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[–] 116 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Squatters do this shit every day to regular people and small businesses, but they don't have the money to convince a judge to hand over a domain.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    A squatter is why Valve used steampowered.com instead of steam.com. The owner of steam.com (who has owned the domain since the early 90s!) has consistently refused to sell to anyone, and has never stated a specific reason why.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I think Nintendo wanted to buy my domain ages ago, but pretended to be some little rando interested in a site.

    The MX server's IP address was Nintendo address space and a game they soon announced had the same initials as my domain.

    Probably could have made some money, but also glad I didn't sell.

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  • [–] 44 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I don’t have all the details to the case, but after reading the article I kinda think they got it wrong.

    Let that man call himself Lambo and keep the domain. As long as he isn’t pretending to represent another brand, such as Lamborghini.

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  • [–] 153 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (8 children)

    That's kinda how cybersquatting laws work.

    Someone registered an available domain hours after I searched for it when I received our trademark. The domain was immediately put up for sale. I spent almost a year getting my ducks in a row to sue and reclaim the domain (I even had screenshots of the availability. The scammer was watching registration queries) but they let the domain expire for lack of interest. I scooped it up after that.

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  • [–] 78 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Legit question: why didn't you take the domain before trademark was issued?

    If you already had the name registered (but not issued), couldn't you essentially cybersquat yourself and then buy it from yourself after it's been issued?

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  • [–] 89 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    We had no intention of making/hosting a website with the trademark. The company was in agreement.

    After we got it, the bossman comes to me and says "so we can make this email addresses now, right?"

    Like, duuude... It's not his expertise, I know, but he thought web pages and email was totally separate systems.

    Anyway, that was almost 25 years ago. All water under the bridge.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Sounds like you fucked up, tbh, you should've bought the domain even if not intending to use it, just for brand safety

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I couldn't agree more.

    I spent almost a year getting my ducks in a row to sue and reclaim the domain

    The cost in time and resources for all of that, vs just registering the domain in the first place. 🙄

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    We burned a lot of midnight oil on that company. It was a early data analytics type venture that was fun, but had a lot of long nights. We had an ethical spin from the ground up which, in hindsight, is not really the direction the Internet wanted to take.

    It was a great bunch of folks though. We keep in touch now and then.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Haha! Yeah we sure did.

    It was a small startup in, gosh, 1999-2000 when the net was a new frontier. Lessons were learned. It's since been acquired and folded into other businesses. The domain is still in my name with a very basic static page.

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  • [–] 81 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    What the judge should have done is threaten to cut the domain name in half and see who was willing to give up their claim out of motherly love.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    I wonder how much the city of LA would pay to get La.com back haha.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    The city of LA should not get a .com name. They might have a case that la.com should not have a .com either (they look like a tourist .org though if they are not acting like a .org they are scammers) - but this would be a very hard sell in court. The city of LA should have a .gov (which won't allow them) or .us (which is not organized well - something they should be mad about and pressure to get fixed) name.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Why a city would want a .com tld? A .gov tld would be far more applicable IMO

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  • [–] 37 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Both ends of this are frustrating. Buying a domain either as a purely speculative asset (as the judge correctly labeled this purchase as) so you can 1) get under someones skin enough to make them want to buy the domain from you, or 2) just buying up every popular or potentially popular domain just to sell if off is scummy behaviour that ideally this guy should never have been able to do in the first place.

    The other end of this I don’t like though is the possibility of somebody being able to convince a judge that they should own your domain and then just being able to take it. In this case I think the judge ruled correctly but the idea that somebody (especially in the US government) would be able to just take away my domain on a whim is terrifying when you can’t just go to people and say “hey, the person you are going to this domain for has now moved and is now here”. Things like e-mail address, monitoring, firewall exceptions and many self-hosted sites assume that the owner of the domain does not change hands without permission, and trust the domain blindly. Taking away a domain isn’t just like taking away somebodies nickname. It’s taking away their online identity and forced impersonation.

    I really wish there was a way to address each other in a decentralised way that doesn’t just push the problem down to something like a public key, where the same problem exists except now you worry about the key being compromised.

    The fact that we have ways to coordinate globally unique addresses that we collectively agree on who owns what is a feat. It just sucks that it’s also something which somebody can take away from you.

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  • [–] 32 points 11 months ago

    I recently took over as webmaster for a small local charity, basic website, some backend things to sort, no big deal.

    But they're on a .net and I asked why? A previous webmaster let their domain lapse 10 FUCKING YEARS AGO, and one of those squatters grabbed it and has been holding it ever since. They wanted like $10k to give it back so these people just made a .net

    It's fucking ridiculous. I set a timer to try and grab it next time it expires, but I'm assuming they have their renewals automated.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Another great example of this being an economic rent problem.

    Namecoin is one of the oldest cryptocurrencies, but never caught on because it's >99% domain name squatters. There's no mechanism to increase the cost of renewal to anything proportional to the value of the name, so they always renew for practically free. Consequently there's no incentive for web browsers to support it.

    A domain name is like a plot of land. Right now our choices are crony capitalist ICANN with eminent domain, anarcho-capitalist crypto DNS, or sailing the high seas on an .onion address.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I always love these shitty “replace the enter key on a keyboard” news thumbnails. Like, ah shit, accidentally hit the “Domain Name Registration” button on my keyboard.

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  • [–] 55 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    The court ruled that Blair lacked any right to the name and had only adopted the moniker after buying the domain.

    So he wasn't rich enough to buy the domain that he paid for ?

    Let A.I. have the internet. Humans are done using it.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago

    He only adopted the moniker after failing to get Lamborghini to pay the very high price he wanted for the domain. If he wanted the domain to adopt the moniker he wouldn't have tried to sell the domain in the first place.

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  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I don't get it. Since when are similar words and cultural references and nicknames too owned by the trademark owner?

    It was pretty normal for most of the age of trademarks' existence to use such derived references, including commercial use.

    "He tried to claim ... a word play on "lamb" and not ... " - why would he have to?

    I'm (ok, not really identifying as a fan of anything, but it's good) a Star Wars fan and I can point out plenty of such references there to other authors' creations, and George Lucas notably doesn't hide or deny that, actually the opposite.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    They are owned by the trademark when the person owning/using the name is acting like the trademark. Trademark law is generally based around would someone be confused if they say the other one. I could start a house construction business can call it Lamborghini without a problem so long as I was very clear in all advertising that I'm only building houses and not in any way related to the cars - but if I start putting Lamborghini cars in my advertising I could get into trouble for creating confusion even though my competitor Joe's houses has cars in his ads. (this is obviously a made up situation)

    From the article "didn’t develop the site, had attacked the company on more than one occasion, and tried to profit from its established reputation."

    If he had developed that site in what looked like good faith he would have kept it. However all indications were he didn't care about Lambo as anything other than a get rich quick scheme and that will fail to trademark since the name is only valuable if it is confused with the trademark. A parody site (obvious parody) would have been fine. Obvious star wars fan sites as welll (though this could infringe on other trademarks so care is needed). Even adopting Lambo as his nickname could have worked - but if that was his intent he wouldn't have tried to sell.

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  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago*

    so long as I was very clear in all advertising that I’m only building houses and not in any way related to the cars - but if I start putting Lamborghini cars in my advertising I could get into trouble for creating confusion

    That's fine. But suppose your brand is Lambozucchini and you have cars kinda similar to Lamborghini, but with the brand clearly different, just with homage, a bit like Pepsi-Cola and Coca-Cola, where in the world is the problem with that? That should be legal, from common sense.

    EDIT: Also nobody confuses Lambo with Lamborghini, a nickname is not confusion and trademark owner doesn't own nicknames. And they don't own everything in the world connected to their trademark.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Hrmm let's see.. am I petty enough today...

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  • [+] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago

    I don't really feel any sympathy for this guy.

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  • [–] 39 points 11 months ago (13 children)

    Not sure why others are defending the defendant here. He was just a cyber squatter who had no ties to the name Lambo until after he bought the domain. His only goal was to resell it to Lamborghini for a profit.

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  • [–] 56 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    I mean, if we are going to capitalism with a straight face we have to start being the whole bitch.

    He owned it, Lamborghini wanted it... that made it a valuable asset that he held that Lamborghini should have paid for

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  • [–] 46 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

    it's easy to see it that way when a big corporation is involved, but average people and small businesses get fucked by cybersquatters too.

    On balance I tend to side against the cybersquatters. They are not providing any value to anyone, just leeching dollars from the economy.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    We're not talking about an individual, we're talking about Lamborghini. I think cybersquatting Lamborghini is fine.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    You have to think one step beyond this specific instance. Laws apply to everyone consistently.

    So do you want to let cybersquatters fuck everyone just for the sake of fucking Lamborghini? Or is it better to get rid of these leeches who are providing no value to anyone but themselves?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    if we are going to capitalism

    Nobody is for capitalism, except as a derivative of classical liberalism. Capitalism might be useful as a tool in economics, but so is the "spherical cow" useful in physics - you can learn a lot but need to be careful as it doesn't apply to the real world.

    Since nobody is going full capitalist we can ask what liberalism things - and that is a branch of philosophy much more complex than just pure economics. In this case Lamborghini is entitled to their property, which we know is their property because the Lambo guy was acting like it was - in many other domain cases there is at least some doubt.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Not sure why anyone would defend a large corporation for any reason, ever.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    I will defend anyone when they are in the right, even if I otherwise hate them. I require proper due process for murders and other criminals who have done worse things that large corporations (most large corporations have committed murder - or at least not done it in a way that I can prove beyond any shadow of doubt)

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Don't have much sympathy for this person but no company has any more right to a domain name than any of us and this sets a scary precedence.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    The person who owns a trademark or copyright has a right to use that trademark and the onus to defend that trademark from other people using it. We used to allow anyone to call themselves anything they way, and it turned out badly.

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  • [+] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Yes, fuck poor people for trying to screw over corporations.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Eventually the precedent would just become 'poor people' fucking over everyone, including other 'poor people' just trying to start their own business. I get what you're saying but allowing squatters to create entire catalogues of domains for the sake of sticking it to corporations is probably a shitty answer

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    But where will we find young sheep passing under a bar videos?

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  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    That judge is a dumbass and any precedent that 'justifies' this ruling should be reviewed and struck down. This is called theft. And do eminent domain too while we're at it.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    A domain name is explicitly not property.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Cornell Law disagrees.

    Property is anything (items or attributes/tangible or intangible) that can be owned by a person or entity. Property is the most complete right to something; the owner can possess, use, transfer or dispose of it.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/property

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  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Why not? You can't hold it, but why should that be a limit?

    Note, phd's can easially be written on this subject defending either side. Some of those will say things like domains are not generally property, but for some situations we should treat them like property and in other situations not. I'm not expecting a response. I'm expecting everyone to think about the question.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    This isn't about an intangible thing being property. This is about the way domains are controlled. Nobody owns a domain, they register the right to use a domain. All domains are controlled and "owned" by ICANN, which allows registrars to handle who can use domains.

    They are not anyone's property.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    That is part of what a phd can argue about....

    I would argue that the registration cost is just a tax and you own it. But remember I'm arguing as a philosopher and not someone who can't see both sides or even thinks there needs to be one correct side.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Theft is when something you own is taken away. The squatter never owned the domain, only registered to use it. In this case, ICANN owns the domain and allows a registrar to handle who can use that domain. ICANN sets strict rules on how domains can be used, and the squatter broke those rules.

    Maybe the judge is a little smarter on actual laws than you are.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    Unpopular opinion, but the judge was right. There would be zero benefit to society to reward this absolute cybersquatter. There's an almost zero benefit to reward a corporation. Both bad, but the corporation should get it in this case.

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  • [–] 30 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    How is a cyber squatter worse than companies who squat on other things like money or diamonds.

    The man bought the domain and if lambo wants it, they can buy it from him.

    How long until other companies start trying to get any domain name that is part of their name now?

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 23 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Or the poor Italian guy Luca Armani, who registered armani.it in the early '90s for his rubber stamp shop.

    He tried to keep his name in a lawsuit carried by the most famous Armani, and he lost. He also lost all of his money and his shop.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    People are debating the little guy vs the big guy, but it's a problem when you name your company after yourself, and you share that name with a giant established brand. If you call your rubber stamp shop Armani, in Italy no less, you should expect confusion. Big companies don't like confusion, and will pay to avoid it.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Details matter. In this case the guy shouldn't have kept the name. On the one you mention the guy should have.

    Of course in both cases I am lacking full information. It may be biased sources are giving me incomplete information and if I had all the information I'd change my position.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I know the story of Luca Armani and I think it's sad. He even lost his health because of this.

    He should have just offered the Armani brand to pay him a good sum and that's it. Instead, he wanted to fight for his rights, and he ended up losing.

    (I honestly think that he was right, but the judge didn't know anything about technology and the internet)

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Because the domain name system is the tragedy of the commons. We all share it, and cybersquatters fucking it up for any of us fuck it up for all of us.

    Companies on the other hand, are just a fucking tragedy in general.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (5 children)

    This fucking thread 🤣

    Scary! Sets precedent🤦‍♂️!

    This shit has been going on for 25 years and complaining have been ripped away for this bullshit before.

    Nothing burger. Judge was right.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Always crazy seeing people lick the boots of huge corporations like this. Do you think they give you a Lamborghini for it?

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I don't care how much I hate someone, or otherwise how evil they are: when they are right I will support and cheer them. I can still oppose them in other ways, here they are in the right.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    It's not bootlicking, you weirdo. It's recognizing when one thing is right and one thing is wrong. Just because a company does something doesn't make it automatically wrong.

    I know it might be a crazy concept that is hard to grasp, but the world isn't totally black and white. It's almost like bad people can do good things sometimes. And good people can do bad things sometimes. Your way of thinking is exactly the way Republicans justify all the evil shit they do. They are religious, which makes them good people, and therefore everything they do is good. In your case, you think a corporation is bad and therefore everything they do is bad.

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