This is self explanatory; to all who do not support the idea of ownership, there shall be no more funding, regardless of their game's quality.

Advice:

buy from GOG, avoid single player games which require internet connection or 3 party launchers.

Repost from reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StopKillingGames/comments/1ugzirg/stoppayinggames/

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[–] 23 points 4 months ago

Most of those are ones i already hate.

My childhood friend and a common acquaintance work at Supercell. I once asked them what they think about the moral issue of putting paid loot boxes in games for children.

They had never heard of such a controversy and didn't understand why a fun and profitable feature would be somehow wrong.

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  • [–] 133 points 4 months ago (62 children)

    It is not self-explanatory. You needed to explain it. On its face, it sounds like it's saying to just pirate. I can get behind the message, but these three words aren't it. I know that coming up with effective, catchy slogans is hard, but this one's not going to do well.

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 4 months ago (42 children)

    Not pay and even if pirate don't promote these games

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago (41 children)

    If you're endorsing piracy as a political stance in any way, I don't see it gaining traction. People need to be paid for their work; especially those who built a product for you that's meant to last and can't be taken away from you. I don't know how you convey that in a three- or four-word slogan, but I don't think this one does it.

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  • [–] [S] 20 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    Well if single player game needs to connect to publisher sever to play then you don't buy this game and piracy is just preservation. I'm not endorsing piracy, but not condemning it.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I agree with the first sentence, but that's what I feel this slogan does a poor job of reinforcing.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    I would argue in some ways piracy is a progressive form of demonstration against a systematic problem, and in this case the bigger studies that milk users and take advantage of those doing the work.

    So telling people not to advocate with their form of protest is a bit unfair, it takes all tactics to get change. Its a bit like telling someone not to go out and march because you don't like that approach. People should get paid, but fairly. and consumers shouldn't be fleeced....So my sympathy for the studios involved is little theres been plenty of time to talk...they didnt listen, infact they stuck two fingers up.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    It's a convenient form of protest that just happens to get you stuff for free.

    I'm not better than pirates, I am one at times. I don't pretend like I'm doing something moral. I, like everyone else, do it so I can enjoy the content while saving the money for other things.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I have no qualms paying for products. I try make the right choices but bit by bit it becomes impossible as the tech around us becomes more authoritative, more greedy, more invasive, more enshitified, less fair.

    Streaming is a great example. Nearly all of them don’t treat staff well, they use profits to lobby or abuse their positions. I am happy to pay for content. I am not happy to pay to perpetuate bad behavior. Hence I’d like have an offline collection…but if I simply can’t buy it…then it becomes a service problem.

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago (30 children)

    People need to be paid for their work

    The dogged insistence that piracy of a corporate product impacts the pay of it's employees neglects how the wage system works.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago* (26 children)

    The wages only appear if the thing they produce creates profits for the corporation. If they continually produce something that doesn't sell, they won't have a job anymore. And I'll raise you another part of this equation. If you pirated Assassin's Creed: Shadows because you hate Ubisoft or whatever, that game will take somewhere between 35 and 65 hours for most people to finish, according to How Long to Beat. That's 35 to 65 hours that you weren't spending in some other game, perhaps a game that respects your values enough that you'd part with your money to play. Maybe that's Kingdom Come: Deliverance II or The Alters or Knights in Tight Spaces; whatever your preferences are, there's some other game that also didn't get your money because you were playing that pirated game instead, and I picked those three examples because they're recent and run a range of different developer/publisher models while still being DRM-free.

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    What are you talking about? Game devs are constantly being laid off even after the product they create, creates profits for the corp.

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    That's a different story entirely. That's poor allocation of resources on large projects, when certain disciplines needed at the end of a project don't necessarily have work to do at the beginning of another. The money that hired those people in the first place still came from selling the company's previous video games.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Eh, there are enough news reports of record profit game sales followed by massive layoffs to say otherwise. The poor allocation of resources you're talking about? Bonuses to upper management :/

    I will 100% pay full price for an indie-published game, or for a game published by an honorable corp. If that company is fucking over its development team, layed off the development team after a successful launch, or is doing some unscrupulous shit, the black flag is raised.

    If further projects by that big corp aren't funded, oh no! That's the point. Starve the bastards enough that they change their ways or give up the game.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Eh, there are enough news reports of record profit game sales followed by massive layoffs to say otherwise.

    That doesn't dispute what I said in the slightest.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    The wages only appear if the thing they produce creates profits for the corporation.

    Would you take a job that requires years to complete and forego wages until it retails?

    Nobody actually works like that.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    No, they typically don't. That's more what startups do. In the corporate world, the schedules are amortized, but the money has to come from somewhere.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    And yet there are free indie games out there that are generally better than the corp funded crap. Creators will create, no matter what happens.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    You'll find far fewer of them creating when they need to spend more of their time at a job that will allow them to feed their families. And I don't think the games I've found for free (actually free, not given away for free once as a promo) have tended to be better than the paid ones.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I've put more hours into Infiniminer, Minetest/Luanti, Industry, Dopewars, dnd, dopewars, and various Twine/Frotz games than any corporate games. When I do want an FPS (rare), I look at Doom sourceports and maybe Cube/Sauerbraten.

    And there's the real time-murderer: Nethack.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    Having a personal taste and preference that lets you enjoy free indie and/or old DOS games is great for your wallet, saying these games are "generally better" than paid-for games funded by corporations is wild to me.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    The wages only appear if the thing they produce creates profits for the corporation.

    That's entirely untrue. Plenty of people get paid to make games that flop.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (10 children)

    Not for more than one or two games in a row.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    Blizzard has been churning out flops for over a decade

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    What? They haven't been flopping either critically or commercially. Even Overwatch 2 and Diablo Immortal, with vocal dissatisfaction from players, still made tons of money.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Even Overwatch 2 and Diablo Immortal, with vocal dissatisfaction from players, still made tons of money.

    Microsoft reported an initial $570 million operating loss from the acquisition in one quarter alone, citing acquisition-related expenses and costs associated with restructuring.

    Meanwhile, Blizzard experienced a decline of up to 63 million Monthly Active Users (MAUs) across various titles, suffering when releases like Call of Duty failed to meet aggressive sales expectations.

    They're certainly still generating revenue but the studio hasn't been profitable in some time.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    You are mixing units and data at this point. Acquisitions cost money. Blizzard and Call of Duty come in the same purchase. Call of Duty had a bad release this past year. And none of those things are a measure of how profitable Blizzard games are.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    Acquisitions cost money.

    And that drives up costs, which cuts into profit.

    Call of Duty had a bad release this past year.

    Did the developers get paid for their labor?

    none of those things are a measure of how profitable Blizzard games are

    Revenue - Cost = Profit

    This is Business 101.

    But plenty of businesses operate at a loss, when they can generate surplus cash through investment. You don't need to generate profit to pay wages. In some cases (the AI companies being a great modern example) you can pay incredibly generous salaries while running enormous losses.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Not forever. The profits need to outweigh the losses, and the rest comes down to averages. That's how all of this works.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    If you're waiting forever to collect your paycheck, you've already been rooked.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Are you willfully misunderstanding at this point? Those wages come from averages and projections based on past results of how much money previous games make. If they continually don't make money, their jobs disappear, because the work they're doing no longer justifies how much it costs to pay them to do it.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Those wages come from averages and projections based on past results

    Again, I'm going to point you to the AI industry, which has never posted a profit but which still pays some of the highest salaries in the industry.

    You're also fully neglecting the concept of the Loss Leader which exists to onboard people to a system despite losing money on a given product.

    Not even discussing the hobbyist developers (originating whole genres of gameplay purely out of personal passions), the notion that games will go away or that studios must be profitable isn't reflective of how games are developed in reality.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    None of those things can happen indefinitely. Loss leaders make up their profits on the back end; the classic example in this industry is selling a console at a loss while selling software at higher margins.

    AI is still in the investment phase. By anyone's account, this is a bubble about to burst, investing in something that doesn't generate enough money to justify the investment. It won't do that forever. I'd be surprised if it continues without a major correction in a few years. No one can predict how or when it will happen, but we've seen so many bubbles throughout history. They all need sustainable profit eventually, or they become a disaster. Gaming already had its own bubble in the wake of the pandemic, and that's where these layoffs are coming from.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Living in some fantasy land where never paying artists for their work magically results in them being compensated is pointless.

    If you want to pirate, go ahead. I have. I don't pretend it's the "moral" thing to do.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    People need to be paid for their work;

    Then they need to quit fucking over their paying customers

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Plenty of them aren't. Pay them.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    I seriously don't know how you're this off mark about all of this. No one has said to pirate games from companies that doesn't do what the thread is about. It's literally only about either pirating or not playing the specific games from the companies who shut down games.

    You're on the verge of being like that Pirate Software dude who is against the SKG movement because he's so fucking dumb that he doesn't understand the extremely obvious and clearly communicated points.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Piracy of shitty AAA games sends a simple message: “These games aren’t shitty! They’re STUPENDOUS!!! But they just need to work a liiiitle harder on DRM systems to lock thieves out of it.”

    Besides, I know very few pirates that draw a firm line between AAA/indie pirating. Many will shift excuses at will to play what they want.

    My reaction is simple: Don’t play bad games. Piracy has no entry point to that equation.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (17 children)

    I am going to be frank, most people don't care about piracy. You making it the crux of this issue is a red hearing and disingenuous. It is something a corporate shill would bring up.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    Being frank, nothing will come of a movement about consumer rights if it looks like you just want to get things for free.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (10 children)

    Listen, as long as we allow corporations to ruin culture we will never be happy. There is no magical world where we respect copyright and corporate rule and get what we want.

    Your opinion is simply wrong for multiple reasons. That is okay.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Picture a neutral voter reading two different headlines. Importantly, picture the voter’s reaction. How they show support in legislative bodies is important.

    1: Purchases of newer video games have gone way down. Consumers are reportedly pirating them instead.

    “God, the younger generation is so incredibly entitled. People slave away on these things and they just want to steal them? Makes me think that ballot question they had about ‘Stop Killing Games’ was just about making them easier to steal. What pathetic thieves.”

    2: Purchases of newer video games have gone way down. Consumers are reportedly buying many indie games instead.

    “Wow, I should look into some of these ‘indie’ games if they’re so good. Sounds like there’s a lot of money in them now! If they spend that much on the hobby, I guess it makes sense they’d push that legislation about consumer rights.”

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Picture actual headlines.

    Gaming is pricing people out of the hobby

    You don't own what you purchase

    The major players are using their monopoly powers to drive up prices

    All the major studios that make the games you love were bought up and now are being shuttered

    AI is replacing programmers and artists

    Also, we ain't winning this battle by convincing the poors to care about video games preservation.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    What game company has monopoly powers?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    I can't dictate whether or not you pirate; I just think you can help influence the world in a more positive way if you don't. There are games made by people who worked hard and aren't employed by a corporation. I would encourage you to buy from them, because you can show that you value their hard work and want them to keep doing it. Games have the good fortune of being more democratized than other media, so even if they have the lion's share of the market, you can go on enjoying video games, even paying for video games, without giving those corporations the time of day.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    You don't have to explain to me, I already know. I said you were wrong and I meant it. There is not going to be a corporation that is not enshitified. Did you miss all of the independent studious being bought up and now closed.

    They are destroying our culture and the best you can muster is buy ethically? We are far beyond that rhetoric now. Like I said before it is okay. You have not really thought about what is going on and there is no shame in that.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    No, I didn't miss the independent studios being bought up, nor did I miss the countless others formed in their wake and free from corporate control. I'm not ashamed that I have a realistic view of the world, and I find yours to be childish.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    More independent studios to be forced to use corporate stores to sell digital merchandise that can be revoked at any time. The only person acting childlike is you playing pretend that this is acceptable.

    I totally get it, you want to ride your high horse into the sunset. Do a us all a favor and do this. You don't have answers, you just want the status quo and we are all tired of it already.

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  • [+] -11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    You're so fucking wrong and so fucking dumb it's not even funny. Every single comment you've made here shows an immense inability to understand basic things and a major lack of knowledge about anything related to any of this.
    It's almost impressive, but in truth just sad and cringe.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It is something a corporate shill would bring up.

    This is such a pathetic, thoughtless dismissal of an argument.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago

    First thing that is brought up is piracy and you think it is something other than what a corporate shill would say? The only thing that is pathetic is another bootlicker showing up to muddy the water with garbage.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago* (8 children)

    joke on you im playing retro games!!!!

    EDIT: but no seriously playing retro games is a great alternative then playing what's new

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 4 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] [S] 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Shouldn't it be #VoteWithYourWallet?

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    If buying is not ownership, piracy is not stealing.

    Fuck em.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I would like a law that says the publisher/owner/digital store has to remove any server pings and anti-cheat through a standalone update that can be shared and downloaded once they abandon support. This would go for games and any other digital media, alternatively they would have to offer a refund.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    Should I feel bad for assuming any company's name that ends in "group" probably do some heinous shit

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I'm going to be honest, this sounds like an astroturf campaign trying to reduce SKG into absurdity to harm it's credibility.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I agree with the thrust of this, but I have no faith in the resolve of the average consumer to make a difference.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    The average consumer has pirated a videogame. It's not hard to do. We only not do it because steam is slightly easier, and you lose online/achievements, and because it's not morally right. However, that one last barrier has fallen.

    If buying is not owning, using without paying is not stealing. There is no moral issue on pirating videogames, just do it.

    (All of this only applies to big companies ofc)

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    I’m assuming this also applies to Consoles as well: Sony removed purchased movies from people’s Sony Pictures Core app. I wonder if, or when, they’ll decide to do the same to games.

    If it does come to that: what are our options as console gamers (other than piracy)? Buying physical discs?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I kinda hate to say it, but consoles are designed with these companies in mind. The whole idea of locking the ecosystem to only companies Sony / Microsoft / Nintendo approves of and making the process to get in expensive, time consuming, and often hostile to creative autonomy, incentivizes exactly these kinds of companies to go all in, since they have plenty of money and know with a captive audience they will get more out of it.

    Prices kind of suck right now, so there's no easy solution. But the only real long term solution is to move to an open platform where you have the control, not them. And that's going to require sacrifice, because the deck is stacked against you. Or if you have enough faith, for enough people to stand up when they need to. Because the power for you yourself to resist was intentionally already taken from you.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    What would be an open platform for consoles?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    I mean it really depends on what your wishes would be. If you're thinking big and long term then someone could really go all in on capturing the console crowd with an entirely new console ecosystem. You could definitely simplify an OS like Linux to be a lot more to be more console oriented, such as what SteamOS is already trying to do for Steamdeck and the Steam machine. Even though that will be a balancing act with the openness of the system, since 'making sure you can't easily break this' also makes it hard or impossible to break out of it in case of a change of heart.

    But the whole thing with open systems is that they can do very similar things to other open systems. Which is why Linux and Windows (and sometimes Mac) are packed together under the same umbrella. So it would have to content with those three and provide clear upsides to developers, businesses, or players over those, which is hard. That's part of the reason why the big businesses love consoles, because the freedom they take from players, double as tools for them to earn more money.

    Most realistically in that route, would be for either Sony, Xbox, or Nintendo, to change their tune and go down that route instead. But that would require immense force from the players to offset the profit lost from changing the status quo. So it really isn't that realistic sadly. Xbox wouldn't do it anyways because it's essentially already even more locked down Windows. Nintendo relies on their exclusives to sell their consoles. Sony would be least unlikely to do it but they recently stopped selling their exclusives on PC because (almost) nobody jumped ship back to Playstation.

    The closest and 'easiest' jump in the short term is probably to small formfactor PC hooked up to your TV using eg. SteamOS. Controller support is pretty widely supported nowadays. And since most console game developers also develop for PC, you won't have any issue missing out on your games unless it's Nintendo or exclusives (but that's probably another reason to jump too). With some technical knowledge you could do it without spending a single cent on Steam / Valve if that's your concern. Since you could just run a Linux based system on a mini-PC or console formfactor with eg. Brazzite or another console OS lookalike.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    That makes sense. Regarding your comment re:

    “You could definitely simplify an OS like Linux to be more console oriented

    I keep seeing videos on YouTube of people installing Ubuntu on their PS5’s - do you think this will gain traction with Sony and Microsoft and allow consumers to install a Linux distro officially like how Steam has SteamOS?

    I also notice that when there is a discussion or video regarding modding a console, it’s to “preserve” its longevity rather than having a practical use.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    Installing Linux on PS5 is an exploit as far as I understand it, and requires specific software versions that are already long outdated at this point. But PS5 already runs a Unix like kernel as far as I know. So yes, it would be possible to do it on them if Sony or Microsoft allowed it. Though I doubt they ever will since you could not run Playstation or Xbox games on Linux without huge investment from their side. It's a solution for those looking to jump without the hardware cost, but I am a little anxious in recommending it since Sony full well considers it still their device. And Nintendo has recently shown they aren't shy from just bricking banning your device from their services if they think you're not using it the way they want, I would expect the same from Sony. But if you do it right, probably no way for them to find out. But you could never go back to it just being a Playstation 5 too. In the end it's essentially the same path as my first proposal.

    I also notice that when there is a discussion or video regarding modding a console, it’s to “preserve” its longevity rather than having a practical use.

    I think that's in part because it's an attempt to tiptoe around the 'red lines' of console manufacturers. It's trying to stay as inoffensive as possible so that it doesn't get put into the same bag as emulators or third party tools to circumvent DRM.

    EDIT: The switch example wasn't bricked, but it was banned from using the official services, which isn't much better, but still a distinction to be made.

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