What's the difference for a real user between using X11 or Wayland nowdays? I haven't found anything useful on the internet, so I'm asking you. Internet articles on the topic (and about WMs too) seem to be advertising slop since they explain anything but the real things. Also, if anyone used the XLibre fork, I would love to hear about your experience with it.

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[–] 52 points 4 months ago

As some general advice: If you don't know the specifics, just go with your Linux distribution's defaults. They probably have this figured out for you. Wayland is the more modern approach. We had a long transitioning period and some things didn't work for a while or were missing. I'd say it's ready by now. And if your distro maintainers also think it's time to supersede the old X server, it probably is.

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  • [–] 72 points 4 months ago

    Wayland is more secure than x11 by design and more concise in scope. Notably it supports contemporary display technologies like display independent scaling, VRR, colour space (HDR) and several others.

    Wayland is made by the x11 people.

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago*

    Security

    When you use X11, you allow any program running on your computer to access anything on your screen and clipboard, collect your keystrokes and type. It's trivial to implement a keylogger, for example. Do not buy into the whole "no viruses on Linux" thing, it's not true and likely to become even less and less true, as desktop Linux is becoming popular.

    Wayland at least tries to put some barriers in place against this.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago

    On most distros Wayland is trouble free and x11 is a thing of the past. X11 made some things simpler like screen share with somebody , but Linux is growing large enough that Wayland (that is secure) is the best choice. You don't want your x11 screen duplicated on a malware attackers screen etc.

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    X11 is still server-first and needs workarounds to run locally (like startx, sx), while Wayland can just be run. Unlike X, it isolates every processes access to other windows, but with slow adoption of protocols for things like screen-sharing, video conferences, accessibility tools. The tooling is not yet there imo.

    That's the main difference nowadays. Some people have issues with tearing or wrong-monitor with either of them.

    Honestly, Wayland vs. X (and Flatpak) fit this perfectly: Sandboxing Cycle

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  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago

    By real user, do you mean a nontechnical user? If that's the case, the display server isn't a choice to be made by such user, but by the distro maintainers. Most people won't notice the difference, because it's mostly stuff that happens under the hood.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago

    one thing i noticed in trying both is x11 using more cpu in the same scenario (playing a youtube video, same resolution) and even the DP adapter i am using getting warmer when on x11 compared to wayland. in this scenario the difference wasn't much despite being roughly double (~2.5W compared to ~4.5W in x11). idk how that scales in other scenarios.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago

    X11 has many features and some it will never have. Wayland has less features and it has compatibility issues for the ones it has. But if you need 4K or touchscreen then Wayland is the way to go. Default choice should probably be Wayland unless it doesn't support that one thing you care about.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago

    One thing that's annoying in Wayland is new window placement where app can't control it at all*. Wayland would place it on a screen it wants. This gets hugely annoying when you have more than one monitor and/or virtual desktops and you'd want to restore billion of browser windows, for example.

    • A solution is being worked on, luckily
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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago

    If you use a feature complete Wayland compositor and compare it to equivalents (RIP velox), then Wayland basically offers more consistent pen and multitouch support and stuff, while being faster.

    There's no 2D acceleration in Wayland and that's by design, it's made for new GPUs that don't have 2D anyway anymore. Programs either draw pixels or start up 3D.

    XLibre is trying the opposite and is actually merging various 2D drivers for old and niche hardware, like ct65550 as found in the Toshiba Libretto 50ct among others. Most of these originate from distribution forks (NetBSD in this case). T2 Linux also maintains a patch to bring back lots of more ancient 2D drivers that were removed in 2012.

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (17 children)
    • for most people, use whatever your distro ships with and installs for you
    • choosing desktop environments still starts heated discussions – high end, it’s a choice between Gnome and KDE – mid-tier has Xfce, LXQt, Mate, Cinnamon, and more – limited hardware go for IceWM, JWM, FLWM, or similar – want to get your hands dirty? go for a tiling window manager
    • X11 is (effectively) abandonware at this point – it’s still getting security patches, but the devs left and started Wayland 17-ish years ago
    • XLibre is more political than technical – and I’ll leave it at that
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  • [–] [S] 4 points 4 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    If we ignore the deeply disturbing political views of the Creator the entire project is meant to be a statement. There's a conspiracy theory that there was a grand plot to kill x11 by red hat and xlibre is built upon the idea that red hat was holding it back. This completely ignores the real issues that the codebase was pure spaghetti.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    I heard that XLibre developers are working on cleaning the codebase. And I strongly believe we still need X11 at least until Wayland is polished enough, which still seems untrue even in 2026. The concerns about Red Hat are not conspiracy, a commercial corporation controlling important parts of Linux ecosystem is a serious threat, so having an alternative is never bad. Linux won't have a future if everyone just uses Red Hat approved solutions.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago

    Two things, one as previously mentioned the codebase is a mess and even the best developers working on x11 tend to introduce regressions (the xlibre dev isn't so this is amplified). Second it absolutely is a conspiracy because red hat did everything in the power to save x11 until eventually they just kept using it (tbh it needed to be replaced two decades ago). As for your last point linux won't have a future if its aggressively held back by an army of enthusiasts who demand things never change and fragmented until software support is non-existent.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/pull/56

    Here is the x11libre dev not understanding what the ^ operand does in C. Would you trust running this person's code as a display server?

    Sure. No one expects anyone to know everything from the start, and people improve with time. But this was metux's understanding of C when he forked off xorg thinking he could do better than freedesktop.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    You know that "until Wayland is polished enough" is at least a year ago for the overwhelming majority of people, right?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    A year ago I got a new PC, installed Ubuntu 24.04 which defaults to Wayland, and installed discord. Push to talk wouldn't work unless discord had mouse focus. I spent a few hours researching and trying different things before switching to X11 where it just immediately works.

    Tell me more about how polished Wayland is.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Fam, if I may, I'll be a bit abrasive and blunt for the sake of brevity. So, without further ado.

    Ubuntu 24.04

    (I'll assume this is on GNOME.) First of, in terms of Wayland development, that build is from the Bronze Age. The associated issue tracker has been closed since last year, even if you don't like the solution GNOME has come up with. Which, gets us to the second point; please don't blame the Wayland ecosystem as a whole whenever you find a fault within a Wayland compositor. If, instead, you would have been on KDE Plasma back then, you'd have found that PTT was supported. Even if it was basically a hack for the sake of UX. Thankfully, KDE Plasma has recently merged a proper implementation that's slated for its 6.7 release.

    I'll grant you that the Wayland ecosystem hasn't fully matured yet. But it's undeniable that it already provides a better experience than its predecessor for the vast majority of users.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago*

    Fair points all around. I wasn't thinking about version locks for the LTS releases when I posted, and it looks like I wouldn't have had an issue on GNOME 48.

    I think the maturity of the ecosystem has a larger impact on user experience than you're giving it credit for. I understand wayland and the rest of the desktop ecosystem will someday (maybe today for those living on the bleeding edge) provide meaningful benefits over X11 without drawbacks. I'll welcome it when it does, but in the meantime I don't want to deal with troubleshooting my discord keybinds, or figuring out why Spotify has a weird window border. I want my desktop environment to Just Work™. It's immaterial if the fault lies with wayland, GNOME, or Canonical for shipping wayland as a default while GNOME support still needed improvements. The end result is that as a user the only way to easily fix my problem is to use an X11 session instead of wayland, which makes wayland look like the problem.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    That is a feature. Allowing arbitrary programs to read any key press is how you get keyloggers.

    Wayland has a protocol to request reading keys out of focus (which will ask the user for permission, as opposed to just read it like on xorg).

    If the program was running in xwayland (which it probably was) of course it won't use that protocol, and will just try to read it X11 style.

    In some DEs (KDE) you can select if X11 apps are allowed to read keys.

    "I switched to X11 and it immediately works". I'll give you another tip: if you run chmod 777 -R / the file manager stops pestering about permissions and it immediately works.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yes, you clearly understand the problem, thank you. If there's a problem with filesystem permissions you can use tools like chmod, chown, and setfacl to fix them in a variety of ways.

    How do you fix a wayland session if your app doesn't properly support GlobalShortcuts? Where's the chmod 777 equivalent that lets the user say "I know this means this can spy on everything I do but I'd prefer this work today instead of waiting on a bug fix." Without something like this, the entire desktop ecosystem needs to mature before you can call Wayland "polished."

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    If it's a Wayland application it will support global shortcuts.

    For X11 apps. If you are on KDE there's this menu:

    Other DEs have different ways to deal with this.

    And if you are on Gnome, change DE. Gnome will always follow its own philosophy, because apparently it doesn't align with yours, you should use something else.

    Btw, I gave the same answer in the previous comment.

    Also, on the "how can you consider this polished"... Wayland supports global shortcuts, this is a fact. What it doesn't support is "global shortcuts for apps that use a protocol that is not Wayland". I think I made my point

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Mainly their readme being fully magat-pilled, talking about DEI and whatnot. They also waste time on things like renaming functions to own the libs. It's not a project that i put any trust into and i'd rather use plain X11 if i had to go back.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    I'm a bit surprised you didn't find much searching the web, because this is one of the most hot topics in Linux and everyone has an opinion and discussions are endless.

    I use Wayland for years by now and it improved vastly during that time. One of the advantages over X11 I appreciate is the better handling of multiple monitors, with different resolution, refreshrate and VRR in effect. This was simply not possible in X11 in this form. I like its more secure by design, in relation to keyboard input. X11 can read all keyboard input by any application at any time. Wayland works different here, but for the time being I enabled X11 compatibility for this in KDE, until a all applications support Wayland fully.

    Think twice before abandoning X11. Wayland breaks everything! is more of an anti Wayland posting, but its good to have a view from all angles. So I post it here.

    Have in mind that Wayland improved in recent years drastically. Searching the web is either full of Ai nonsense or old content about the old state of Wayland. Also it depends which desktop environment you are using, because some are better at Wayland than others; notably KDE is on the front regarding Wayland. So even if some Wayland features are already developed, does not mean that all desktop environments supports them already.

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  • [–] 24 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I’m a bit surprised you didn’t find much searching the web, because this is one of the most hot topics in Linux and everyone has an opinion and discussions are endless.

    it's 2026. OP probably only found useless AI slop articles after a couple searches before getting discouraged and asking here

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago

    I realized this later in my reply too and answered that to myself. Should have read it in full before pressing the reply button, as my thoughts changed a bit during a research phase. I realized its Ai bullshit all over the place when doing research to give links.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    Jesus, there's so much FUD in that gist. A lot of information out of date and emotional tone to the brim. Makes you wonder who's putting that much time and effort to support an outdated system like x11 and what they gain from that.

    The reality is that the main desktop managers, and by extension the most popular distros are abandoning x11, so that's just a silly hill to die on.

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  • [+] -20 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    Think twice before abandoning X11. Wayland breaks everything! is more of an anti Wayland posting, but its good to have a view from all angles. So I post it here.

    I like how you slightly poison the well there ("more of an anti Wayland posting) rather than pointing out that Wayland has very real problems even after >10 years of development.

    👀 1
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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    You accuse me of poison? What nonsense is this? The author is anti Wayland and the entire post is about reasoning why you should not use Wayland. This is anti Wayland, not my opinion, no poisoning, nothing. I don't agree with that person but still included it here, so we can see others perspectives too. I did not include any opinion or judge of me about that article, so nobody is poisoned by my opinion before reading it.

    rather than pointing out that Wayland has very real problems even after >10 years of development.

    Why don't you do that? As you clearly know more than me.

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  • [+] -7 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    The author is anti Wayland

    The authors' point of view does not matter. You've poisoned the well by presenting the data collected as potentially "tainted" by a bias that, even if true, does not change the data presented.

    So yes - clearly and very obviously poisoning the well. Textbook really.

    Why don't you do that?

    The link you provided actually did that. But they are "anti-wayland"...

    Edit: and I'll push back hard on the "anti-wayland" language as well. This is propaganda-style speech. People can "not like things" and disagree. But labeling somebody "anti-x" diminishes their opinions and ideas.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    Wayland breaks everything is right in the title. Did you even look into the link before you accuse ME of propaganda? I did not poison the well and left my opinion out. The article IS anti Wayland, and that is not my opinion and does not reflect my opinion. You should stop right there.

    Edit:

    you: rather than pointing out that Wayland has very real problems even after >10 years of development.

    me: Why don’t you do that?

    you: The link you provided actually did that. But they are “anti-wayland”…

    But you expect ME to do it, when I ask you to do the same?

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Wayland breaks everything is right in the title. Did you even look into the link before you accuse ME of propaganda? I did not poison the well and left my opinion out. The article IS anti Wayland, and that is not my opinion and does not reflect my opinion. You should stop right there.

    You're just anti-X11.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    You just attack me personally the whole time with wrong accusations, instead bringing arguments for or against Wayland and X11.

    Edit: You call me doing propaganda, you call me poisoning the opinions of others, you call me anti X11. Just because I call the article Anti Wayland. That's it, that is your basis. Even though I provided that link to have a different view in the mix our discussions too. I ask you, would you not consider the article I linked being Anti Wayland? Strange because it ONLY speaks about its problems (some not even true anymore), but not about its strengths. Also you call me anti-X11 (to me personally), but you say its propaganda speech if I say Anti Wayland (about the article).

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    You just attack me personally the whole time with wrong accusations, instead bringing arguments for or against Wayland and X11.

    I very clearly attacked your argument (not you) as "Poisoning the Well". Sounds like you're not familiar with logical fallacies, I highly recommend reading up on them.

    you call me anti X11

    Yes - that was me doing to you what you did to the author to show by example. You took that as an insult which is why I say calling the author of that article "anti-wayland" is well-poisoning. You've set the tone that the article is not to be taken seriously because of a perceived bias on the part of the author. You "besmirched" their reputation to, by association, attack the argument. This is practically the definition of Poisoning the Well.

    Just because I call the article Anti Wayland. That’s it, that is your basis.

    Yes - that was the fallacy. The "well-poisoning" if you will. If you simply said "Here is an article that points out some of the problems with Wayland" or something to that effect I wouldn't have taken any issue.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    As an average user, I notice input issues, multi-monitor issues and incorrect animations in Wayland. X11 just works fine. But somehow pointing out problems with Wayland always gets you downvoted because it's "newer and more secure".

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Multi-monitor issues surprises me, considering multi-monitor support is kind of a sellingpoint for wayland. I don't think animations being incorrect has anything to do with wayland itself though, it's up to the individual compositors to handle that.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Specifically, it's windows opening in the wrong screen. In some full-screen Wine games it means games crash when you move them.

    And for animations, if I use touchpad 3-finger touch to switch desktops, the animation is reversed.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    But somehow pointing out problems with Wayland always gets you downvoted because it’s “newer and more secure”.

    That's not the reason why he got downvotes. In fact, he didn't even mention what problems Wayland has. Contrary to him, I even posted a huge link with massive listings why Wayland sucks. I also pointed out 2 problems in my comment he is replying to.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    I don't think for tue average user it really matters much. If you've got multiple screens of different sizes or refresh rates, Wayland is the way to go. If you've got multiple identical screens that you want to treat as a single big screen, X11 is perfect for that.

    I recently switched and I'm happy with how it runs. Even on Nvidia.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Is it even a debate at this point? x11 is on it's way out and wayland transition is pretty much complete within the gnu/linux ecosystem. Vast majority of distros and desktop environments ship with wayland as the default and keep developing with wayland in mind, with holdouts like debian and mint that still use x11, I think. X11 is basically dinosaur software for legacy. Vast majority of end users will just take what is the default and that is Wayland and they don't even notice.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    On my 2014 PC I'm using Fedora 44 with KDE, which defaults to Wayland: not problems whatsoever, but some applications say "Wayland support is experimental, beware".

    I switched to X11 after a suggestion to debug some issues with a game. The issues was not fixed, all the other applications I've tried are still working flawlessly. PLUS the KDE night light feature is working (was not in Wayland). So I stayed with X11.

    On my wife MacBook (2015) I installed Kinoite, defaults to Wayland. Everything works, but Rustdesk renders VERY small. I have not tried X11 on that, and will not try it.

    Try both with all your applications and setups and choose the smoother experience. Make security a secondary priority: if it was the first you have less attack surface sticking to terminal only.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Wait, you installed Linux on a MacBook?

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    As someone who has used X11 and Wayland, it doesn't matter for the typical user. If you, like me, have a penchant for some smaller desktop environments like XFCE or window managers, you will be stuck with X11, but many are already working on porting to Wayland.

    Couple edge cases for gaming, namely screen tearing on some X11 configurations and certain Nvidia hardware running into issues on Wayland. For multi-monitor or high DPI users, Wayland handles per-monitor DPI and fractional scaling far better than X11. Maybe a couple more edge use cases for remoting into the desktop, but Wayland support is also improving quickly on that end. In any case, Wayland is by design more secure than X11.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I thought I’d never have to care about X11 or Wayland if I was a typical user. I thought it was just a debate for really passionate Linux user.

    I turned out to be false since the reason I had bad playback on my HTPC, was the fact that Wayland was preventing the refresh rate of my TV to be adjusted to the content.

    Switching to a distro using X11 solved the issue and apparently Wayland doesn’t plan on changing anything about this issue.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    Wayland doesn’t plan on changing anything about this issue.

    This seems to be a common pattern with the Wayland team. They seem very focused on some technical ideology for how "things should work" to the point of ignoring or dismissing real-world issues.

    Perhaps in another 20 years they'll get around to addressing it.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Honestly, on a running system with average hardware, the average user won't notice any difference. Depending on your de/wm of choice on x11, you may have to swap to something similar but different, but there it. Depending on what you used, something will require different solutions, like screenshots, but 90+% of stuff, there is no difference.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago*

    I'd like to chime in on the "average hardware" claim.

    The idea that Wayland is more demanding to run than X11 is a misconception.

    Mutter (Gnome's compositor) and kwin (KDE's compositor) are more demanding than xorg plus a simple window manager. Usually that's what people used to compare when they said that Wayland is demanding, and now they just keep repeating it.

    In actuality, the Wayland protocol is more efficient by nature. So a light Wayland compositor (e.g. labwc) will run better on limited hardware, than a light X11 window manager.

    Tho, Wayland requires proper EGL support, which you might not have on some old exotic hardware (e.g. a Tegra 2/3/4 tablet).

    The example I usually make is:

    • Dig up an old intel atom netbook (it's old and
    • Try using regular lxqt on x11
    • Now try lxqt on labwc
    • See which one you'd rather use
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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago*

    I mean the ELI5 for the uninitiated is that X11 is older, and Wayland was made as the successor to X11. It aims to address issues that a lot of people had with X11. X11 is not in active development whereas Wayland is, and for support for modern tech, it'll be added to Wayland but not X11. These days I'd advise to go with Wayland unless you either have hardware that doesn't place nicely with it or you have a specific use-case for X11, i.e. Wayland unless you have a reason not to. Although most "beginner" distros choose for you without prompting you to pick, in which case go with the default (it's probably Wayland anyway).

    If you mean to explain the debate, basically some people have particular things they want to do, or they want to do something a certain way, and it's not supported by Wayland, usually by design due to things like security concerns or philosophical differences with X11. X11 will continue to work for a long time but it's not getting new features, so if these issues are a concern with you, you could stick to X11 for the foreseeable future.

    The average user is not supposed to notice a difference (apart from maybe QoL differences like performance, screen tearing, etc)—that's the goal of both projects. It should just display your desktop.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    It depends heavily on your hardware and workflow.

    Wayland can be a great experience and I personally enjoy how smooth it feels, but I acknowledge that many people run into some problems.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Wayland is (part of) the modern solution to the problem that was previously tackled by X11. As such, it comes with improved security (read: keyloggers no longer have a field day) and features (read: HDR, VRR and no screen tearing) that one might expect in 2026. Furthermore, it breaks up the monolith of X11 and thus adheres better to the Unix Philosophy^[That is; Do one thing and do it well.] (if that happens to be something you care about). Finally, Wayland has basically come (as part of the plan) to replace X11. So, it will continue to improve as a platform while X11 will remain stagnant.

    In the current landscape in which Wayland has (finally) fulfilled (most of) its promises, X11's lifeline are the edge cases in which (for a myriad of different reasons) the Wayland ecosystem hasn't reached full feature-parity yet. And Wayland's trajectory would suggest that it's only a matter of time until those have been ironed out as well.

    TL;DR: Use Wayland. Most of the ecosystem has already adopted it and what remains is actively in the process of doing so.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    There are still things that work on X11 that don't work on Wayland but Wayland has more security, more features and is actually being developed now.

    Pick your distros default, if something graphical doesn't work switching might do the trick.

    Common issues with wayland are mostly related to screen sharing or lower level thingies like programmatically pressing the mouse.

    Common issues with X11 is VRR, HDR, fractional scaling and multi monitor configuration.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    X11 is stable and maintained but not getting new features. It will generally work well for most people but over time it will and is drifting to obsolesence.

    Wayland has some flaws but is not basically stable and feature rich enough for most people to use. It is not a complete drop in for X11 and won't necessairly ever will be but for the vast majorory of desktop users it is.

    The problem with Wayland is that there are still issues for people with graphics drivers. Nvidia in particular has had serious issues with it although they are improving.

    I personally still use X11 with my KDE set up because i still have problems woth Wayland. Thwyre not as bad as they were but its still not quite stable above for me.

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    X11 is dead don't bother with it. The same people who wrote X11 are working on Wayland because X11 became to here maintain.

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  • [+] -8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    X11 is still being actively maintained. It isn't an install risk or anything like that. It isn't going to add any shiny new features, but not everyone needs shiny new features. (That being said, if Wayland works for you, go ahead and use it. Just don't spread FUD, please.)

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    I personally haven't really seen much difference between the two except Wayland eating more CPU and being rather tedious for hybrid (Ryzen/Nvidia) setups (still haven't resolved it crashing when I change TTY). I'd personally say stick to whatever default your desktop environment runs on..XWayland helps with the whole compatibility concerns at least.

    Just my experience though, yours could be different depending on your machine and general setup

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

    I still struggle with running GUI programs as root, and cutting & pasting between windows in Wayland. Those are the big things holding me back from switching completely.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    So you literally can not copy+paste something between different apps?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I think they're saying that it happens when you run one app as root, then you can't copy-paste to other apps. It's not a problem when running graphical apps as your normal user account.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I actually meant those as two separate issues. I guess I needed a comma.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    I can't copy & paste between the password manager and other apps, so I have to type out all these long, randomly-generated passwords, and often there's not an option to see what characters I'm typing, so I don't know I made a typo until the very end.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    Multiple screens and clipboard changes. Wayland has a lot more security built in. Keeps applications from seeing what other applications are doing.

    Scaling issues, again multi monitor.

    The ones that affect me: Remmina RDP sessions using muliple monitors. I have to launch it with

    GDK_BACKEND=x11 remmina

    Libreoffice displays terrible on any screen that is a different resolution than the one orginally launched.

    It too can be forced to use x11 as a backend.

    And so through the xwayland tools it really has been fairly painless even with these issues.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Every time I setup my desktop up for Wayland I always go back to X11, I find Wayland sluggish compared to X11 and don’t have the time nor energy to troubleshoot applications that had no issues working on X11.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I did not have any problems with Wayland for 6 months on Arch (personal PC for hobby projects and gaming). I also don't want to troubleshoot, it just works. Most applications are installed via flatpak.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    also don't want to troubleshoot, it just works. Most applications are installed via flatpak.

    I’m not surprised Flatpaks work with Wayland without issue, however Flatpaks containerize the application which is something I don’t want to do for everything I download as it adds extra overhead for something that could’ve just been built and installed as a native package (.deb, .rpm).

    To each their own though.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Waylad is technically a better idea, the progression of X11, more secure and should be faster and smoother when it's ready...

    But I run into so many incompatabilities still and often janky support via xWayland that I really don't think Wayland is ready to be the default just yet.

    It will be, I'm sure, but for now I spend more time fighting it than I do using it. A bit of snazz in KDE and Waydroid seem to be the only things that actually need it, for me, and so many legacy things just nope right out and crash without going back to x by force.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    You can run either. The truth is depending on what you want to do, what hardware you running, and software versions you have available, your experience will be very different.

    Personally I run X11 because I'm used to it. It's extremely stable and the failure points are well known.

    The waylandism design really bothers me, and so does the attitude of waylandists. Throwing stuff that works away for no reason, chasing some sort of Android trash ecosystem dream that's never going to happen.

    Whatever man, you're taking xgamma away from me over my dead body. cocks shotgun. Come and get it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (1 child)

    The difference is that some things work on one and some things don’t work on the other.

    For example: the literal whole way you’ve ever been able to use a computer will only work on x11. That’s because x11 comes directly from the lineage of human computer interface that you’re used to. Everything just works. Unless…

    Counter example: new stuff is phasing out (or has already phased out) x11 support! Kde and gnome for example, are Wayland only in the most recent builds. That doesn’t mean your rich copying and accessibility tools still work. They just didn’t implement those parts.

    If you believe that open source is an impenetrable monolith that cannot be changed then you’d better get on the Wayland ship now and figure out how to deal with its shortcomings before you’re left behind.

    If you believe that open source projects can respond to their users and improve, stick with x11. It works and someone will support it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    My Xpenguin won't work in Wayland 😢

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  • [+] -15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    I think x11 is for older computers , or the ones that are not that powerful , while wayland is for capable computers . I am not sure though so someone please confirm! :)

    Edit: So many downvots :)

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