Bellefontaine, D'Iberville etc. in Mississippi

    New France went from the Gulf of Mexico north, included all the Great Lakes, and kept going up to Hudson's Bay. American settlers couldn't go west without entering New France, so England fought a war to allow the expansion west. It won that war. The resulting treaty gave the British colonists in the Americas a huge amount of territory they could expand into, leaving only a small amount behind for France and its native allies.

    The British colonists in the Americas were asked to help pay for the war that gave them that opportunity to expand west, and they rebelled. And then, after the rebellion, they decided they didn't need to abide by the terms of the British treaty with the French and took over most of the remaining land that France had been left after that war.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Didn't the boston tea party start because they lowered the price of legally imported (and thus taxed) tea, undermining smugglers?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    Yes, but it was also a grudge match between rivals. In one connected incident a locally-owned ship was burnt to the waterline to take out a competitor.

    The tea party was hugely damaging to the rebel cause, and leadership was furious. Just the sort of lawlessness the rebels were accused of standing for. It’s only several decades later that it was recast as an act of rebellion against the crown.

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  • [–] 38 points 4 months ago (29 children)

    Quit paying unfair taxes to the crown

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (28 children)

    "No taxation without representation". If the colonies got representatives in Parliament, that flag would look mighty different.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (23 children)

    Except that the British were offering that concession, and the negotiators for the colonists didn't want to take it because really the taxes and lack of representation were just an excuse.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (22 children)

    The British were also being ruled by someone with a genetic blood disease that makes you irrational and some form of major personality disorder, not exactly the most trustworthy negotiators.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (21 children)

    How directly was he involved in the negotiations? Often the king is the ultimate authority in a country, but they don't actually make many decisions themselves.

    It's well known that the colonists were looking for a reason to break away, and that the taxation issue was a convenient excuse. After all, taxation without representation was the norm. It wasn't like all of England had the vote and had representatives in parliament. Entire cities had zero representation but were still taxed. Ireland had been part of the British empire for ages and it didn't have representation.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    Well, having a verifiably insane monarch sure couldn't have helped.

    It's obviously foolish for anyone to try and argue exactly what happened when for which reasons, we weren't in those rooms having those conversations so we'll never really know. We do know that the colonists hated what they considered overreaching British control (it was kind of the reason they left in the first place), and we know that the British were broke af and desparate to wring every penny they could out of the colonies to pay for wars on the other side of the ocean (sounds familiar). But you bring up a good point in Ireland, they were famously treated so well by the British and therefore were predictably loyal and peaceful subjects of the Crown 🤣🤣🤣

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (19 children)

    We do know that the colonists hated what they considered overreaching British control

    Do we? Or is that the story that has been written after the fact to justify what they did and make it seem more noble?

    It sounds to me like you're a product of the US educational system and have accepted what you learned there without questioning it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (18 children)

    Yes we do, it's literally the reason they left in the first place. There were protests all across the colonies, the British even repealed the Stamp Act due to the blowback. There are pamphlets, books, and vast quantities of recorded speeches and debates from both sides of the Atlantic on the issue. From before the revolution.

    Sounds to me like you're a product of the Ignorant Blowhard educational system and have assumed you know everything about everything with little evidence to support the assumption.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (17 children)

    Yes we do, it's literally the reason they left in the first place.

    According to what you learned in an American elementary school?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (16 children)

    Nah, according to the Encyclopedia Britannica. Must be more American propaganda though I s'pose 🤣🤣🤣

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    They're of course going to give you the surface level, popular version of what happened. If you want to actually know the real story you need to talk to historians.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (14 children)

    No you need to talk to people who have been dead for hundreds of years, your entire argument is based on not trusting historians.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    Historians are the ones who break through the myths. Myths are what you're taught in school. In school they told you all about how the US founding fathers were heroic figures fighting for their freedom...

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (12 children)

    Did you forget how you wanted to end that or...? 🤷‍♂️

    Regardless, if you don't think historians are writing history books, what do you think they're doing? And no, in school they taught me that the US founding fathers founded the US, pretty objective stuff. You know, names, dates, locations, etc. I'm fascinated to hear what else you think I was taught though, this is fun!

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (11 children)

    Regardless, if you don't think historians are writing history books, what do you think they're doing?

    Researching it and writing papers for other historians.

    Do you think most historians write popular history books for non-historians?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (10 children)

    No, but I do think history books are by definition written by historians.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (9 children)

    So, you think anybody who writes a book about history is a historian? No wonder you are so lost.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    No, I think anyone who writes a book of historical facts (hence the name "history book") based on research is a historian. And if I were lost, that'd fall under cartography, not history. See, cartography is the study of making maps. Maps are to cartographers as history books are to historians. Make sense?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

    So, writing a book makes you a historian. It's not studying history?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    Damn, selective reading is a tough diagnosis. Is there a pattern, like you only understand every other word or something, or is it just completely random?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    Are you dodging the question? What makes someone a historian? Is anybody who writes a book on history automatically an authority on history?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Well this question is very different than the other question, but both are intentionally foolish misrepresentations of my statements so I reckon my answers would be "wrong" no matter what I said. So I'll just tell you what you wanted to hear the first time: yes, I think "writing a book makes you a historian". 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I know, you're trolling attempts were quite heavy-handed, gotta work on your subtlety!

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    We just like how the “un fair taxes” they teach is actually way lower than the taxes US citizens have now adays.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    The checks were unfair because they went to the crown rather than back to the American people who are paying them in the first place

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    So what is different now?

    Is Israel, Trump's ministers' pockets, insurance company executives, and the military industrial complex executives considered "the american people"?

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    And paid for wars that were fought for the benefit of the colonists. Similar to how US taxes today are paid to the state and are used to pay for wars that the government claims are for the benefit of the American people.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    This is one of the most effective propaganda lines to keep idiots voting for less taxes for the rich and corporations.

    You didn't stop paying taxes, you started getting services and representation in your legislature in exchange for paying taxes.

    Ironically, you guys pay taxes to Israel in exchange for nothing now.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    You know what's also not cool. Making using fireworks illegal because it might cause a fire but don't ban the selling of fireworks.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I see taxes as a good solidary thing but we need far stronger regulations or personal interest direction where the tax should go

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Hear me out, just start a religion where fireworks are a form of religious ceremony. Although you'll likely still pay tax on procuring the materials to manufacture the fireworks.

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  • [–] 49 points 4 months ago (15 children)
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    Is this just for the memes? Or do people actually not like fireworks?

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    If you've seen one, you've seen them all.

    Unless someone can invent the real equivalent of the fireworks Gandalf usef in the LoTR movie, I'm not interested.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I can only speak for myself, but I do think fireworks should be much more regulated. Each year 10,000 people get hurt from fireworks in the US alone, and it's pretty horrible for the environment. I do appreciate the cultural importance, so I don't think completely banning them is the solution, but I think it would be much better if there were just a few organized firework shows, and no more fireworks for private use.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    That makes a ton of sense. I’m in Canada, where they are regulated. You really only ever see fireworks at organized events put on by towns/cities, and they are always awesome. One of my favourite things to watch as a kid.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    I only know about Canadian fireworks regulations because of Letterkenny. But it definitely seems like there’s a lot more sensibility around their handling there, which I appreciate as an American who has to deal with inbred assholes celebrating their nation by blowing up a small part of it.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago*

    They're boring, loud, and pointless.

    I don't mind going to an actual coordinated show at a local beach, but every individual douchebag just shooting them off in their backyard for funsies is a fucking loser.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    I have pets and any firework related holiday I have to hole up with them all night to comfort them. And that's just on the days I know they will have them, basically all of autumn and winter have dickgeads randomly setting off fireworks for god knows what reason. It's hell

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    If you have a dog or a cat, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why some people don't like fireworks

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago

    My cats don't care at all. Fireworks are fun, and if dogs can't handle that then they're stupid. I set off a bunch of the big ones that are illegal but can be sold on reservations (I think? I didn't buy them) for my birthday out in the rural flat middle of nowhere and it was so cool. We had the hardest time lighting them because of the wind and then when we finally got it going we had to sprint away so fast, and we were laughing our asses off. Good mems. TL;DR fuck yo sensitive dumbass dogs

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Do you have any idea how many homeless (and some with homes too) animals die from heart attacks caused by fireworks?

    Or how many people with ptsd, anxiety, or other issues need to cover their windows and ears, just to not have a panic attack?

    All just so a bunch of retards can laugh about their great country.

    Same for all other countries on new year's eve. Except the ones that banned fireworks.

    I can excuse people having intellectual disabilities and not realizing this. But anyone who does and still chooses to play with fireworks belongs in a re-education camp.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Ive never heard of homeless or animals dying from fireworks. I’ve heard of animals getting frightened by loud noises like fireworks or thunder.

    All firework shows I’ve seen or heard of are planned, last like 10-15 minutes, and happen a handful of times per year. I’m sorry if it’s hard for you to get through some fireworks, but a lot of people really enjoy watching them.

    What do fireworks have to do with a single country? I realize you are talking about July 4, but I’m talking about fireworks in general. This has nothing to do with America.

    Oh I see, you just want to call anyone who doesn’t agree with you a retard. Classy.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    The U.S. literally started charging insane taxes right as the country began. They even teach Shays Rebellion in school.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    The whole story only makes sense through the propaganda lens, brave freedom fighters against an oppressive government taxing them for no reason.

    Then you read the actual context and it's a bunch of new aristocracy high on slave money mad that the empire refuses to let them expand past the boarders established in a war that benefited them and they are now having to pay taxes for.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Wait, what idiot thinks that the 4th of July is a celebration of not paying taxes?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    That's why I buy mine on the rez

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Then don't get the fireworks? I'm a huge advocate to just ban the entire thing worldwide anyways. Let the cities organize big shows but no private sales, it's massively wasteful for both your pockets and the environment.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    When we quit paying taxes... to England.

    It's a half thought, but anything sounds deep to a giant idiot.

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  • [–] -5 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Oh get over yourself. Most of us who did 6-7th grade history understand that the "no taxes" period of the Rev War was about everyone understanding if they cut off england they could take this massive new country for themselves. It wasn't but a few years before Hamilton and the rest had do the treasury and more.

    It isn't that it is "deep", it is that is a silly little jab at history.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Taxes pay for community benefits and projects like roads and police and fire services and public education and (ideally) healthcare. Those paying taxes should have representatives to help ensure their constituents are benefiting from the taxes they're providing.

    The American colonies were being taxed without representation and therefore meaningful benefits from the taxes they were paying. The British government was present in the colonies, but they were there for the purpose of trade and tax collection to benefit of the Crown and those in England.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (1 child)

    It's not silly. It's ignorant and dangerous.

    America is very broken, but the concept of taxes is how we have roads, bridges, first responders, teachers and a number of any decent society's basic needs that the free market didn't give a FUCK about.

    Too many ignorant folks who don't understand a progressive tax system, focus on the wrong "enemy" (the minimum wage either versus the trillionaire) and completely buy into the rhetoric you defend here that perpetuates that. And end up voting for people that take everything, build nothing and create the hell these purple irrationally feared in the first place.

    And you expect that general public to have internalized nuanced revolutionary war history to the point that they naturally draw any of that from your king of the hill meme?

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