submitted 5 months ago by to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world
πŸ‘ 1
 

[Jesus sits on a rock, speaking]
A new commandβ€―I give you:
Love one another

[an angry character talks back to Jesus]
What if they're something bad like gay, trans, brown, or communist though?

[Jesus is facepalming on his rock]
I don't want to be a messiah anymore

https://thebad.website/comic/gospel_of_love

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[–] 122 points 5 months ago (23 children)

Just a note, Jesus wasn't actually purple even though he is depicted here as such.

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  • [–] 98 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    actually, many scholars today believe jesus most likely was purple, as a result of the water in his body being transmuted into wine. this is why in modern catholic tradition, wine is used to represent the blood of christ.

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  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago* (12 children)

    Guy was a walking DUI, with a BAC of 100%.

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  • [–] 20 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    this is why the bible contains no mention of jesus driving a car or reciting the alphabet backwards

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    The real reason he was crucified. You need to go to the apocrypha of Thomas to find out about how many times he ran over Lazarus with that mule before he skipped town for three days.

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  • [–] [S] 23 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Of course, canon Jesus reply would be "but we're brown ourselves though?"

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I honestly don't know what colour of skin people of the levant would have at that time.

    The canon version is people complaining about the Samaritans.

    Maybe we are due an updated parable: The Good Transwoman

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    I honestly don’t know what colour of skin people of the levant would have at that time.

    A very mixed bag, given that it was a major crossroads of the ancient world.

    Maybe we are due an updated parable: The Good Transwoman

    And when I was pregnant, you aborted my fetus

    And when I was undocumented, you paid me fairly for my labor and didn't try to gouge me on rent

    And when I was addicted, you gave me methadone and a place to sober up.

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  • [–] 39 points 5 months ago (32 children)

    It's amazing that a sect leader that promoted peace and frugality unknowingly created one of the most violent and greedy religions.

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  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Yes it certainly morphs after Constantine makes it the state religion, rather than a cult.

    I am reading a book on the Baltic Crusades and it was talking about the diametrically opposed ideas of state violence and a pacifist religion. Essentially, pacifism doesn't work as a state policy. The Christian church struggled to decide what violence the state should be able to commit.

    Augustine, thought war could be justified in certain circumstances, one of which was if the following peace created more good than the evil if the war wasn't fought.

    Nowadays, I don't think people even know that Christianity was/is a pacifist movement.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago

    I mean, it should be obvious to Christians today that Jesus repeatedly and consistently made a clear distinction between the "kingdom of heaven" and secular nations. Separation of church and state was absolutely one of the premises the early church worked off of as a teaching of Jesus himself. The idea of a "Christian Nation" is indeed antithetical to the very foundations of Christianity. The early history of Christianity is pretty lost on people today and people are quite unaware of just how drastic the changes in Christianity were in the early 300s, and how gigantic of a deal it was for the Roman state to adopt Christianity at the time.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Augustine, thought war could be justified in certain circumstances, one of which was if the following peace created more good than the evil if the war wasn’t fought.

    And don't forget Aquinas, who literally sandwiched his one chapter on war between the chapters detailing mercy. If I remember the professors correctly, that was no mistake, and was very, very thematically intentional. Christians are downright fucked in the head as they try to cognitive dissonance their way into reconciling our species' lust for war with high minded ideals of love and kindness.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (28 children)

    Jesus Christ as depicted in the Bible, with near 100% certainty never existed. He was no more real than Harry Potter.
    The absolute lack of evidence of existence for a person claimed to be the most significant person that ever lived, and who performed numerous miracles, means that the only reasonable conclusion is that he never actually existed.

    It would be like if we had zero evidence for the existence of Cleopatra, outside some scriptures written by a superstitious sect, where the earliest were written 2 generations after her death, by anonymous authors, and based only on hear say, and written in a place that it would take weeks to travel to or even months. With zero contemporary or first hand evidence.

    And then imagine Cleopatra performed miracles regularly too.
    AND Cleopatra lived 1 generation before Jesus, and 3 generations before the first "books" of the new testament were written.

    But in difference to Jesus, there are loads of historical evidence that Cleopatra lived. When she lived, where she lived, and who she was. But not only her, also her family, like father and brother are well documented, and several events Cleopatra was part of are also very well documented.

    Add to that that the search for evidence for the existence of Jesus is probably the by far biggest historical and archeological search in history. Spanning almost 2000 years, with massive financing from wealthy Churches especially the Catholic and Mormons have spend insane amounts of money searching for evidence, but not only that, also traditional historical institutions have participated, because they too, despite the absolute lack of reason for it, thought that there ought to be evidence for the existence of Jesus.
    This search we know for sure started already in year 200!! And it was pretty intense for more than 1500 years!!! And the search often included scholars, because they too were deluded.

    And their combined efforts have turned up nothing but fakes created after the fact. Zero actual historical evidence.
    The few pieces (about 3) some claim are evidence are heavily refuted as obvious fakes too.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I mean, the idea that a guy made a weird sect, telling people to throw away all of their money (to who?) and performing tricks to pass them as miracles isn't so absurd. There's been a lot of scammers throughput history, he could have simply been one that happened to have a long lasting effect.

    It's far from being the most significant person or whatever, more of a butterfly effect of some dude that wanted to have his own cult.

    Isn't that him the romans were describing it, as a cult gathering people fast? That's probably all it was.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I mean, the idea that a guy made a weird sect,

    There is still no evidence of that. It's just moving the goal post, but in reality it doesn't make a difference.
    There are also communications between Christian groups where the personification of Christ is debated, to make it easier for people to understand Christianity.

    t’s far from being the most significant person or whatever,

    Again you are completely missing the point, because according to Christianity Jesus is clearly the moist significant person to ever live, and if the bible was true, that would be a fact, as his existence is claimed to be the salvation of billions of people through 2 millennia.
    So saying he is not, is actually the same as supporting my claim that he never existed.

    Isn’t that him the romans were describing it, as a cult gathering people fast?

    No, Christianity was insignificant until the Romans themselves adopted it for political reasons.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not saying that there is evidence, and I'm not sure what goal post I'm moving. My whole point was that the way Jesus is depicted by Christianity is as a weird sect leader that was promoting peace and frugality, and that it is ironic considering that the religion itself is quite the opposite.

    I wasn't debating the proof of existence of Jesus and to be honest, I don't really care if he ever existed or not (and I would argue that most people don't, because most Christians would absolutely ignore anything that would prove that he didn't exist). My point was just to insist on the fact that Christianity has been for a pretty long time a religion of violence and greed, and that it is ironic.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago

    the way Jesus is depicted by Christianity is as a weird sect leader

    That's false Jesus is depicted by christianity as the son of god, with supernatural powers that allowed him to perform miracles, including rising from the dead, and ascending to heaven after.

    that it is ironic considering that the religion itself is quite the opposite.

    On that we agree 100%. But the Bible is full of contradictions, and even the new testament has different books about Jesus that try to deliver very different messages about him, when telling the same basic story.

    Same way as it could work with Harry Potter if we didn't have copyright, and everybody could write their own story about him. And a century later a fan club makes a collection of the best 100 year old stories about Harry Potter that are decided by everyone to be canon. And they call it the Holy Bible of Harry Potter, and for 2000 years people actually believe it to be true, and that Harry Potter was a guy that really existed who could do magic.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (12 children)

    Eh, I don't think there's much merit to whether or not Jesus was a real person. The focus should be on the obviously fantastical claims because Christian apologists tend to get all caught up in the idea of Jesus being a "historical person" rather than the wild claim of Jesus being a literal god. I don't reject the validity of Christianity because I'm unsure if Jesus really did exist or not, but rather that the supernatural claims fall embarrassingly short of such tall claims.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (11 children)

    I don’t think there’s much merit to whether or not Jesus was a real person.

    Nono that's not how it works, the burden of proof is on those that claim he existed. Without such proof, there is no reason to believe he did.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    But why quibble over the murkier "did he exist" ground when you could engage on "was he a miracle working guy who came back from the dead" and make them find more evidence for that!

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (8 children)

    and make them find more evidence for that!

    What do you mean? More than zero? There is no evidence, and "more" evidence will never be found, because there is no reason to believe it ever happened. And if you mean evidence that it didn't happen, then again that's not how it works. You can't prove a negative.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (5 children)

    @Buffalox @Semjeza technically there is textual evidence of him coming back from the dead. From multiple authors even.It's readily available in every version of the Bible.(Now if that evidence is worth a rats ass is another question altogether)

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (4 children)

    technically there is textual evidence

    No those are just stories, and none of the "books" are reliable historical evidence.

    (Now if that evidence is worth a rats ass is another question altogether)

    Exactly, I already mentioned that the bible isn't a valid source. First because it is written by anonymous authors, second because it isn't contemporary, thirdly because it's based on hearsay, and finally because crucial details do not line up among them.

    The books of the Bible is exactly what could be expected to happen when you don't have copyright. Someone picks up a story, and changes it to be more to his liking.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    @Buffalox this discarding of the Bible as a source always sounds like an agenda in itself. Sure, it's mythologized, but it's a corpus of texts written by a multitude of authors corroborating at least some things between them.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I gave the reasons for why the bible is discarded as historical evidence for Jesus.
    The earliest book is written 1 generation after the fact, in an area quite some distance from where the events allegedly took place, by anonymous authors, and with no first party references, and the book contradict each other on key events.

    How is that an agenda? Using it as a source however is clearly an agenda.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    @Buffalox completely discarding multiple sources written by multiple people saying the same thing as evidence because you decide on a whim they don't count is not a reasonable position. They might not be good evidence, but they still are evidence. This always seems to be nothing but a kneejerk reaction to all those Christians claiming the Bible is god-given truth. "Oh no, let's disregard everything written in this amazingly preserved textual corpus because I want to hurt those meanies"

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    completely discarding multiple sources written by multiple people saying the same thing as evidence

    They are not saying that independently, they were all members of the same cult, and the stories are clearly inspired by the stories that precede.

    They might not be good evidence, but they still are evidence.

    When it's 5 levels removed from what's considered reliable historical evidence, no it should no longer be considered evidence.
    That's like saying that because there are many Harry Potter books, they are stronger evidence for his existence, by your standard, the existence of Harry Potter must be a definite certainty.

    β€œOh no, let’s disregard everything written in this amazingly preserved textual corpus because I want to hurt those meanies”

    Delusions based on superstition is harmful to both the individual and society as a whole, this is a solidly proven fact.
    The book should probably no be completely discarded, I can understand historians using it to understand the thinking and culture of the time.
    But to believe the supernatural things described in the Bible is an extreme lack of critical thinking.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    OHMYGOD, THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago*

    What? To give them more time to not be able to prove a negative?
    Or to give them more time than 2000 years to still not be able to prove anything?
    You are not making any sense now?!

    Or were you being sarcastic about the more time thing? Because if you were, it's very stupid to not use the /s regarding sarcasm, when we are debating stupid beliefs billions of people actually hold.

    In any case, you are not making sense now.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (10 children)

    Very few serious historians doubt the existence of Jesus the person.

    The idea that Jesus was a purely mythical figure has a fringe status in scholarly circles and has had no support in critical studies for more than a century, with most such theories going without recognition or serious engagement.[21][2][note 4]

    The theory that Jesus the person was himself a myth turns up in the 19th century, whereas skepticism and disbelief about the claims in the Bible about Jesus etc, (which are referenced in it) are older than the book itself, which iirc was begun tens of years after his death.

    There are at least fourteen independent sources for the historicity of Jesus from multiple authors within a century of the crucifixion of Jesus[22][note 5]

    Clearly you can believe whatever you want to believe of course, and I don't think for a minute wikipedia is going to convince you that Jesus was a historical person, (you don't strike me as someone who would take a detailed look into it having already decided it's proposterous), but for the record, I have to tell you that your assertion that there is no evidence is just factually incorrect.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

    WTF are you quoting??? Quoting without a source is nonsensical.

    Very few serious historians doubt the existence of Jesus the person.

    Because over centuries of Christianity dominating western teaching, historians have been indoctrinated and even paid to accept or prove if they can that Jesus Christ as a historical person, exclusively based on the stories in the Bible, that are 2 generations after the fact, and by anonymous authors and based on hearsay at best, or rather they are simply made up. The bible is in no way a trustworthy historical document.

    If you point to scholarly consensus, you also have to be able to point to evidence that scholarly consensus is based on, and the fact is you can't. This scholarly consensus is 100% based on a circle jerk, where scholars conclude according to their own beliefs in Christianity without evidence.

    Clearly you can believe whatever you want to believe

    My beliefs on the issue are based on the evidence, if you want to believe based on superstition and group pressure your beliefs are not equal to mine.
    Beliefs without evidence are generally false as in near infinitely unlikely to be true, and false beliefs that are a central point of your world view are demonstrably harmful, exactly in the way Christian beliefs can be shown to be harmful.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    WTF are you quoting??? Quoting without a source is nonsensical.

    I already said: wikipedia.

    This scholarly consensus is 100% based on a circle jerk, where scholars conclude according to their own beliefs in Christianity without evidence.

    Forgive me for trusting the scholarship of the majority of historians rather than some random on the internet who wasn't aware what the consensus of historians was that Jesus was a real person until a few hours ago, and just assumed there was no corroborating evidence because you didn't think there would be!

    Historians, as their day job, what they're best at, and expert in, is evaluating historical documents, taking into account the bias of their authors and drawing appropriate conclusions. I'm going to trust them over you ranting.

    Feel free to doubt the religious claims of the Bible, but it's silly to base your whole argument against the church on the one thing that historians, with a few exceptions, agree on.

    You're behaving like a vaccine skeptic or climate change denier. There is a field of experts. There was controversy. There was a lot of examination of the evidence and now there is a consensus. You are disagreeing with the consensus on the basis of your instincts and your preexisting beliefs.

    My beliefs on the issue are based on the evidence

    No they aren't! You had no idea there was any, you haven't even begun to look into it, you have no intention of looking into it in any serious way, and you just today claimed that there couldn't be any on the grounds that it wasn't true! It's a circular argument only supported by it's conclusion!

    Of all the things to disagree with the Bible on, you pick the physical existence of Jesus as the one you most ardently dispute? There's so much that's easy for you to argue is implausible in the Bible, but you pick the very existence of some guy going round preaching to a bunch of religious folk that they should be nice to each other?

    Why is it so hard for you to accept that Jesus might have been a real person? Do you disbelieve in Mohammed's physical existence, or the Buddha, just because you disbelieve their religious claims? It's irrational. You disbelieve me; am I therefore non-existent?

    It's so illogical, and you have your eyes so tightly shut to the possibility that something slightly less simple than "it's all complete nonsense" is true.

    Those who will not listen can never learn new things.

    Jesus was real.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    who wasn’t aware what the consensus of historians was

    I absolutely were.

    I already said: wikipedia.

    You can't just quote "wikipedia" you have to give the link to the page, so others can see the context. For all I know those quotes could be from a page about things stupid people believe.

    You’re behaving like a vaccine skeptic or climate change denier.

    No the exact opposite, because they deny the evidence, while I draw my conclusions based on it, or in this case rather the lack of it.
    Without evidence there is no reason to believe in the existence of god, and saying that a number of anonymous cultists writing stories about him is proof, is the same as saying a number of Harry Potter books is proof of the existence of Harry Potter.

    Of all the things to disagree with the Bible on, you pick the physical existence of Jesus as the one you most ardently dispute?

    No that would be the existence of god. A belief that is even more insane, because it's even more crazy to believe in a god without evidence whatsoever.
    All the arguments of the existence of god in the bible are based on ignorance, just like you show here.

    You are making a string of false assumptions here based on ignorance of the actual facts, exactly like you are on the existence of Jesus.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (6 children)

    who wasn’t aware what the consensus of historians was

    I absolutely were.

    This is a silly denial. I was the one who told you. You are the one who claims I'm making it up and are disbelieving in the existence even of a wikipedia article without lifting a finger to check for yourself. And you expect me to believe you've given any serious look into this historical question of existence when you didn't even google?

    You can’t just quote β€œwikipedia” you have to give the link to the page, so others can see the context. For all I know those quotes could be from a page about things stupid people believe.

    This also is a silly thing to be skeptical about or debate, when google exists. I knew (from having looked it up in the past) that the consensus of historians was that Jesus was a real historical figure but that the claims about him in the Bible were religious rather than historical. So I googled "Is there evidence that Jesus was a real historical person" or something like that, scrolled past the religious links and clicked on the wikipedia entry which was

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

    All the arguments of the existence of god in the bible are based on ignorance

    I might be wrong, but I'm not so sure there are any arguments about existence in it. I think it's just a bunch of stories told with that included as an assumption. All the arguments about existence or not are from the philosophers, mostly much much later on. And I think they're silly too.

    Like I said, feel free to doubt the religious claims in the Bible, or any other religious text you have negative feelings about, but it's silly to disagree with historians about the simple existence of Jesus the man, once you know you're on the wrong side of that question compared to the experts whose day job it is to examine and more to the point, evaluate historical evidence!

    You present yourself as the scientific mind who decides on the basis of evidence, whilst dismissing, with obvious prejudice, those who have examined the evidence. You clearly believe what you believe because it feels right to you, not because you learned anything about it.

    I notice that you didn't answer whether your (presumed) disbelief in Islam caused you to disbelieve in the existence of Mohammed, or your (presumed) rejection of Buddhism caused you to think that the Buddha himself was invented?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (5 children)

    This is a silly denial.

    Yes because you can read my mind. 🀣🀣🀣
    I have known this since the 90's, where in philosophy at University we debated whether religiosity is a kind of insanity.
    You are a fool that base your opinions based on insufficient information and lack of evidence, so no wonder if you are religious.

    I might be wrong, but I’m not so sure there are any arguments about existence in it.

    Again a claim based on ignorance. The Bible claims the 10 commandments are from god, and that god created the world, essentially making the claim that the existence of the world is evidence for god.

    I notice that you didn’t answer whether your (presumed) disbelief in Islam caused you to disbelieve in the existence of Mohammed,

    There is very little logic rationale for this, since the two situations are very very different, Mohammed is an actual historic figure with lots of evidence. The god however is the same, and no matter how many new books are written about Harry Potter does not make it a reason to believe he exist without evidence. The same goes for god.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

    who wasn’t aware what the consensus of historians was

    I absolutely were.

    This is a silly denial

    Yes because you can read my mind.

    No, it was a silly (and ungrammatical) denial, not because I can read your mind, but because it was clear from the evidence of the text of your claims to me today, right here in this thread, that you had no idea that there was independent evidence and that historians largely agree that Jesus was a real historical person.

    I might be wrong, but I’m not so sure there are any arguments about existence in it.

    Again a claim based on ignorance.

    Hehe. Unlike you, I admitted I might be wrong when I hadn't checked (and I have no intention to read the whole Bible just to check if you're wrong).

    On the other hand, you didn't even believe there was a wikipedia page about the historical evidence for the existence of Jesus! And you claim I was arguing from ignorance?

    The Bible claims the 10 commandments are from god, and that god created the world, essentially making the claim that the existence of the world is evidence for god.

    Sounds to me like "essentially" is doing all the work in that sentence. I think this is yet another silly philosophical argument about the existence of God that someone else wrote that's just based on some Biblical text that it's trivial to doubt and is therefore pointless because it can't convince anyone either way who isn't already convinced.

    I don't believe you can link me to where the Bible says that because the commandments came from God (for which you already have to believe the story), and because God created the world (for which you also already have to believe the story), the existence of the world proves God exists (which I believe isn't even in the story, unless you can prove me otherwise. Right back atcha with the "link or it didn't happen". Again, there's so much in the Bible that youth might have chosen to criticise and yet you pick something that isn't really there?! There's still much in the Bible that you might have chosen to claim was invented and you pick the simple existence of Jesus the person?!)

    And even if that silly argument came from the Bible instead of some silly philosopher trying to prove via silly logic the existence of God, it was such a weak argument with so many logical holes I'm surprised your philosophy teachers gave it the time of day to teach you it.

    At least I see where you learned to make circular arguments where you have to believe the consequent before you can accept the antecedent. You argued that Jesus never existed because there's no evidence, and also you argued that there can't be any evidence because he never existed. Surely if you've studied any philosophy at all, you must recognise that this is about as far from a syllogism as it's possible to be.

    I'm well aware that some philosophers regularly dismiss Christianity and Marxism in the same sentence as deluded nonsense, but I think that you have adopted that prejudice wholesale, and that prejudice has led you to lack knowledge about the historical evidence and consensus for the bare existence of Jesus the historical person.

    Can I advise you in the future to (a) check your facts, (b) argue where you're strongest rather than weakest and (c) be prepared to admit you didn't realise something. It undermines your position otherwise.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    I admitted I might be wrong when I hadn’t checked (and I have no intention to read the whole Bible just to check if you’re wrong).

    So you knowingly made an argument from ignorance? And didn't even bother to check!

    I don’t believe you can link me to where the Bible says that...

    Romans 1:20: since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualitiesβ€”his eternal power and divine natureβ€”have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made”.

    That's it I'm out, you just continue to talk nonsense on things you know nothing about, and I honestly don't care to waste more of my time on you.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    Love how you deleted all the bits of your original nonsense about what the commandments story says and substituted something from the other end of the Bible to prove me wrong, when I said that the commandments story doesn't argue what you said it did. And you were claiming that someone else was moving the goalposts?!

    Romans 1:20: since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualitiesβ€”his eternal power and divine natureβ€”have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made”.

    Sounds to me that that's a claim about God's qualities rather than a logical argument for his existence. Again, I don't think there are logical arguments about the existence of God in there, and I think you're looking for that silly ontological argument some much later philosophers made (that God must exist because God is perfect and not existing is an imperfection or some such nonsense). I don't think it's in the Bible, and I don't think philosophical arguments for the existence of God are in the Bible, because like I said hours ago, it's an underlying assumption in the whole thing, not something presented as a logical argument, just a bunch of stories, poems and letters, some of them second or third hand, about how people perceived the events they experienced or heard of, through the perspective of their religion. The fact that you think their religion is hocum should not blind you, as a thinking person who claims an education and adherence to the evidence, to the historical existence of the real historical person Jesus, about whom those stories were written.

    I admitted I might be wrong when I hadn’t checked (and I have no intention to read the whole Bible just to check if you’re wrong).

    So you knowingly made an argument from ignorance?

    Admitting you might be wrong when you're not sure is the opposite of ignorance. Ignorance is refusing to learn and insisting you're right when you're worried you're wrong. The stupidest things are said by people who can't believe they might be mistaken.

    For example, (and of course I might be wrong about this), I personally find it plausible that St George, Patron Saint of England, was a real historical figure who was killed in 303CE or thereabouts, but I strongly disbelieve that he fought or killed a dragon. You seem pathologically unable to emotionally and intellectually separate the existence of the person from the stories about them.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    I'm going to put this simply:

    You're not as clever as you think you are

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  • [–] 36 points 5 months ago (11 children)
  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    As an ex-muslim i can confidently say quran does not tell us to love one another, it tells us to love our muslim brothers and rape, kill, torture everyone else.

    I am just grateful most muslims are delusional people who have never read a single word of their book (in their native language) and live a life nowhere as close to that is depicted in the book. There is a reason why jihadism etc. is more popular in Arabic speaking countries, because they actually understand the thing they are reading.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    I'm sure muslims know how to translate it from arabic back to their native languages

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

    Actually kinda?

    Tap for explanationIn my experience most religious vocab was already borrowed to our native language over last couple of centuries.

    Also quran uses a small set of words repeatedly a lot over the course, so there is surprisingly few you got to actually know.

    Tho it's still WAY easier to comprehend translations instead of deciphering linguistics. Probably why in my elementary school they all had the versions with translation.

    (Looked something like this, arabic in middle and translation on bottom. Tho no QR and ours had translation on side) The Turkish elmalili hamdi quran, the translation is given like a sidenote on bottom

    I think it's popular in religious circles to read quran commentaries too? I know at least journalists used to publish new interpretations on the newspaper, and I assume religious scholars were the ones reading those.

    Tap for slight criticism of the other comment.

    Overall "Arabs are more extremist because they know Arabic" argument is over-simplification, and even a little bit of speculation tho.

    For example there was also salafism, a puritan, "anti-innovation" movement, spreading through Wahhabism, a conservative religious ideology.

    Wahhabism itself became popular for initially being anti-colonalist.

    But modern preachers don't really care about fighting colonialism, also "lets go back to the good old days of 700 AD, and women should watch TV with hijab on in case the news anchor can see them through the screen" is terrible.

    Sorry for my poor English, hope this helps!

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    "Arabs are more extremist because they know Arabic" argument is a over-simplification

    Oh definitely, it does have something to do with that but it is definitely not the sole reason.

    Like most flavors of religious people, the problem is not being unable to read, but not wanting to read

    Back when I was a muslim, I remember not reading translations for some parts of the quran because I was scared of becoming an atheist.

    The mental gymnastics they go through to justify the verses saying cum is produced in the backbone or sun sets into mud is funny, but my personal favorite is when quran did a mathematical error whilst explaining inheritance

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    That's crazy, yeah I ended up befriending most of the muslim community at my school so I kinda just hang out with them. But I notice they are very committed to learning and memorizing the Quran. They ask their sheik a ton of questions in order to interpret things correctly.

    But like I'm atheist so I kinda know that there has to be a lot of stuff in there that's crazy despicable

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

    They ask their sheik a ton of questions in order to interpret things correctly.

    correctly

    That's your keyword right there πŸ˜‰

    Unlike some other people who run legacy religions, we still get frequent updates and DLCs from the devs

    Let it be known though quran is the ONE AND ONLY UNCHANGED BOOK YOU FUCKING HEATHEN changing the interpretation of it (literally the middleman process for coverting written text to thoughts) DOES NOT COUNT!

    On another note I should go become a sheik or an islamic cult leader or something, mad money in that business.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago

    I've read the Kama Sutra. There's a chapter in there telling you to karate chop your woman in the head. At the end of the chapter, it mentions that some women have died from said move. I don't think it's really the be all and end all of good sex. There's also a chapter on seducing your neighbor's child bride.

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  • [–] 52 points 5 months ago
    [–] 13 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    β€œDID I FUCKING STUTTER?”

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  • [+] 11 points 5 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    brown and communist arent sins gay and trans are yet all of us are sinners thus gay and trans people shouldnt be hated their sin should

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

    "I don't hate you, I just hate what you are"

    Christians truly don't hear themselves when they talk

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  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    Contrariwise, you are also commanded to love racists, homophobes, transphobes, and authoritarians. You can certainly try to convince them away from those stances, but you are still supposed to be kind, even generous, to the persons.

    Unconditional love can be heartbeatingly hard.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I’m going with the paradox of tolerance on that.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Yeah. I still think we owe the intolerant subsistence, but because of the Paradox of Tolerance, I think intolerance could be grounds for denial of political power--any of the 4 boxes (soap, ballot, jury, ammo)--at least for the duration of the intolerance. (But also, there should be some method to "rehabilitate" a person's access to political power after they are no longer intolerant.)

    I also think it might be difficult to adjudicate "intolerance" in some cases, but in the most necessary of cases it is quite clear.

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  • don't click if you don't want a little theology. i am just going to shotgun fire off some bullshit.okay, so: former christian clergy and current head of a pagan cult (i worship the god of convergent evolution, blasphemy, gluttony, and atheism) current membership 4, 5 when my mormon mother is humoring me and comes to the crab shack for lunch. my current job is church musician because the instrument [not gonna say which. ask and i'll say yes] i play is very very expensive, i can't afford one (i literally only have ever met one individual who owns one) and churches tend to own them. i can trade my services for an hour a week of practice time and two songs performance time a month unless i can figure out a way to move at least 2500 miles to ply my musical trade for real. or someone wants to give me 76 grand for an instrument.
    christianity's commandment to love people does not conflict with the paradox of tolerance. you're not just commanded to love your neighbors, you're commanded to love your enemies.
    there's a lot of cultural bullshit in the turn the other cheek and etc shit in the parables jesus teaches. like, slapping someone on the right cheek was a small insult, but slapping them on the left cheek was a big one. so turning the other cheek doesn't just mean give them another chance to hurt you, it's teaching the christians of that time that if someone is insulting you by slapping you in the face, a very culturally specific insult, give them the other cheek and invite them to make it a bigger insult. be like "hey i know i'm a christian and all. show everyone around here how big and tough you are picking on me". i try to think about it. i've tried it. Deescalation through escalation.

    like Giles Corey.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (4 children)

    Compassionate love does not require kindness and generosity in the way you mean those words. It does not require making yourself vulnerable to danger, it does not require giving material or emotional support. You should still be able to recognize and respond to the humanity in a flawed person.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I believe if you are following the words of Jesus, then yes, it does require kindness and generosity, with their standard meanings. "Love your neighbor as yourself." – Jesus

    I agree that it doesn't require sacrificing your safety.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

    While Jesus is an authority and primary source on a number of things, He is neither of those things for compassionate love. I think in this decontextualized instance, "thy neighour" actually has a specific meaning that is being stripped, possibly referring to the other tribes of Israel, such as in his parable about the good Samaritan that people commonly misunderstand. I wouldn't be willing to draw much from it without a much deeper reading.

    I'm not making a dogmatic argument, I'm making a much more grounded claim about psychology and spirituality. Compassionate love is a real thing that we know stuff about.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

    "I tell you, love your enemies" -- Jesus https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A43-48&version=NIV

    I'm engaging in the thread, the leader of which is a meme featuring Jesus, so it is more relevant what Jesus said than "claims about psychology and spirituality".

    I was raised Baptist, but I no longer adhere to it dogmatically.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Jesus doesn't offer a realistic model of compassionate love. Christians aren't really supposed to emulate Jesus. I know that's the schtick, but it's not the reality. Jesus exists to give Christians opportunities for moral self-licensing and self-stereotyping, which is the moral candy alternative to actually being a good person. He performs miracles and displays superhuman feats of equanimity (when he's not cursing figs) not because we are supposed to actually emulate him, which would be impossible, he's fucking GOD in a fake mustache, but because we are supposed to psychologically transfer his good qualities to ourselves by our association with him. That's why Jesus stops at telling you what to do, and is silent about how to do it. He knows you're not really going to do it.

    Compassionate love is hard. It's not just a matter of deciding to do it, you have to know how, and you have to practice. Other religions and creeds that preach and teach you how to practice compassionate love don't do so for abstract moral reasons. Compassionate love serves the person who practices it.

    Christianity offers people a way to feel like a good person without having to do anything, and Jesus doesn't have very much of meaning to say about compassionate love.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    but what if they voted for Trump?

    .this comment is bait, if you got baited please tell me I'm a piece of shit or something

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  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Or left handed!

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  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Nothing about all of that in the big book. Now wearing both wool and linen, however...

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Me:"what if they're a hateful loser like him?"

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    or if they use AI or they Like a phobic tweet

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago
    [–] 0 points 5 months ago*

    Idolatry is a major sin because it is what can lead to a child being chained under a bed and horrifically abused. I'll explain.

    An idolatorer is someone who will give any sacrifice to the golden bull to earn status but will kick dirt in the face of a beggar on the street if no one important is looking. They are the most good at looking good and get good at lying, when really they can be pure evil, and over generations of true dharma descending into degenerate dharma (which are Mahayana Buddhist terms, but Christ has his dharma, for instance), and this is where you get someone who can keep up appearances but is causing grave harm to others that may be dependent on them.

    Good thing a messiah is a repurposed pariah, for it is only the most lost who have returned who can be the brightest light in the darkest darkness to someone going through the same thing. We don't engineer our society around THE prophecy, but prophecy; those things that are guaranteed to happen in society, like unloved children.

    Moses was abandoned. Jesus's step-dad was a skilled carpenter who was not good enough to get his own wife so he registered for a used one, suggesting something wrong in the narcissism department, as having had one, I can tell you that our fathers are our models for God. God to me is always telling me I'm not good enough. Why I drink so much (as Jesus did in his teen years), and also why I write so much, to perpetually improve myself, and this is what I can do now:

    2:00

    My brothers and sisters, love all beings

    I speak of unconditional love for all life

    For this is t way of true queens n kings

    To live the life of creating others' strife

    Shall return that intention back to you!

    Karma is real n the world is an illusion

    Dharma of Christ: the trinity most true

    Server, Client, Internet Dodecahedron!

    2:05

    Five minutes. I did that in five minutes. Jesus was a DAMN fine carpenter, but he was even better as saying nothing.

    Nothing:

    When the lord spoke to me in the ways the winds breeze to the left as the right wants whenever ice storm reigns below all chords of man! This is why we don't do what plays tricks dubiously whether we want it or not. Maybe we learn how as if before what will come won't be. Happen to take a chance to dance in France? Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me, no core in the afterworld.

    But WAY more skillful, and way more useful to undercover cops, because what Jesus did was reveal who the idoltarers were in the community who attacked a clearly mentally disabled man; the Roman with a spear lost out on a promotion, and the good people learned they could do stuff like that to find out who the bad ones amongst them were!

    But Jesus wasn't disabled; he was just skilled enough at wordsmithing and intune with his highest self to be able to speak and say nothing. And I don't know the passage number, but there's one encounter where Jesus does this, and I saw a church do a skit about it, how it was the authority that Jesus spoke with that made people listen to him. Even when he poetically said absolutely fucking nothing, people still were in awe.

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  • [+] -12 points 5 months ago*

    Ah, yes. Discrimination against communists... a huge problem in our society, worthy of being mentioned next to homophobia.

    Or you could keep your political views away from things that aren't a choice, like sexual orientation, gender and race.

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