all 7 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [S] 15 points 5 months ago
[–] 11 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

I haven't watched the video, but two things I wonder:

  • Surely he signed an agreement when he was hired promising they could hit him with an enormous lawsuit if he ever spilled "muh trade secrits." I'm wondering how he got away with this unless all he's sharing is public info.
  • Is anything Atlassian has done really that non-obvious that anyone couldn't just reproduce (or improve on) it from scratch just given some thinking and elbow grease? (Like, Confluence is a glorified WYSIWIG editor. Bamboo is Jenkins slightly spiffed up so it doesn't still feel like something straight out of 1991. And another Jira can be easily procured by anyone willing to travel to hell and request the next steaming shit Satan takes.)
  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] [S] 11 points 5 months ago

    I was curious about the NDA bit as well, but I guess it's the sort of stuff you'd talk about in a tech interview as well. He's not revealing any deep secrets there. And while none of this stuff is necessarily rocket science, it is always interesting to see how big companies structure stuff that needs to run at scale. A lot of this stuff gets figured out through trial and error, and you can save some time by learning what worked for others.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    Um is there anything to know? Jira is a basic CRUD app that's backed by reasonably good deployment, operations, marketing, sales, and low enough prices for smaller plans that people don't bother to self-host their own alternative. But it doesn't seem mysterious how it works.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago

    Jira is just part of Atlassian's offerings. You've got the second-rate Wikipedia knock-off that is Confluence, the will-it-won't-it play video hosting of Loom, and BitBucket with its bizarrely awful API performance and rate limits for a Git host. Admittedly, I used to think that BB presented pull requests in a more reviewable way than eg. GitHub, but they're abandoned the things that made it distinctive in exchange for the follow-the-leader approach, so now it's just a less-good GH. And I don't say that lightly, it's a low bar to limbo under.

    In fact, I kind of prefer managing tickets via post-its on a whiteboard then using Jira, as it actually allows you to see everything important at a glance, and micromanaging middle management don't get to set up bizarre and wonky workflows and rules, and a thousand bullshit fields to fill in on every ticket.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Any company seeing this video will avoid hiring him.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • 49 comments in c/programming@programming.dev view that post
    [+] 140 points 5 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    No shit right?

    I'd pay you to shit my hand in a drawer if it meant I didn't have to use atlassian

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    I'd pay you to shit my hand in a drawer if it meant I didn't have to use atlassian

    How would you get your hand into the drawer, and why wouldn’t we just do it over a toilet like civilized people?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Huh? One is a productivity, planning, and documentation platform, the other is a container orchestration platform. Neither are homemade.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I don't think so at all. Jira today is quite good. If you want something really shitty try Azure DevOps.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago*

    I just want it to be less buggy. When it works, it's alright but often I'd need to refresh the page for tasks to actually load rather than just showing a white panel.

    Also if Bitbucket wouldn't stop going down every month, that'd be great.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 199 points 5 months ago (12 children)

    I’ve watched the video and work at Atlassian, that’s entirely not what the video is. The guy basically just goes over what he worked on and some things he learned. It’s basically a solid video resumé with a clickbait title. Nothing he says is new or scandalous - most of it’s open source.

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 33 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    Atlassin is such a weird company to me. Used bitbucket a decade ago and everything just kept changing, things bought, what I used didn't feel like it got better. Is it a good place to work?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago

    The company claims good values and I would say mostly lives up to them, especially transparency. Though overall it is slowly becoming more corporate as it grows and especially leans in to AI hype.

    The people and compensation and benefits are great, you get a lot of resources (can just spin up a fully hosted app via a terminal command if you want).

    I am also lucky to be part of a small, internal-facing, chill, and yet important team so my experience on day-to-day work would definitely differ from a random Jira dev though.

    I’ve not yet met anybody who has disliked working at the company — everybody dislikes the ‘APEX’ system used for measuring performance though lmao.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago* (7 children)

    As someone who is using the Atlassian stack daily, Bitbucket (self hosted) is by far the best product from the stack. Jira is okay if you actually plan on using its features extensively. Confluence is... Well, it tries. I'd even prefer plain Mediawiki over it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    That’s funny, before I joined Atlassian my previous company also used their stack and Confluence was the only product I could stomach. All the products have rapidly evolved over the last few years though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago* (3 children)

    Jira is extremely configuration dependent. It can be good and it can be awful. Companies with bad processes will configure it in the same way and I believe that's where most of the hate comes from. Bitbucket is pretty decent by now. It's just not very feature rich. But that's not really a problem for this type of software if you hand over to other tools with the extensive web hooks. But confluence... It feels like it has been stuck in time while Mediawiki is continually closing the gap. Especially automatically updating pages is a pain with the weird and fragile code that represents the pages internally.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 5 months ago

    This is spot on, I've used four Jira system that if I didn't know they were all Jira, I would have though they were different products with similar "generic enterprise" styling. That being said, I've rather strongly disliked every instance of Jira I've used. It probably stems from the fact that I have maintained and built over a dozen ticketing systems over the years and some of the annoyances and rough edges just feel like solved problems to me.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I used to hate Jira. Until I had to use Clickup. I don't mind Jira anymore.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    I loved early days clickup. Then they stacked feature on top of feature on top of feature. Left to try manage things in more simple tools like trello and even tried youtrack (was so fucking slow we left). Then Linear came around and it has been good but gradually feels like it's going the way of clickup.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 40 points 5 months ago

    showing how the company's entire tech works

    Simple, it doesn't.

  • source
  • [–] 54 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    free for anyone to copy

    I don't think their system architecture is a secret. This kind of stuff is regularly discussed in interviews.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 26 points 5 months ago

    I think that is the rub though. If your interview pipeline has system design questions all based around your arch that someone just released a youtube vid dissecting, you're going to struggle to get signal out those interviews. False positive hires are arguably worse than false negatives.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 19 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    Aw shit we use JIRA at work. Will it get worse now?

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 49 points 5 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Oh you sweet summer child. Have you seen Rational Team Concert?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago

    You're the other person that used RTC?! I had heard there was another but I was starting to think it was just a legend.

    I migrated an entire codebase from a combo of RCS, CVS, and Subversion. This was about 10 minutes before git started to hit in a big way.

    I'd call it a dumpster fire but that really disrespects dumpster fires.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    It's the best I've ever used, so take that for what you will Action Remedy System was...something.

    Although ive found that Jira and Confluence Cloud madr dozens and dozens of bad decisions and regressions over the oon-prem version.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

    we (team of 15) use salesforce and a promise to include issue numbers in our (svn) commit msgs all on one dev branch so when we cherry pick merge later to qa we can “safely” assume we got it all. 30% of the time it works 10% of the time.

    i can’t convince these guys code is not “self documenting” let alone use git or a tool for proper bug reporting.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago*

    I had a boss who wrote a script to automatically remove all comments from code for pull requests. Since nobody ever added meaningful comments to their commits (or made any contributions at all to the alleged documentation), the code base was a complete mystery to the people who were actually working on it. God knows what it seemed like to new developers added to the project. But hey, comments are a "code smell" (his exact words) so it was all good.

    His primary justification of his "comments bad" philosophy was that if comments aren't kept up-to-date with the code, they can mislead and confuse future developers. This gets said a lot but it is something that I have literally never seen in 25 years of programming (I've witnessed -- and participated in -- a large number of project failures, and misleading comments have never been the cause of the failure). I pointed out that the same exact thing could be said about method and variable names but nobody ever advocates not using descriptive method and variable names; he had no response to this.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    kinda depends how you set it up and run it, no?

    i have some simple new projects that are clean and easy, and some 10+ year old monstrosities that are the spawn of satan.

    need to use ublock to stop the insane 'pls bro buy our ai' pop-up though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago

    For those tired of being nickel & dimed, you can hop the wall here.

  • source
  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    haven't watched the video yet, but the medium article sounds very much like llm slop

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago

    I hope someone at azure sees it 😅

  • source
  • [–] 17 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I use Atlassian products every day.

    I'm good. 😒

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I don't know if this is really effective revenge. An understanding of the software isn't why businesses outsource to a company like Atlassian. Its convenience. If Atlassian's product is good enough why build your own?

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago

    Hope he doesn't get sued to oblivion over this

  • source
  • 12 comments in c/austech@aussie.zone view that post
    [–] 36 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Honestly who'd want to copy their tech stack. Products like JIRA and confluence are notoriously bad and slow and hated by developers forced to use it. And all the good products are things they acquired over the years.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    Trello was excellent before Atlassian started “improving” it. You’d always have to fight tooth-and-nail to keep your Trello board against managers who said it lacked features, even though precisely all the features a fucking kanban board needs is showing some tickets and columns.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Perhaps its a guide on what not to do?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    As another former Atlassian engineer I'd say kinda yes and kinda no depending on which bits you're looking at.

    One important thing a person could learn is: use existing platforms. Do not build a proprietary version of something like kubernetes. The weird internal eventing systems and fake janky kubernetes junk gave me headaches.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    One time I was at a place where we got a local ISP to build us a cloud virtualisation service at a discount (i.e. we were the guinea pig), but of course it was terrible and took ages to provision anything - so when someone in Platform stood up a Rancher cluster all of the devs immediately switched to using that.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 19 points 5 months ago
    [–] [S] 7 points 5 months ago

    Medium post is strange reading.

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    If be pretty pissed off if I got laid off from a company with twelve rounds of interviews and technical interviews to prove you can invert a b-tree in o(1), and then you finally start the job and it’s just the same lame legacy code and poorly thought-out technical decisions (let’s roll our own event bus!) as everywhere else for a product that your users hate because they’re forced to use it.

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

    Skimmed parts of the video. First thought was "Wait, is he showing and discussing Atlassian internal code/architecture?"

    If I were him, I would have read my employment contract more carefully to understand what belongs to Atlassian or him, what he can or can not keep, and can or can not disclose.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] 11 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I think everything he shows is open source. He mentions where repos can be found.

    The post title, which I didn't change when crossposting, and the medium post are garbage. I'm pretty sure the medium post misquotes him as I read it again after watching the video. It's also weirdly written, like slop weird.

    The video is interesting though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Yeah, but the sense I got is he's not talking about the open source or standard, he's talking about Atlassian's specific implementation, and other non-standards based work besides the OSB.

    In normal employment contracts, that's a no-no.

    If you're interested in the video, grab a copy, because I'd reckon Atlassian could have it pulled if they want. And sue the guy as well.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    Please god dont copy it, do better. The bar is so low

  • source