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Pay your employees a living wage (media.piefed.zip)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/microblogmemes@lemmy.world
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Pay your employees a living wage

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[–] 107 points 4 months ago (24 children)

I went to the US in 2024 and it was outrageous, every card terminal asked for it

I was under the impression it was just for sit down meals and not stuff like Starbucks or non food related things

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  • [–] 67 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    It is just for sit down meals and personal service. If someone is handling your car or your luggage or delivering food to your house, or cutting your hair that's personal service.

    The kiosks ask because they can blame the software and get away with it.

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  • [–] 42 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    What you are describing is a major contributor to tip fatigue. Everything is asking for a tip, meanwhile actual tipped employees are still making $2 an hour. It's out of control.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Hold up, you're missing some nuance and it's gonna make Europeans in here believe it's true. In the US, any job can collect tips, it's literally free extra money for no extra work so that's why you see the tip option everywhere. That said, not all positions which collect tips get the service industry $2 minimum wage.

    Most positions such as barista, hair stylist, etc get paid minimum wage plus they get whatever tips you give pay them. These positions typically get minimum wage because, despite there being a tip option, most people don't tip significantly (hair stylist might depending on the type, but their base fees are already very high). Think of these as your $1 tip category, it's people who you aren't socially obligated to tip, don't expect a tip, get paid at least minimum wage regardless of your tip, and contribute to tip fatigue.

    The other tip group are full tip positions, such as waiter or bartender. These positions get $2 an hour unless they fail to get enough tips on average to meet the $7 minimum wage. Realistically, if they aren't getting at least $7 minimum in tips then they are going to leave or get fired long term. These positions you are socially obligated to tip and they expect a tip. Strangely enough, some of the biggest proponents for this tipping position are the people that work in this field, career waiters and bartenders, because despite the very low potential income it also has a fairly high potential income for a low skill job depending on a lot of different factors. This is your percentage tip category.

    The $1 tip category won't go away, no matter how annoying it is, because it's literally free money and no one expects you to do it (and if they do feel free to laugh in their face and never give them business again). The % tip category also probably won't go away because it allows the business to shift costs to the customer and the people in the career support it.

    You might wonder why people in the % tip category would support it, it's because it's a low technical skill job (hard work only), a lot of the tips are tax free, people who don't like it leave the career, and it often attracts certain types of people (perhaps neurodivergent is the right word, but I really mean the type of people who don't want a 9-5 Mon-Fri job).

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yes, but you can't just ask someone "Do you make minimum wage? I need to know so I can decide how much to tip."

    I don't know how much is normal to tip at some places. At restaurants, 20% is standard, Β±5% depending on quality of service.

    But at a coffee shop or a hairdresser or anywhere else like that, when the prompt for a tip comes up, I'd feel guilty to put anything lower than 20% because that's how I'm programmed to feel about tipping. It would feel rude to press "no tip" or just $1 or just 5%. But also, cognitively I know 20% is too much for those roles because they already make at least minimum wage. But asking "what's the normal amount to tip" seems rude too.

    So I usually end up overtipping, even when it puts a strain on my finances. And that moves the overton window and begins to ingrain the obligation into cultural expectations. And that's precisely what the vendors want to happen. They want you to feel guilty so you tip too much, so that it becomes normal to tip too much and people have the option of "no tip" gradually taken away from them.

    That's why in Europe when you use those american POS machines, the staff will click "no tip" for you before even handing you the machine. One, because they don't want to guilt you into tipping, and two because they don't want tipping culture to sneak into their societies. Because if it does, not only will it become a social obligation that no one wants, but it could also potentially give employers permission down the line to start paying less, the way they do in the US.

    European wait staff like being payed a living wage without relying on tips. And you can feel the difference. They're not nearly as stressed out as servers in the US, and the interactions feel more genuine because they don't need to kowtow or be obsequious.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    When it comes to % tips, back in the day the base number was 15%, I personally feel like that isn't enough today. I start with 20% and then deduct for poor service (EDIT: it takes some pretty poor service for me to deduct at all, I would say 95% of the time I leave a 20% tip), I never leave zero tip, but I will leave a bad tip, and if I keep having bad service I just won't come back. I would say my floor for a % tip is 10%. If service is so bad that I wouldn't leave even that, then I have and will stand up and leave early. This is the kind of situation where I ordered a soda, 30 minutes passed, and the waiter never came back. Hey, I'm out, here is $5 for the soda and I'm probably never coming back here.

    As to when I % tip, my personal rule is that it's only for seated service which I qualify as the following: Someone seats me, someone comes to the table and takes my order, someone comes to the table to refill drinks and bring my food, and someone comes to clean the table when I leave. If any of these is not happening then I probably am not going to % tip. Did I have to order from a counter, did I have to go get my food, did I have to fill my own drink, did I have to dispose of the waste myself? There are certainly exceptions to this rationale, but I would say 90% of the time it works.

    Some area for nuance is fair. If I sat myself, ordered from a counter but a lady brought it out to me, and she filled up my drink, but I threw the tray contents away I might leave her a few bucks if I have cash, but won't feel like I have to. Another good rule is that if you have to pay before the service is completed then I'm not tipping 99% of the time.

    hairdresser or anywhere else like that, when the prompt for a tip comes up,

    Hairdressers are a bit special and depend on the type. If you're a white man going for a 15 min buzz cut and paid $20, no tip. If you are a black woman with 2 feet of hand braided hair and you are getting your hair done every 3 weeks (unbraid, cut, wash, dry, maybe color?, condition, rebraid), that hair styling is like 4+ hours of work, their fee is probably $300+ and you will probably tip them $50+ easily.

    the staff will click β€œno tip” for you before even handing you the machine.

    Hehehehe, in the US sometimes those fuckers will push the 25% before handing it to you. I get feeling bad, but it's important to set rules for what you think is fair and then follow them, even if that means telling them to take the check back and put in a different %. I'll go one better, back in college a group of friends went out and due to our party size the establishment automatically added a 15% tip. One of my friends laughed and told the waiter to take his check back and to redo the tip, the waiter was at first like, "Sorry sir, but our policy is to add 15% to all groups of 8 or more" but my friend said, "No, you were a great waiter and I want to tip you 20%, but you didn't give me any place to do that on this bill."

    European wait staff like being payed a living wage without relying on tips. And you can feel the difference. They’re not nearly as stressed out as servers in the US, and the interactions feel more genuine because they don’t need to kowtow or be obsequious.

    I think this is a great point and hits on part of the problem. American service staff is a career of delusion, similar to construction. On paper they see they can make X amount of money, but they never do, they don't think they need benefits because they're young and healthy, and they think they will be as fit as they are in their 20's forever but they won't. Construction and service alike are exploitative and they aren't in a healthy place, but withholding tips from the worker doesn't fix that situation and just hurts the employee.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    barista

    Wow. I’m in Australia and the person who gets most of my tips is a barista, anywhere

    I generally empty my change in the tip jar if they have one and the service is good. I believe in tipping good service

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    100% agree and that's why people do give the barista a dollar or two. If your drink was $5 then 20% works out to be about a dollar, but it's different from servers who get 20% on $40. At least in the US, if you frequent somewhere, especially if you are a recognized regular, then you should tip because people will remember it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    If I was in the US, and I bought a coffee equivalent to what my local gives me, I’d happily tip regardless of culture or wage. The cafe down the road is insanely good, but there’s not a lot of bad coffee around here.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I would say that experiences vary greatly and there are plenty of discerning people who appreciate great coffee. Local coffee shops in the US are plentiful, but we perhaps get a bad reputation because of McDonalds and Starbucks. There is something to be said for just wanting a coffee or espresso right now quickly without too much regard for quality or price, that's where McDonalds and Starbucks reign. Personally, I never order from either because their coffee and espresso is bad IMO. Now, my local coffee joint (which is a local place that operates out of a shack with a drive through) makes great coffee and I always give them a dollar or two.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    In the USA, it is illegal for anyone to make less than federal minimum wage. If a tipped employee does not earn tips, the employer must make up the difference. To not do so is wage theft and illegal.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    It doesn't work on a per-shift basis. If they work a slow, below-minimun weekday and a busy, above-minimum weekend, they aren't bumped up on the weekday. What actually happens is their weekend is counted against their weekday. Many shifts they do in fact walk out with sub-minimum wages that do not get corrected.

    It's a system that's great for the rockstars is busy urban areas pulling in hundreds of dollars a shift. For everyone else in the industry, not so much.

    "But overall they're making above minimum."

    While true, it's similar to a laborer working a 12 hour shift and not getting any OT because they're under 40 for the week and OT doesn't kick in until hour 41. They still worked a 12 hour shift and 4 of those hours should have been OT, but due to how the hours are counted their employer is able to avoid the payout.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    My fucking girlfriend always asks me if I tip when we get counter service and there's a prompt on the pos, and I can't get thru to her that unless it's sit down, a bar, or delivery I don't tip unless there's an actual reason to do so.

    I fucking hate that there's a cultural guilt in this country of wasting 15-20% extra on food to uphold a fucking post-slavery jim crow policy.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    somewhere around 2020 everyone and their mother starting asking for tips, even places that don't pay tip-based wages. it's just pure corporate greed over here. my guess is that it's on by default by the payment processors and most people don't turn it off.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago*

    This is a product of the myriad of unconfigured PoS systems. If you just Google shit you're supposed to tip for before going into a country, you should be good to go. It's the same thing I do when I travel. While I do agree that the tipping culture sucks, I think it's more rude as a visitor to completely ignore social norms and constructs.

    Travelers who aren't tipping are just stiffing a waiter who is working their ass off during the busiest time for their establishment and probably making that person sour on whatever country they're from. I can't realistically see how this path leads to meaningful change or righteousness.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Not sure where you live but this is now also the case in Germany

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    That's because businesses use POS machines with american software. It's all over Europe now, but usually the staff will click "no tip" before handing it to you, because they don't want tipping culture sneaking in and threatening their livable wage.

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    • [–] 260 points 4 months ago (44 children)

    Be honest; No one that would travel from Europe to the World Cup cares one bit about social issues.

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  • [–] 124 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (34 children)

    Of course not, the tip is just viewed as an additional surcharge and they don't want to spend that money. The social issue is very likely, if at all, just an after-the-fact rationalisation/justification.

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  • [+] -13 points 4 months ago (34 children)
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  • [–] 90 points 4 months ago* (24 children)

    If you're going to the US, you're supporting whatever is going on over there. It makes you worse than the many people in the US that were born there for no fault of their own, now trying to work against it.

    Schadenfreude, while very natural, is bad enough by itself, actually increasing the Schaden is even worse. So I'm not sure exactly what you'd be celebrating, except your own shittyness.

    And I'm not from the US, so "my" nation isn't even the one you're talking about.

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  • [–] 64 points 4 months ago (19 children)

    It's rough seeing how smug europeans are about american fascism when every time you look at european news you see their own fascist splinter groups gaining more political traction with none of them really doing anything about it. Maybe worry about yourselves before worrying about us, right?

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  • [–] 28 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately, the US regularly intervenes in foreign countries' affairs, so it's not possible and geopolitically pretty stupid to not worry about the US. You can worry about both, though.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You are not wrong, but fucking all american shit comes here with a 10 year delay for some reason (obesity, economic crisis, far right/proto fascism, anti vax, neoliberalism, the list goes on and on and on) so maybe that's why people like to have a go at your country when it looks like you're beating up yourselves while making it a spectacle.

    I hope you'll finally figure it out, good luck!

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    You know that almost all far right parties in Europe get money from the MAGAts, right?

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah. It's interesting they all working together (despite being nationalistic) sending each other funds, and they all have a very positive view towards Russia.

    I'm surprised there people who believe it is all organic.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    About a decade ago, Steve Bannon very overtly came to Europe with money from the Koch Foundation openly to "Fund Far-Right parties".

    In many places in Europe the rise of the Far-Right happened after that.

    Similarly, in Britain it turned out that most of the social media manipulation in favor of Leave was done by Cambridge Analitica, a British company which was being paid to do it by wealthy Americans.

    America actively funds the Far-Right in Europe, especially the anti-EU crowd since EU member nations were a lot easier to push around by America and American interests individually, than they are grouped into the EU (even if parts of the EU, such as the EU Commission, have pretty much sold themselves out to large American companies)

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    They’re doing the same in Australia right now, as well. It’s a full scale assault too. We now have a fucking CPAC, we’re being inundated with MAGA style bots and all this loony, loopy, violent, degenerate leftie socialist shit.

    Our politics has gone from being something we thought about and did rationally every few years to being saturated and bludgeoned with this tribal crap every day.

    That’s why Murdoch went there…he wasn’t able to do here or in the UK what he could do there, because the fertile ground for it existed.

    The fact remains, the US is going to have to find something to rally around to improve their society, even if it isn’t this. They are where they are because they refuse to do anything about their situation, from voting, right through to now probably having to go into peaceful shutdown. They’ll find every excuse around it and expect the rest of us to understand and sympathise, like having to tip because the workers depend on it. It’s like being held hostage in a way; you know the worker will suffer if we don’t pay the tip.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    And MAGAts got their money from far right Europeans. What's your point?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Uhhuh sure buddy. Lets pretend its spooky secretive europeans funding the american fascism parties.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    That dude you are replying to, is the exact top of the bell curve when it comes to American intellect. He heard/read some things, and because he likes what he hears, he parrots it. He has no logic, he has no deeper understanding. He sees neither the tactical short term problems, nor the strategic long term effects. He is blissfully ignorant. A happy pig in his slop.

    His ignorance is equal to your knowledge, in his eyes.

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  • [+] -8 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    Your country started that. And because your double agent of a president is Putin’s pawn, guess what? Putin received leeway to muddy Europe’s water too, with an unstoppable hybrid war. Every news article, every forum, every community I used to visit is now filled with bots that, as soon as politics is mentioned, chimes in about the β€œrapist immigrants that are stealing your job” and how β€œEurope is a failed continent that’ll turn your kids trans/gay”.

    It’s hilarious, isn’t it? US and Russia shit on ME and Africa, which causes a huge wave of political and war refugees/economic immigrants to run from the horrors that YOUR country is responsible for.

    And instead of us trying to think how to handle the piece of shit to the East, and how to protect our borders from illegal immigration, we have an ex-ally to the West, who is eyeing sovereign European territory.

    And you have the audacity to call us smug? No, we are just familiar with history and evil men in power.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Europe invented fascism I don't care :)

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah but then they don't get to circlejerk about how superior they are.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago*

    The problem is that the 340 million people there are incredibly diverse. While a large part would circlejerk about how superior they are, another large part wouldn't. It's easy and fun to lump all Americans together, and even mandated by our brains inability to process such large numbers, but doing it always unfortunately alienates the ones that do not exhibit the traits you ridicule.

    It's so much better (and useful) to just ridicule the traits/behaviors themselves instead of the relatively unrelated nationality. There's nationalists and smug superiority everywhere.

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  • [+] -8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I wouldn't go there because I don't have an X or twitter for them to interrogate my opinions.. and I'm far too jokey to not upset people and get myself in trouble with people in "authority".

    I've gotta wait out the American decline until some time after Balkanisation and they start removing some of the guns. Honestly, it seems about as sensible as going to do tourism in the congo.

    Join in with us, pass the popcorn then.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Celebrating other people's misery is the reason humans could never get along in the first place. It's tribalism, same thing they've used for thousands of years to divide people.

    Don't worry, European countries have their own fascism problem, not far behind the U.S.

    Then we can all be miserable together.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    And this will be the first time in history that fascists in power have access to a fully-immersive (and inescapable) digital panopticon complete with AI to process more data that humans would be capable of doing unassisted, and adding concerningly high rates of hallucinations on top of it, even aside from the biases and spins that are baked into their algorithms...

    Oh and military technology has come a long way since the last time fascists gained enough influence to threaten the world order...

    This isn't going to be good if we can't all pull ourselves out of this death spiral before it's too late...

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    How you invested bud?

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Also, all the bars and restaurants started tacking a 20% "tip" straight into the bill instead of making it voluntary.

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  • [+] -8 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    I wouldn't blame them after these reports. Need to hold rude Europeans accountable.

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  • [+] -6 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Or you know. Fuck tipping culture instead of paying your employees. The bar is charging $8 for 80 cents of bottom shelf booze in a mixed drink and right now they're swamped in business with people racking up hundreds in drinks and bar food. You don't think they could afford to bonus out their staff?

    Fuck you.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    You dont have to come here shit bag. Nice job proving magats right about how awful forgeners are.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    oh look. Someone who thinks they earned an extra $20 for walking over a couple plates, when other people did all the work preparing it.

    Literally the only people against getting rid of tipping and making the owners pay a real wage are the wait staff. They don't want to pay taxes on everything they make, and they know that they'd make less money if they were just paid by the hour.

    They even got greedy as hell trying to push the normal up to 20% or more. The standard tip used to be between 10% and 15% for decades. The price of food and eating out has gone up with inflation, so why would that percentage need to change?

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    • [–] 62 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    A tip is meant to be "Here's an extra $10, I know you're already getting paid a living wage, but you went above and beyond and were the star show the show, you deserve it." That's not what we have in the USA, we have some broken tipped minimum wage that makes it feel like an obligation. It's broken.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    It’s also the same in Canada. The tipping has also been in fast-food and other stores, and I’ve just been saying β€œskip” every time. Like, food’s expensive enough these days without tipping someone who hasn’t even gone out from behind the counter and who will, quite possibly, not even see the tip.

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    • [–] 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    America has entered the smug European fucking over the locals phase of being a third world country

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    [–] 22 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I never before thought about FIFA bringing attention to social issues but think about it, the book the spotlight on Qatar, and now the United States, they should probably go to North Korea next.

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    • [–] 47 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Before you say this is great, remember that those people willingly traveled to the US for a fascist event.

    Any way the US could keep them?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    Honestly, there's nothing funny about any of this.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    There was nothing funny about joking about glassing the middle east or invading europe, but here we are.

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    [–] 16 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Fun fact: These states require tippable workers to be paid the full minimum wage:

    • Alaska
    • California
    • Guam
    • Minnesota
    • Nevada
    • Oregon

    Source: Department of Labor - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Oh great...minimum wage (lol)

    At least something in hellscape USA

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Yeah, how does that work, the other states don't require paying the "minimum wage"? Then that's demonstrably not the minimum wage eh, if an employer can pay less?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Yes. In most states, tipped positions can be paid like $2/hour

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    $2.13 to be exact, or at least what I "made". You don't get a paycheck, they "pay you" by using that wage for your taxes. Then you keep all of your tips. Cash is king, card tips are electronic so those are reported as taxable income. No bartender or server is reporting their cash tips.

    It is still mandaded by federal minimum wage though - if you don't bring in enough tips for the hours worked to cover the $7.25 (or state minimum wage I would asssume - my state is the federal so I'm not sure), the employer is responsible for paying you minimum wage

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Wow, what state are you in?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Good ol Georgia. Lots of states still go by federal minimum, but the covering of min wage happens regardless of state. It rarely happens but your employer isn't completely off the hook or paying you peanuts like is always suggested. You don't ever get a "paycheck" but you'll always be covered.

    That's why I preferred working to-go. I got a base of $9.50 an hour since it wasn't a "tipped" position but on weekends I could still pull in $70+ from tips on top of that

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Generally speaking, in states where the tipped minimum wage is lower than the standard, the employer is required to pay the difference if the tips do not meet that minimum. It's a fucked practice, but that's how they justify it.

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    • [–] 15 points 4 months ago

    Tbh, this is a distraction. News channels pointing to those (few probably) pesky foreigners refusing to tip, and everyone falls for the rage bait.

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