Doomsider comments on I was a week away from buying a Pixel Pro 10 for GrapheneOS

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (4 children)

https://www.goldsea.com/article_details/china-executed-14-billionaires-for-corruption

Hyperbole, please. They actively use capital punishment. Just because you are okay with human rights violations because it is you "team" doesn't mean everyone else is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

It is accepted that the famine was man made. I will gladly bring receipts because I am not in denial about reality.

"Over 6,700 American companies built operations in China by 2016, with a total estimated investment value exceeding $228 billion."

Where do you think China got all its investment money and technology. China helped billionaires in the US grow richer while allowing them to turn China into another capitalist hellscape. If your in denial about this that is okay.

I have not exaggerated anything, in fact I have only talked about the tip of a very big iceberg. I get you are indoctrinated into their propaganda. Obviously though, you can even see through some of their bullshit.

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[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 1 point 5 months ago* (3 children)

you're not wrong about everything you've stated, but you're also only half correct because your sources have skin in the game.

goldsea.com – your execution article. goldsea's an asian american ad-driven news aggregator, not an independent investigative outlet. like any all other media, their business model rewards sensational headlines. that's not a neutral source -- it's a conflict of interest baked in. in this case, they profit from making china look as brutal as possible. the article itself recycles cases from 2006 and 2008. why? because recent examples are harder to find or less dramatic and includes no updates for the cases; suspended sentences are a thing in china.

wikipedia & the great famine – yes, the famine happened. but wikipedia's sourcing on that page leans heavily on western cold war-era scholarship, almost all of which had its own political axe to grind and even liberals today recognize this. not saying the famine is false -- it's not -- but citing wikipedia as objective truth while calling me brainwashed is something very special. not even elementary school students are allowed to cite wikipedia anymore because of how wrong it frequently is.

the us investment figure -- $228 billion from american companies. those companies didn't invest out of generosity. they invested for profit. so citing them as proof that "china is great because of the us" is like saying a customer made a restaurant successful out of kindness. like most americans, you're confusing corporate/oligarchic self-interest as if it were altruism.

nobody’s neutral. The difference is I hold the epstein oligarchy's kool-aid and china’s at the same arm’s length -- while your sources show that you full-throatedly chug the former.

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago* (2 children)

Everything I have stated is backed up by many years of research. I feel very comfortable with my statements. They are not exaggerated as you implied. I can go much further, but you would of course deny it all so there is little point.

I am not interested in your attack the messenger/source approach. This is a common trope of people who try to defend human rights abusing governments. Please don't confuse my criticism of China with my lack of ability to criticize the US. I have spent most of my life studying human rights abuses by the US.

I get you want to deny everything bad China has done, it is obvious you are indoctrinated because you bring up all the same talking points that are disseminated as propaganda by China.

I totally get you are denial of the US China partnership. They have been sleeping in each other's beds for a long time now despite the constant Orwellian propaganda from both sides. Saber rattlers aside, it is clear these economies are intertwined in ways that neither government would like to admit.

I do appreciate you maintain some impartiality though. You have said some interesting things that I will further research in the future. Thank you.

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[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 1 point 5 months ago (1 child)

dismissing my source critique as a "trope" while spending multiple comments labeling me as indoctrinated, in denial, and propagandized is not a debate; it's a shield. (but it atleast didn't devolve into the usual name calling and snarkiness that typifies these exchanges).

also source critique isn't a "trope." it's how you separate solid evidence from noise or state sponsored propaganda. if your sources can't hold up to basic scrutiny, the problem isn't my attitude -- it's your evidence.

you're clearly smart and passionate, but calling everyone who pushes back "indoctrinated" is just a faster way to stop listening; there's no such thing as an unbiased/neutral party.

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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago

You are not the first, second, or even the 100th person I have had this conversation with. If I am assuming something incorrectly I apologize.

You must understand when you are in denial about basic facts and spew common propaganda talking points you are going to get a similar response from most people who are aware of bias.

You are clearly a smart person so please know when someone else calls you on your bias it is for your benefit. The fact that you are personalizing being indoctrinated is silly. I receive the exact same type of push back and denialism from people who defend the US, so regardless of choosen country the results are the same.

I have a strong bias against governments and human rights abuses. I have an extremely negative view of the US and the countless crimes they have committed. When I was much younger I spent a considerable amount of time moving through socialist and communist circles.

As I have grown older I have begun to see through the rhetoric and propaganda of many systems, cultures, and governments I used to a look up to. Believe me when I say there is no government that deserves humanity currently.

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