Mastodon post with no text and an image showing a Monobank card strapped to the back of a Pinephone with some rubber bands. The text within the image reads "Contactless payments on PinePhone (working Google Pay/Apple Pay alternative)".

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[–] 434 points 5 months ago* (30 children)

I'll do one better:

Reshaped payment card's NFC antenna

My payment card was just a bit too wide to fit in my cellphone's cover. The phone's own NFC antenna is at the top - and I use it all the time - so the card had to be at the bottom of the cover to avoid triggering the phone all the time, in portrait orientation so-to-speak.

So I dissolved the card in acetone to extract the NFC chip and its antenna, then carefully reshaped one end of the antenna so it's a bit less wide (and since I couldn't modify the length of the wire or the number of turns in any way to avoid de-tuning the antenna too much, I sort of accordioned one side of the rectangle to accommodate the extra length of wire).

Then I set the new shape of the antenna permanently by carefully applying a piece of packing tape over it, flipped it over, taped over the other side to seal everything, then carefully cut around the new, ultra-thin, stubbier contactless payment "card".

Now it fits really smartly in my cellphone cover!

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  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    Have you ever run into difficulty with needing to authenticate with chip+PIN? Like while traveling?

    That would be my big concern with this; it would make it very difficult to pass a PIN check, to say the least!

    Super cool idea. I might just try it myself and see if I run into issues.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    What I modified was in fact a contactless payment token. It had the form factor of a payment card, but it only does NFC.

    I have another card for chip+pin.But I almost never use it where I live, because all limits were lifted on contactless payments a few years ago. If I try to pay something really expensive contactless, it will ask me for the pin - which is specific to the payment token.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    Do you mind if I ask what bank issued those? Why? Does the chip+pin also tap or are they features on totally separate cards?

    I've never heard of a separate tap to pay token (outside of perhaps transit passes or like, arcade cards), and never a card based tap transaction that asks for a pin.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago*

    Payment tokens are very common. Usually they're sold as keychains, wristbands or rings, and they're provisioned to work with the myriad of payment processors out there - which aren't banks.

    in my case, it's a token from iCard. The way it works is, it's connected to a regular bank account number with an IBAN number (supplied by iCard when you activate the token), and you transfer money to it that you can then spend with the contactless token. The nice thing is, if you lose it, you can't lose anymore money than you put on it.

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  • [+] 11 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Kudos for the effort. With that said, this would definitely raise some eyebrows if you have to return the card when getting a new one.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    The bank just mails the new card to me. I still have old debit cards.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Knowing the reliability of our postal services, I would very much prefer to receive it in person. Of course there are security measures (activating it only when you get it and so on), but still.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Our bank will just print a new one on the spot for you if you go to their office. As long as you're ok with your name and card number not being embossed. They have to order away the embossed ones – but you can still pick them up in person.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Well, what if you need an actual card for identification in the bank or something similar? Do you just show them the dissolved one?

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  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Don't know about OP but gov ID works for that purpose. I'm more worried about when they go to a store that doesn't accept tap.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    I was thinking about this, and there are two easy workarounds, I think:

    1. If possible, get a second active card in the same name. Ideally, a full-identical cloned card. Not sure if this would be allowed, but if not...
    2. Add another authorized user to your account and never give them the card, then just dissolve that card for tap payments.

    But, in either case, I do think you might run into a different issue: automated fraud detection sometimes requires me to chip+PIN, even for transcribed below the tap limit. This has happened to me when traveling. I don't think there would be any way around that, and if you then fail to authenticate with chip+PIN, it's reasonable to think that the bank would lock your card for contactless payments until you successfully authenticate the card again with chip+PIN. (To be clear: this is only speculation; not sure if that would be an issue in practice.)

    So, I suspect that whether this would work or not might depend on your institution (or maybe jurisdiction?)

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    [–] 55 points 5 months ago*

    Take that Android! This works even with the phone powered off! It works even without the phone at all!

    Wait...

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  • [–] 34 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    Ironic it's a monobank card, it's mobile only and you have to use a locked unrooted googled phone (or an iPhone) because big brother said so.

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  • [–] 31 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    Also this https://telegraf.ua/ukr/ukrayina/5935111-gorokhovskogo-chekae-pokarannya-yuristi-rozpovili-chim-dlya-monobank-zakinchitsya-skandal-z-oprilyudnennyam-foto-klientki

    TLDR: some woman did a facial recognition log in method, the bank said that the photos are not stored and deleted instantly, but because there was a Slovenian flag (looked like russian in the photo)in the background, she got her bank account blocked and the CEO posted the verification image online

    Edit: wrong link

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    makes you wonder what the CEOs of all those age verification companies are doing with all the photos

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Hope that doesn't get too popular, I don't want to have to carry a second phone just to make payments when I can use a much smaller card instead.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    In other news, cash is foldable.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Good luck folding Β£100 without having a pretty big bulge in your phone case.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I don't have british pounds at hand so can't test... Why are you putting valuable stuff next to more valuable stuff, anyway? Like to have everything stolen in one go?

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    I opened an account with starling partly because they have a real webapp, but you have to fucking log in with your phone, which is half the reason I want a webapp: because fetching your phone when you're already at your computer is just a ballache

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  • [+] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Nope. The website says "get app" like 4 times. There's a webapp but it's for business stats only (like if you own a cafe). They are just trying to "appeal to the younger generation", and one part of that is the app that spams emojis everywhere. Another part of that is furry stickers ("qr cat") believe it or not; in physical, Telegram and Viber because everything in this damn country is held together by Telegram and Viber.

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  • [–] 31 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    Now how about contactless payments without visa or MasterCard.

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  • [–] 28 points 5 months ago* (5 children)

    It would have been nice if crypto didn’t turn into a network of pyramid schemes.

    Like, I am sympathetic to the idea. I mined a Bitcoin a long time ago (and lost it in intervening years). But holy moly, did it erupt into a tire fire.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Even without the greater fool scam, it's basic physics that a some dedicated servers will be more efficient than having every computer in a distributed network process every transaction.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    And authoritarianism can be more efficient than democracy. Doesn't mean I want authoritarism though

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    It’s not democracy though.

    Whatever the ideals of cypto are, however user friendly could be made, in reality, it’s just fundamentally too easy to be abused.

    As-is, it’s one of those β€œit would work fine if everyone learned it in detail, and grifters would go away” ideas, and that’s not going to happen.

    Democracy is fragile and exploitable too, but it has a track record of working across general populations for reasonable lengths of time.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    What kind of abuse are you talking about? I doubt you're talking about a 51% attack, which is incredibly hard. I'm guessing you are talking about social engineering, like where some scammer gets a poor soul to leak their bitcoin wallet or something like that.

    In these cases, yes a centralized payment system can be useful, because the authority in charge can just reverse transactions that are deemed fraudulent or the result of a scam. But that same authority can do things like ban all payments to Steam for porn games (like the recent Visa Mastercard drama). That same authority can say "GrapheneOS and Pinephone users aren't allowed to make NFC payments".

    In cases like these it would be nice for there to be an alternative to centralized systems, at least for those technologically literate enough to use these alternative systems.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago*

    GNU+Linux is currently being used to kill civilians in several wars, but we don't feel the need to point that out every time somebody says they use Arch btw.

    Good tech can be used by bad people without everybody having to distance themselves from the tech itself.

    That's not to say that BTC is good tech, but it's a decent proof of concept to free digital transactions from monopolists and tyrants.

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  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Non American credit cards when

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I'm European, I technically have a MC credit card which I'll use on the rare occasions I need a credit card, but the vast majority of the time it's debit card or direct transfers (what they're now calling wero).

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  • [–] 55 points 5 months ago* (14 children)
  • [–] [S] 34 points 5 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 60 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    Screen side with call buttons

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    Yeah just use glue, smh my head.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    You seem to have been sniffing some to be smacking your head's head.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (4 children)

    I feel like it was a joke directed at people using ATM machines and staring at LCD displays

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah I clearly overestimated people's familiarity with this particular meme.

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  • [–] 22 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    Maybe a solution similar to this could work: https://github.com/nfcgate/nfcgate/blob/v2/doc/mode/Relay.md

    Have the card at home sitting on a reader connected to your homelab, add NFC module to PinePhone and simply relay the traffic over network.

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  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Works without connection tooπŸ”₯

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  • [–] 20 points 5 months ago

    Nice meme, but for us out there with at least a fully virtual card (some companies provide such benefits), we need a real MyAss-Pay alternative

    I recently found Walt, but it's a work in progress for now. The app is avalaible though

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  • [–] 55 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    Or you can just keep your card in your wallet, like you have done for decades

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (5 children)

    Didn't have to carry a phone for decades.

    Now I don't have to carry a wallet and multiple cards πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Gotta carry ID, what's one more card?

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  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    We can go even further and create some sort of physical tokens that we can give to each other. These token would be secure, completely private, waterproof and even work offline. Maybe we could even put some pictures on them and make them vision-impaired accessible - the possibilities are endless!

    People forget that cash is a technology - a pretty good one too.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Banks are closing ATMs left and right. It is getting increasingly harder to withdraw paper money and it sucks.

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  • [–] 25 points 5 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  • [+] -14 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    See my other comment on this post

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    This made me laugh more than I would've thought. Excellent meme. 10/10

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Nobody here mention security?

    Like with passkeys (getting better though) and encrypted RCS messages, this is a proprietary standard that still sadly offers way more security.

    It is token based afaik and the secret is never shared or even readable by an attacker. This card can be stolen with a single swipe, all that is protecting you is the banking system being overly cautious and expecting their systems to fail, so you need to enter a pin code on higher transactions or your card is simply locked.

    Paying with VISA card online is insane from a security perspective, made slightly less bad by requiring authentication with a proprietary TAN app.

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