From bouncing around my favorite corners of the Internet, I get the impression that large numbers of people have "a guy" (of any gender), akin to a weed dealer in furtiveness and legality, who is hooking them up with an underground, probably Plex-based (but increasingly moving to Jellyfin), streaming service. I get the impression that there are hundreds to thousands of these little "Plex server" operations, each serving a couple dozen to a hundred or so users out of the goodness/vileness of each "guy"'s heart and the hobby budget of that "guy"'s homelab. This isn't all Plex gets used for or even necessarily the main use case, but I think they're out there.

Obviously no "guy" will admit to doing this, but my "Plex Server Guy Theory" neatly explains this post announcing that general discussions of piracy are allowed in the Lemmy.ml Plex community and this post by someone apparently serving enough new Plex user volume that a webhook would be convenient to have. I've also seen people discussing Plex refer to "my users", as if they have a user base of friends and trusted or semi-trustred acquaintances rather than just a household or family.

I personally neither have nor am a "Plex Server Guy", nor do I know anyone who has admitted to me that they do have or are one, so I can't be sure they really exist. But I have suspicions.

Are "Plex Server Guys" as I imagine them real and common and I am just too square to have ever been invited to do crimes with everyone else? Are they rare in real life but enriched in the dubious/cool corners of the Internet? Does it depend on your country? What's the deal?

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[–] 83 points 9 months ago (10 children)

I am that guy. I got pissed off that there was no way to buy all of the episodes of Good Eats legally. Next thing I knew, I had a dual xeon server and 60TB of hard drives. Of the 50 or so people using my server I think 6 have servers of their own.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Good Eats radicalized me too. Not for plex but for cooking.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    Yeah, everyone in my family has cooked professionally for at least a few years. My wife's family lived off of microwaved food. As I was teaching her that food could have flavor, she started asking questions about cooking that were easier to answer with a clip from good eats. Eventually, I went looking for a boxed set of it, and one hadn't been released. So I spent the $600 I was willing to spend on it on a server.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Did you find a good source for good eats? The only one I found was low quality TV rips.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I grabbed the low quality complete rip, and have sonarr set to upgrade episodes. Even a decade later, I think I still have a few 480p/720p episodes.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    I don't do any of this stuff, but it's really interesting to me.

    Do you mean that sonarr is always looking for a better version of content you already have, and that over time your library gets upgraded? that's pretty cool. Can you specify versions in your "shopping list", like the special edition or director's cut or even a VHScopy?

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I can't say how many people are trying to make money on it, but there are plenty of folks running Plex or Jellyfin servers that they'll allow friends and family to access. And I would estimate that a fairly low percentage of those have no pirated content on them. So even for the small-group servers, discussions of piracy are often relevant.

    I do run a Jellyfin server, but only locally on my own network.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    there any guides you'd recommend for setting up and starting your own jellyfin server (as well tips for combing/curating new stuff for your library, ideally). am tech literate enough to follow guides but not enough to figure out automation process entirely myself

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The Jellyfin Documentation has info on setting it up and installing it. I have it running on an odroid hc4, but pretty much anything with enough storage will be fine (an old laptop laying around is a great way to experiment with server stuff).

    I don't have much in terms of automation--I have a script that syncs local files with my server. What else did you have in mind?

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  • [–] 59 points 9 months ago (24 children)

    I’m a Plex server guy for friends and family, I have about a dozen users and maybe 3-4 at a time at the peaks. I charge nothing, it’s just a hobby. We’re out there.

    I’d switch to Jellyfin but my users need transcoding and Plexamp is my favorite audio player since Winamp.

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I'm a Jellyfin Server Guy, and same deal. Around a dozen friends & fam, no charge.

    I'm not sure why needing transcoding would keep you off Jellyfin though, Jellyfin transcodes just fine.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    How do you share it? I assume you don't expose it to the Internet as is?

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Does Jellyfin not do transcoding? I’ve been using it with transcoding for almost two years, so if it doesn’t, man that’s gonna be quite the shock.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I dunno, maybe it didn’t when I was first setting up my server a few years back. It doesn’t have Plexamp though and that’s a deal breaker.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Doesn’t have the excellent Plexamp automix nor ability to add all my friends shares to my radio stations.

    I appreciate the efforts but I’m very happy with my current setup. It works, it’s almost zero maintenance, and I got lifetime plex pass for like $50 years ago.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    By radio are you referring to proxying internet radio streams, rebroadcasting OTA using an SDR, or an endless playlist stream?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    None of the above, well maybe the last one. Plexamp has algorithmically generated playlists based off song/album/artist, decades, genres, top rated tracks, etc. including auto mixing with crossfading, and ability to choose tracks not only from your own libraries, but from all libraries shared with you.

    This feature has done wonders for library discovery as I have an absolutely massive music stash. It’s completely replaced music discovery via streaming apps for me.

    I really do appreciate all the efforts to inform me of JF features but I am quite happy with my setup currently, and I don’t want to reconfigure all my shit AND get 12 n users to switch apps. It was hard enough as it is.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

    I'm that guy as well, but can't get family to use it. So when they complain they can't stream something, I just ignore them. I do it for myself, they just get it because. But I'm not going to keep offering, fuck it. Go spend your money on shitty streaming services. I've got 7000 movies now and almost 300 series.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I’m specifically doing this to get family and friends to cancel their streaming subscriptions. Not to save them money, to hurt the corporations more than I can do just myself.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I love wireguard for this. If they can't get that working, then no jellyfin for them. Filters out the PEBKAC people wonderfully.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    I've been wondering about this, how does hiding the activity from your ISP, as well as the ISP of the person streaming from your server, work?

    I have friends I'd like to share my library with but am always nervous about the risk.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    Why would that matter? It just looks like HTTPS traffic if you set it up right. And even if they fingerprint it as Plex, they can't see what exactly is playing. Yes, my Plex library only has public domain content of course.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    With P2P file sharing, your client is sharing the files with random people on the internet and you're identified by your IP address (or a VPN IP address / seedbox IP address / etc). MPAA hires companies to check for popular content and log the IP address, time, and content shared, and then sends that to the ISP. The risk and issue is sharing content with anyone randomly, since that is how your ISP is informed of the activity.

    With media servers, unless you're somehow sharing publicly, it's safe to assume your members aren't going to report you to your ISP. I guess in theory the ISP could see high upload bandwidth and investigate, but more likely than not, if there are limits, automated systems will just throttle the bandwidth, and no deep packet inspection or other forensics is performed.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    Depends what industry you're in, I guess

    I'm in tech and there are more Plex guys than people looking for Plex guys

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    I am Plex Guy, my friend is Plex Guy, between the 2 of us we share our servers to over a dozen people. My mom and grandma use my server in another state, I don't charge anyone access. In total I have 8 users on my server, my friend has probably the same on his, with both of us giving access to a different friend meaning he has access to double the amount of content.

    I got absolutely fed up with subscription services raising prices and removing content (I only ever had Hulu and Netflix) so I just built my own service. My only subscription now is a Tidal family plan for myself, my wife and my mom.

    Also it's interesting how between these 2 servers, they're built differently. I built mine using TrueNAS and housed it in a dedicated PC case large enough for all the drives, my buddy made his as a Windows server, and has everything wall mounted with custom 3D printed brackets.

    Also, when I go to Brazil for vacation, my content isn't region locked, it's at home in a box on my living room that I just access with no VPN or any bullshit needed.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago

    I have a Plex server guy. He is one of my oldest and best friends although we don't get to hang out much anymore. I know he has other friends he shares the Plex server with but I have no idea who or how many. I've been using it since Plex was new, not sure how long exactly but more than a decade. I occasionally buy him nice hard drives because the library is ridiculously huge and always growing. As someone who loves weird and obscure shit, it's my favorite streaming service by far and he's my hero for running it.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    👋

    Most of us run systems for friends, family, even a few coworkers; but there are those out there that sell access to their systems to anyone willing to pay. This is explicitly forbidden by the TOS of Plex/Emby, and I'm pretty sure Jellyfin as well (haven't checked that one), but it still happens.

    There's even tools like Ombi to automatically manage requests from users passing them to Radarr/Sonarr to be retrieved.

    !selfhosted@lemmy.world

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I run an Emby server, but just for family. Two of my kids use it, one doesn't. I posted previously that my daughter doesn't have anything that can play a DVD, but she still gets them and I add them to my server so she can watch them.

    I added my parents to it, and they watched some stuff, but they can't remember how to use it. Every time I show them, my dad will watch things for a few days, then he forgets how.

    I appear to be unique among the people running streaming servers in that I only add things if I own the DVD (or if they're in the public domain). I also only have about 1300 movies.

    I visit thrift stores to get cheap DVDs. There's one near me that charges $1/DVD, but they have a 50% off sale on the last weekend of every month.

    I'm trying to be more particular about what I add. I had started thinking that for 50¢, I can buy a shittier movie, but now I'm only getting the movie if I know it's worth it, or if it's got > 7 IMDB rating.

    Today's haul included True Grit (the remake), Capote, and Ready Player One.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    I have a Plex guy. He runs a server and invites anyone he considers a friend, but also gives access to most who ask. He has a giant rig that costs him a lot in electricity bills. But he doesn't mind and doesn't want any money, because he's a sweet person and it's just something he does.

    Edit: I'm in Europe; also he always honors requests.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    I'm a Plex guy. I share my library because it's a bit of fun and scratches my IT interest itch. I actually run Plex and Jellyfin in parallel but pretty much everyone prefers the Plex interface (and most smart TVs have it ready to go, even the silly ones with off brand app stores).

    Mostly it's just an excuse to play with cool toys, and a reason to work out how to run things I wouldn't otherwise bother with.

    I've always downloaded stuff, since the dialup days. Originally it was for things that were region locked / "unrated" in Australia and thus not available... but now it's just so much more convenient than paid options that it's a no-brainer. Like I literally can't pay any legit service for the level of access and convenience I have now.

    It's not even about money anymore. Between the purchase price and power consumption of my dual Xeon rack server and JBOD, the 1000/400Mbps fibre connection, and the time I spend on it I'm paying enough to cover half a dozen subscriptions or so with change... But the convenience! I can watch anything, anywhere, on any device. No jumping between services to find stuff, no episodes/movies going missing, no login restrictions, no player that won't work because your HDMI cable is lacking a decimal place or whatever the hell they're doing now.

    Anytime someone we know in real life complains about having issues with their legitimate streaming service I offer access to Plex. I think there's 40ish users, but only a dozen or so that use it with any real frequency. Maybe 4-5 concurrent streams at peak times, outside of that is usually occasionally the work from home "workers" / the night shift people, or me streaming music at work or similar. I think the most I've had is 7 or 8 at once.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    I mean, Kaity and I run a Jellyfin server for our family to access, as well as a couple of friends. But that's about as public as it gets...

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    In a lot of countries, you could legally share copyrighted content to your "private and relative" circle. So it's not actually illegal. Your theory seems correct, even if we do have ftp-siblings too

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    I'm a plex guy and I know a bunch of other plex guys. There is dozens of us!

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    I'm a jellyfin guy. I share with roughly 6 friends just for fun.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    I am the Plex guy in my group of friends and family. I think there's probably a bit of confirmation bias at play. Being on Lemmy alone puts you into a niche area of Internet already, which is going to make hearing about geeky things like home labs more common.

    So yes, they exist.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    I just wanted to be able to watch my movies on the TV. And then…I have like a dozen users with only 1-3 accessing the server at any given time. Now it is something special. I seriously need to get a NAS.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    i love this post

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I've ditched all streaming services in favour of a friend's 40tb Plex server, running from the server room of the university where he works. It's rock solid and has everything I want to watch.

    Anything he can't find, or that I personally want my own access to goes in my own Jellyfin server.

    It's great. Better than spending £50 a month on a couple of services.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Sounds like a great way to get fired from a job. Mirror as much as you can from him while he still has it up, but also probably limit it so that the bandwidth doesn't raise any alarms.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    My ex is 'the guy' for mine and my sister hooked me up with her friend so now I have two of them. It's glorious like the old days of copying Netflix DVDs and buy-copy-resell at Hastings. I haven't paid for streaming in forever.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Me and a relative jointly host and manage a server. Over the years we've slowly allowed in a handful of trusted friends and family. By now we probably have 20ish connected. Most use it as a supplement to their main streaming services, primarily used for exclusive content like the star wars shows. Some, like those of us hosting, have cancelled every streaming service and use it exclusively.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Yes, there's even a subreddit dedicated to people advertising their Plex servers. Lots of them are paid, it's wild.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    There was a community when I first moved to Lemmy where people could advertise their Plex/Jellyfin servers that they were willing to share, either for a fee or free. No idea if it is still around or active.

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  • Dated a guy last year who had access to a giant plex library. He just told me a friend let him log in tob theirs. So ya, plex guys do exist.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    I'm that guy. I run my own plex server and administer one remotely for a freind.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    yes but usually at the family and friends distribution level

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I prefer the term “dude”, but yeah, if you’re not on one, you just don’t have the right friends. It does take a fair bit of work, but I don’t really mind sharing the fruits if I’m doing it for myself anyway.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I am a Plex guy and host Jellyfin along with other various services that aim to de-Google my family members and friends.

    I give out Plex access pretty readily and don't charge for it. Honestly, companies and governments are more focused on the "big fish" IPTV private providers than randos like us hosting media servers.

    Still working on de-Googling people...

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I am a Jellyfin server guy, and I Iet family and friends use it for free. I also am not shy about telling people that I do this, as I don't see any moral issue with it and will happily defend piracy as not only completely fine, but a net moral good. I see it as a tiny bit of anarchist calisthenics.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Why would people do that? People don’t do that.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    I run a Jellyfin server for anyone who has VPN access to my internal network.

    However, there’s “plex server” posters with QR codes on them on telephone poles in my area, that seem to have a subscription portal you have to go through to get an account.

    So there are definitely people attempting to make some money off of pirate plex servers.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Sounds like a solid theory. Most are probably Jellyfin servers, but "I have a Jellyfin Guy" doesn't have the same ring.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I would probably be this guy if I ever got around to doing the research into how to make my Jellyfin available over the internet safely.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    If you haven't heard of it, tailscale is great for this. You can create a VPN with all of your self hosted stuff for you to access from anywhere, plus you can share specific machines with other users.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm really trying to avoid using for-profit 3rd parties. CURRENTLY I could sign up as a free user and probably be fine. But Tailscale could wake up any day and decide to start charging, or put restrictions on the free tier that would force me to a paid tier.

    Part of the reason I bought a Blu-Ray drive, some big HDD's, and started collecting discs in the first place was to take back control from tech companies. It's why I chose Jellyfin over Plex. Going with Tailscale would defeat the principal.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I really need a better *arr setup. Mine keeps breaking with the VPN setup and indexers that don't find shit

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (10 children)

    Seems like a good way to implement massively distributed piracy. The comapnies can't possibly make a case against all of them, there are too many. I like it.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Why should they not be able to do that...? Even if there are 100'000?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (8 children)

    Well for starters, those 100k would be spread all over legal jurisdictions, like even different countries. So you would need a representative certified to practice law in each of those jurisdictions. And of course the laws are different, so each case would be different. And the people you are suing have relatively little money to pay in compensation. The number of people needed to pull that off would be so high that the cost would be drastically larger than the potential financial gains. And since the board of directors have a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders, they would have to put a stop to it. The shareholders care little for the long term potential gains of such an enormous expense.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (7 children)

    I think you massively underestimate how much money you can make with cease and desist cases. And how little it costs to send letters in bulk to people it could apply to.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    You can trick people into paying... but if you are talking people who pirate media, your sucess rate will be pretty low. Legally, cease and desist letters do nothing on thier own other than prove you notified them. Any free defense lawyer would argue that thier client didn't believe the sender had any right to make the request, and the send provided no legal proof. But again, even ifnthey could get say 100k from each person running one of these. It wouldn't pay they law firm bills, not even close. It would be a major expense.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    These are copy and paste letters, they take a few minutes per case top. You act as if once such letter costs more than a freaking murder case defense.

    What do you think happens when you get such a letter and argue like that? They just drop the ball?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    You don't have to respond to the letter at all. That's my point. It has virtually no meaning other then to allow them to say "I told you so" in court. And for that to have any meaning, they would have to show that you knew the letter came from the legit rights owner. Since the name is likely something none of us have actually heard of, you could argue you didn't think it was legit. But to even get to that point they have to file a suit and pay lawyers and all that. I can send you a cease and desist letter claiming the right to tell you to stop doing anything I want. It's just a scare tactic. Plenty of companies have been caught sending them when they had no legal right to make the demand. Most pirates know this, and will just ignore it.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    You do not have to respond to any invoice you get. And of course that tends to end up in court. What makes you think you could win the case? Just that perhaps they did not actually have the rights in the first place and thus it does not go any further than some letters? How often does that happen? 1 % of all such cases? Do you have the number?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    I'm not sure you are following my logic. For them to take every person who shares a plex server with people to court would cost an exorbitant amount of money. First they have to find them all, which is non-trivial. We are talking hundreds of thousands here. Then they have to get proof according to local laws. That already requires them to employ experts in each jurisdiction. Then they can send the letters, which have to be tailored based on the jurisdiction, which probably isn't much, but they have to be sure it is legal to even send it. Some places (though few) it will open them to being sued if not worded correctly. Then to take it to court they will need licensed lawyers in every jurisdiction. The cost would be crazy. And for the cases they win, they won't get much money because they aren't sueing companies, they are sueing people.
    It's not that a person would necessarily win in court, they may or may not. But the scale of the expense is soo much higher than the revenue as to make it a very bad financial undertaking.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    They just cooperate with whatever law firms there are locally and pay them in % of what they get, which also makes sure they are incentivized to get as much as possible to pay.

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  • The vast majority of lawyers don't work that way. They get paid as they go. The ones who do... aren't going after your average private person because they don't have enough money to be worth it. Even 100% probably wouldn't be enough in these cases. How much do you think they could win from Joe public per case?

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