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[–] 294 points 6 months ago (4 children)

This is really bad even just from the perspective of user behavior. Training people to scan QR codes from anything that looks like a captcha box is HORRIBLE for security.

"Thanks for scanning the code, just one more step! Please input your phone number, and type in the code you receive."

Boom, account stolen.

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  • [–] 23 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    And the phone number thing is already happening too. Google, discord and probably other stuff already ask for a phone number to prove you are a human when they flag your account.

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  • [–] 195 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    If google requires me to permit other companies to leech all my personal data to be able to use anything on the Internet at all, I say we label Google, Microsoft, Apple as criminal organizations

    I'm sorry, bit there have to be limits.

    I. DO. NOT. WANT. TO. USE. ANYTHING. GOOGLE.

    OR APPLE. OR MICROSOFT.

    FUCK ALL THESE OLIGARCH COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND

    I do not want my private data leeches and sold every day, I don't even get paid for it

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  • [–] 113 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    They should be fined so hard for this shit.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago

    And forced to open-source their OS'es. And have to make their communities owned by the people instead of corpos. We are all beyond pissed and done with their shit. Everyone get more people on board into the movement daily to be focused on getting things done together!! Keep each other in the fight with online and in-person communities

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  • [–] 221 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    well, I guess i will stop using those websites from my /e/os fairphone

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    [–] 90 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    Let's hope the EU prevents this from happening. We should be able to access every site we wish without Google's permission.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago

    We should all be encouraging Europeans to:

    1. Force Android and iOS to be given to the people to own and open-source the OS fully in EU with GPL license
    2. Fine them to oblivion if they do not cooperate
    3. If they try to double down then piece up their companies into parts

    We all tired of their fucking shit. Everyone keep getting people active and informed on all this!! Together anything is possible!!

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  • [+] -11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)

    The EU is busily building the Fourth Reich, so don't expect help from there.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    LOL, whatever you're taking, stop, it's doing your brain in! :D

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    The ongoing battle against online privacy is a symptom of capitalism, the EU is a capitalist state. The only thing the EU would ever do against US-based capitalism is to gobble up those capital gains for themselves. It doesn't matter if it happes or not, the privacy-issues for end-users would never be alleviated by the EU.

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  • [–] -3 points 6 months ago*

    From what you're saying, they would've already introduced all those capitalist methods of control the first time around.

    Which they didn't.

    What gives?

    Also: the EU is literally incapable of "gobbling up capital gains for themselves" because "themselves" doesn't exist in this context - the EU is not a "State". The member-states might (and some do).

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  • [–] 88 points 6 months ago

    Fuck em. If websites use this, I don't need to see their shit or patronize their business. Google can eat a dick.

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  • [–] 65 points 6 months ago

    Not noticed it and fuck those websites. Happy to boycott.

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  • [–] 54 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Eventually privacy minded people like us will have to start creating and visiting sites on the dark web.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Sheesh, using alternative sites instead of Facebook and Reddit isn't using the dark web.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    if they add this requirement for the "I'm not a robot" technology this affects way more than stupid Facebook, reddit and the likes, most things behind anti DDoS use this shit.

    I find this very dystopian, and there are not many "oh I'll just visit the sites than don't have it" alternatives. You might as well just open IRC and be done with it, I tend to visit a bit more of the internet (even if I haven't visited Facebook, Instagram and the likes in years)

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago

    Ayup absolutely. Those co's have such weight. They can drive this into essential services. Banks. Gov services. All online stores. Heck even sites that don't need logins.

    It's short sighted to say "I'll just use other sites then". The end of that road is, we get excluded from modern life.

    You're so right, it's dystopian.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    No fuck that we must continue to grow the movement and get more people on board. We don't give in to those rats and their garbage they try to put on us. Together we all can do together. Fuck them. Many of us already are doing and the more the better

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  • [+] 51 points 6 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Default GrapeneOS camera app has a QR code scanner

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  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    And how can the camera scan its own phone screen for the QR?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I think apps can have screenshot permission, so just by using that feature

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  • [–] 47 points 6 months ago (21 children)

    Need to break up these monopolies. Really the root of all bad about capitalism.

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  • [–] 40 points 6 months ago (19 children)

    The "root of bad" is capitalism itself, the logic of the system tends to create monopolies over time, as demonstrated in the game 'Monopoly'

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    It's the love of money that's the root of all evil, according to Jesus, but yeah, that's the driving force behind capitalism.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    It’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil

    Thank you for getting this quote right. Often, it’s shortened to “money is the root of all evil”, which hits different, and removes the element of personal responsibility. The “love of money” bit is important.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Exactly. Money as a tool is fine. You need a way to pay for stuff. It's the love of money, money as a goal in itself, far beyond what you'll ever need to live, that's the problem.

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  • [+] -9 points 6 months ago (14 children)

    Capitalism is fine small scale, most systems are. Humans are just wired for efficiency and so with every player on the same board the most ruthless player wins.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    Ah yes, the mythical small business capitalism we all hear about. I will agree it sounds good on paper and also seems to distribute money in a somewhat efficient manner.

    Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.

    I think there is a worthwhile debate here around systems and culture. Perhaps capitalism could work if people were not inherently so greedy. I tend to believe that culture is the deciding factor which is a little disheartening honestly.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (10 children)

    It's not just culture. Most people value community and the well-being of others above amassing wealth (provided their needs are met). The problem is that capitalism indoctrinates us against those values, and even more that it rewards and empowers those who don't share them at all.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    @Doomsider@lemmy.world

    Unfortunately there has never been a government able to regulate and keep capitalism this way. Other people have said it is simply not possible due to the nature of capitalism.

    the primary "authoritarian" government of the world has proven that it is possible and that keeping them under a tight leash is the only way to prevent them from indoctrinating the masses; that's why the number of billions and the wealth of the its millionaires have been steadily declining for the last decade or so, while simultaneously continuing to improve the quality of life for its citizens; meanwhile while the united states is poised to get its first trillionaire class very soon.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    I sure hope you are not talking about China as they have produced more billionaires than the US for the last two years dramatically increasing their income gap. If you think they have capitalism in check I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (7 children)

    you're not wrong -- china's billionaire count is up. but here's the cycle that people in the west miss: a new crop of billionaires come along (eg. tech, evs, ai) and they replace the old crop (eg. real estate & manufacturing) that the chinese gov't already short-leashed, and boom, numbers jumped.

    that new crop will experience their own slowdown too once they get their own short-leashes like the previous crop did. it happened around 2018-2024, and it'll happen again and again. china's churn is fast, but the pattern's the same every time: rise, stall, replace; no permanent footing/beachhead for a billionaire class from which to capture the system or spread misinformation like it is in the united states.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago* (6 children)

    The creation of even one billionaire is a dramatic failure for both culture and policy. Please spare me the hand waving.

    Pretending billionaires are in check because the one party murders anyone who they disagree with is not what I would call an efficient system. Entire districts built that were empty without people, massive fraud, and waste. If you are pointing to this disorganized mess and proudly saying look at what we can do I am going to have to point out that it is ridiculous.

    What China did do was lift several hundred million people out of poverty. Of course they turned to capitalism to do it and only after their failed policies cost tens of millions of lives. Instead of building on this accomplishment they have chosen to create a new billionaire social class on the backs of 6 days a week 12 hour shift working class.

    China is increasingly looking a lot like the US with only one party. They are now the fourth largest producer of arms supplying conflict regions with weapons of death and destruction. They have built their country by working hand in hand with the US. China is great because of the US not despite it.

    The narratives the one party pushes are garbage and you truly have to be naive to believe the propaganda they spew forth.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (5 children)

    so much to to unpack, so i'm going to focus on the misinformation in your comment.

    first, claiming china "murders anyone they disagree with" isn't evidence -- it's hyperbole. china's authoritarian, history suggests a necessity for it, but that line doesn't help your argument.

    second, you say china turned to capitalism after "failed policies cost tens of millions of lives." that's a enormous, contested historical claim you're dropping like it's settled fact; it's not.

    third, "china is great because of the us" is incredible oversimplification. china's growth came from its own labor, reforms, and global trade -- yes, including with the us, but that's mutual benefit, not charity.

    you're right to criticize billionaire wealth and long work hours. but mixing valid criticism with exaggerated or contested claims just weakens your point. stick to the facts when criticizing china -- believe me, they're more than damning enough on their own.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    https://www.goldsea.com/article_details/china-executed-14-billionaires-for-corruption

    Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you "team" doesn't mean everyone else is.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

    It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.

    "Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion."

    Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.

    I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (3 children)

    you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.

    goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.

    wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.

    the us investment figure -- $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn't invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that "china is great because of the us" is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you're confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.

    nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy's kool-aid and china’s at the same arm’s length -- while your sources show that you full-throatedly chug the former.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago* (2 children)

    Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.

    I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.

    I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.

    I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.

    I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    dismissing my source critique as a "trope" while spending multiple comments labeling me as indoctrinated, in denial, and propagandized is not a debate; it's a shield. (but it atleast didn't devolve into the usual name calling and snarkiness that typifies these exchanges).

    also source critique isn't a "trope." it's how you separate solid evidence from noise or state sponsored propaganda. if your sources can't hold up to basic scrutiny, the problem isn't my attitude -- it's your evidence.

    you're clearly smart and passionate, but calling everyone who pushes back "indoctrinated" is just a faster way to stop listening; there's no such thing as an unbiased/neutral party.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago

    You are not the first, second, or even the 100th person I have had this conversation with. If I am assuming something incorrectly I apologize.

    You must understand when you are in denial about basic facts and spew common propaganda talking points you are going to get a similar response from most people who are aware of bias.

    You are clearly a smart person so please know when someone else calls you on your bias it is for your benefit. The fact that you are personalizing being indoctrinated is silly. I receive the exact same type of push back and denialism from people who defend the US, so regardless of choosen country the results are the same.

    I have a strong bias against governments and human rights abuses. I have an extremely negative view of the US and the countless crimes they have committed. When I was much younger I spent a considerable amount of time moving through socialist and communist circles.

    As I have grown older I have begun to see through the rhetoric and propaganda of many systems, cultures, and governments I used to a look up to. Believe me when I say there is no government that deserves humanity currently.

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  • [–] 31 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I wont visit a website if they require my identity. Other options out there.

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  • [–] 28 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    what will this mean for the upcoming motorola phones that can come with gOS installed?

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    They're still subject to the same dumbassery Google is trying to pull. Any OS that doesn't conform to Google Play standards is a target.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Watch Motorola sue Google for this.

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  • [–] 27 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    And then Google retaliates by not allowing Motorola to include Google Play on any of their devices. In the end, Motorola just cancels their GrapheneOS partnership.

    Monopolies are the number one reason everything sucks, and will continue to suck until we get non-corrupt politicians (which is impossible)

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Motorola has two options:

    A. Cancel the GOS partnership and cause a boycott on ThinkPads (don't forget, Lenovo owns Motorola).

    B. Put their feet in the ground, die a hero and maybe bring Google down.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 months ago

    That's probably a reason they're doing this now. To stifle what might start to be a sizable amount of pushback. Sizable is still single digits but if it hits a whole % instead of >1 then we might start getting somewhere

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  • [–] 56 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    This does seem to work with sandboxed Google Play Services on GrapheneOS btw.

    I scanned the demo QR code on Google's talk page about it with sandboxed Play Services enabled and it gave me a custom popup asking if I'd like to verify.

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    and you can do it from a second profile which contains none of your data.

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  • [–] 35 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Unless you're doing that from a separate device in a separate location then all you're doing is giving them the data they need to link those two accounts

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  • [–] 23 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.

    Sandboxed Google Play Services doesn't have privileged access to location information, so it can't pull your GPS location or Wifi Positioning information. It would only see a blank profile and doing this would allow for your primary profile to continue to not run Play Services.

    Any malicious code which could be injected into the process would find itself in a sandbox, on a blank profile and isolated from the rest of the system.

    Google would only see that you are authenticating from a profile without anything installed, from an unknown location and coming from whatever VPN endpoint that you'd like. They could possibly infer that the blank profile and your 'real' profile are different via browser fingerprinting. You can randomize a lot of fingerprinting datapoints with browser extensions, but avoiding browser fingerprinting is a whole other topic.

    The 'real' privacy solution is to avoid anything that uses this version of recaptcha. However, if you have to use these services then you can still reduce the amount of information leaked via Play Services by using a blank profile to scan the QR codes.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    You're right, you're not going to achieve complete anonymity if you're interacting with Google services in any way, but you can reduce the amount of information that they receive.

    its not even about complete anonymity. google has zero business in when I'm logging into my utilities company account, or other semi-governmental portals!

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)

    it literally is their business; they make millions of dollars off of it.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    then that's a problem we must solve. Because an adtech company should definitely not have any business in that.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    it has been solved for approximately 2 billion people on this planet, but those answers are not friendly to profit-seeking institutions like google and the only remaining institutions that can stop it are captured by the likes of google

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  • [–] 27 points 6 months ago

    I run e/OS/. Block me. I'm good. There is plenty out there that doesn't require Google.

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  • [–] 26 points 6 months ago

    This is just ID verification in another guise. The second I see one of these, I'll stop using the website I see it on.

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  • [+] 25 points 6 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago

    Google reducing traffic for websites worldwide.

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