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[–] 98 points 4 months ago* (44 children)

We didn’t quit paying taxes. We just quit paying unfair taxes to the Crown.

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  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    A reminder that the taxes in question were levied to recoup the costs of French and Indian War, which the colonists started.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    And, which was largely fought (and won) in a way that dramatically benefitted the colonists.

    Ever wonder why there are so many places with French names just slightly inland from the original 13 US colonies have French names?

    • Bayou La Batre, Decatur, Lapine, Leroi, Mon Louis, Dauphin Island, etc. Alabama
    • Louisville, Paris, Versailles, Montpelier, etc. in Kentucky
    • Leroy, Napoleon, Montpelier, Saint Croix, etc. in Indiana
    • Bellaire, Bellefontaine, Louisville, Marietta, etc. in Ohio
    • Dubois, Duquesne, Labelle, Fort le Boeuf, Eau Claire, etc. in Pennsylvania
    • The name "Michigan" itself (originally Ojibwe, but interpreted into French), and a whole lot of parts of that state, including Detroit
    • Ozark (aux arcs), Benoit, Bellefontaine, D'Iberville etc. in Mississippi

    New France went from the Gulf of Mexico north, included all the Great Lakes, and kept going up to Hudson's Bay. American settlers couldn't go west without entering New France, so England fought a war to allow the expansion west. It won that war. The resulting treaty gave the British colonists in the Americas a huge amount of territory they could expand into, leaving only a small amount behind for France and its native allies.

    The British colonists in the Americas were asked to help pay for the war that gave them that opportunity to expand west, and they rebelled. And then, after the rebellion, they decided they didn't need to abide by the terms of the British treaty with the French and took over most of the remaining land that France had been left after that war.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Didn't the boston tea party start because they lowered the price of legally imported (and thus taxed) tea, undermining smugglers?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    Yes, but it was also a grudge match between rivals. In one connected incident a locally-owned ship was burnt to the waterline to take out a competitor.

    The tea party was hugely damaging to the rebel cause, and leadership was furious. Just the sort of lawlessness the rebels were accused of standing for. It’s only several decades later that it was recast as an act of rebellion against the crown.

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  • [–] 38 points 4 months ago (29 children)

    Quit paying unfair taxes to the crown

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (28 children)

    "No taxation without representation". If the colonies got representatives in Parliament, that flag would look mighty different.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (23 children)

    Except that the British were offering that concession, and the negotiators for the colonists didn't want to take it because really the taxes and lack of representation were just an excuse.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (22 children)

    The British were also being ruled by someone with a genetic blood disease that makes you irrational and some form of major personality disorder, not exactly the most trustworthy negotiators.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (21 children)

    How directly was he involved in the negotiations? Often the king is the ultimate authority in a country, but they don't actually make many decisions themselves.

    It's well known that the colonists were looking for a reason to break away, and that the taxation issue was a convenient excuse. After all, taxation without representation was the norm. It wasn't like all of England had the vote and had representatives in parliament. Entire cities had zero representation but were still taxed. Ireland had been part of the British empire for ages and it didn't have representation.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    Well, having a verifiably insane monarch sure couldn't have helped.

    It's obviously foolish for anyone to try and argue exactly what happened when for which reasons, we weren't in those rooms having those conversations so we'll never really know. We do know that the colonists hated what they considered overreaching British control (it was kind of the reason they left in the first place), and we know that the British were broke af and desparate to wring every penny they could out of the colonies to pay for wars on the other side of the ocean (sounds familiar). But you bring up a good point in Ireland, they were famously treated so well by the British and therefore were predictably loyal and peaceful subjects of the Crown 🤣🤣🤣

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (19 children)

    We do know that the colonists hated what they considered overreaching British control

    Do we? Or is that the story that has been written after the fact to justify what they did and make it seem more noble?

    It sounds to me like you're a product of the US educational system and have accepted what you learned there without questioning it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (18 children)

    Yes we do, it's literally the reason they left in the first place. There were protests all across the colonies, the British even repealed the Stamp Act due to the blowback. There are pamphlets, books, and vast quantities of recorded speeches and debates from both sides of the Atlantic on the issue. From before the revolution.

    Sounds to me like you're a product of the Ignorant Blowhard educational system and have assumed you know everything about everything with little evidence to support the assumption.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (17 children)

    Yes we do, it's literally the reason they left in the first place.

    According to what you learned in an American elementary school?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (16 children)

    Nah, according to the Encyclopedia Britannica. Must be more American propaganda though I s'pose 🤣🤣🤣

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    They're of course going to give you the surface level, popular version of what happened. If you want to actually know the real story you need to talk to historians.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (14 children)

    No you need to talk to people who have been dead for hundreds of years, your entire argument is based on not trusting historians.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    Historians are the ones who break through the myths. Myths are what you're taught in school. In school they told you all about how the US founding fathers were heroic figures fighting for their freedom...

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (12 children)

    Did you forget how you wanted to end that or...? 🤷‍♂️

    Regardless, if you don't think historians are writing history books, what do you think they're doing? And no, in school they taught me that the US founding fathers founded the US, pretty objective stuff. You know, names, dates, locations, etc. I'm fascinated to hear what else you think I was taught though, this is fun!

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (11 children)

    Regardless, if you don't think historians are writing history books, what do you think they're doing?

    Researching it and writing papers for other historians.

    Do you think most historians write popular history books for non-historians?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (10 children)

    No, but I do think history books are by definition written by historians.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (9 children)

    So, you think anybody who writes a book about history is a historian? No wonder you are so lost.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    No, I think anyone who writes a book of historical facts (hence the name "history book") based on research is a historian. And if I were lost, that'd fall under cartography, not history. See, cartography is the study of making maps. Maps are to cartographers as history books are to historians. Make sense?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

    So, writing a book makes you a historian. It's not studying history?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    Damn, selective reading is a tough diagnosis. Is there a pattern, like you only understand every other word or something, or is it just completely random?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    Are you dodging the question? What makes someone a historian? Is anybody who writes a book on history automatically an authority on history?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Well this question is very different than the other question, but both are intentionally foolish misrepresentations of my statements so I reckon my answers would be "wrong" no matter what I said. So I'll just tell you what you wanted to hear the first time: yes, I think "writing a book makes you a historian". 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I know, you're trolling attempts were quite heavy-handed, gotta work on your subtlety!

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    We just like how the “un fair taxes” they teach is actually way lower than the taxes US citizens have now adays.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    The checks were unfair because they went to the crown rather than back to the American people who are paying them in the first place

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    So what is different now?

    Is Israel, Trump's ministers' pockets, insurance company executives, and the military industrial complex executives considered "the american people"?

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    And paid for wars that were fought for the benefit of the colonists. Similar to how US taxes today are paid to the state and are used to pay for wars that the government claims are for the benefit of the American people.

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