To me, someone who celebrates a bit more of the spectrum than most: Metal hot. Make food hot.

Non-stick means easier cleanup, but my wife seems to think cast-iron is necessary for certain things (searing a prime rib roast, for example.).

After I figure those out, then I gotta figure out gas vs. electric vs. induction vs infrared....

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[–] 53 points 11 months ago (1 child)

The reason cast iron is useful for searing a big cut of meat is that it has a reasonably high specific heat capacity (less than aluminum, more than copper, similar to steel) combined with considerably more mass than typical cookware made of other materials. It takes longer for the meat to cool the pan, so more heat transfers into the outer surface of the meat.

Cleanup of properly seasoned cast iron should be about as easy as non-stick pans because the seasoning (polymerized cooking oil) is, in fact a non-stick surface. Contrary to popular belief, it's fine to use soap on it, but aggressive abrasives can strip the seasoning. Fortunately, that's not hard to fix.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    This. A cast iron pan just stores so much more heat than anything else. IDK the sciency chef-talk but if you like meat to look crusty and golden on the outside but tender on the inside then this is the way.

    I basically just completely disregard any bullshit "seasoning" advice, and I've never had any rust or whatever. I don't scrub it with steel wool or whatever but I don't scrub anything with that. Sometimes I put a few cm of water in it and let that boil off any crusted on whatever.

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  • [–] 65 points 11 months ago (13 children)

    Induction gives you the speed and control of gas, without the exhaust gases. Induction is more efficient than infrared, because you're heating the pan directly. The cooktop only gets hot from the pan resting on it.

    Get induction, it's by far the best!

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    i also want to add that you should avoid ones with capacitive buttons. they suck, and imagine cleaning them...

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Also against the capacitive buttons my cat has accidentally turned on my stove so now I need to turn on the cleaning lock whenever I am done using it

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    same here, i just always make sure there's nothing metallic on the stove. it will just turn off after a while if my cats turn it on. don't understand why the controls can't be similar to the oven: knobs in the front panel that can be pushed in

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    Induction also requires specific pans, right? So a regular cast iron pot won't work?

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I have induction; anything magnetic will heat, pans sized to your elements work best. Pans with too much aluminum and not enough iron (or other ferro magnetic material) won't work very well. Getting induction was a great excuse to dump the cheap pans I'd wanted to replace anyway. When shopping the discount racks like Home Goods, Marshalls, etc. I always grabbed some fridge magnets and tried them on the bottom of any prospective purchase; the stronger the pull, the better it will perform with induction. The only item I really missed was my moka pot (stovetop espresso, usually all aluminum casting), but I was able to find one with a stainless steel base that works great. Your pots and pans will also need a flat bottom to react to the induction elements, so woks and such built with a slope or curve to encourage flames to lick up the sides don't work so well compared to gas. Finding a Teflon coated pan that works with induction was difficult (I don't often use it anyway, but SO insisted we have one for their use). I'm looking into replacing the Teflon pans with nitrided carbon steel soon.

    Cast Iron and induction are a match made in heaven though. The cast iron heats fast and evenly and the induction means you can be very precise about how much heat you apply and when. When you turn off the element, the only heat left in the whole system is what you've already put into the pan, which is a big deal in my tiny kitchen when I don't always have room to move a pan off to the side to rest or cool. The cast iron and stainless pans I have heat fast enough that I can basically cook starting from a cold pan for most things. Heating an empty pan takes seconds. I can bring a pot of a water of a couple quarts/liters to a roaring boil in about 4 minutes, then back down to a gentle simmer in seconds.

    If gas is cooking with fire, induction feels like cooking with science. As may be clear from the rant, I love my induction range.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Small note on induction.

    Since power setting works by turning the element off and on quickly, having a really thin pan with little thermal mass will result in some really weird uneven heating (basically just a hot circle).

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Two ignorant questions for you:

    Do you see any benefits to teflon over carbon steel?

    I've been using airbnb a bit and sometimes the tops are some form of electric (but I'm ignorant enough not to know what type of electric) and by far the most brittle part seems to be the touch buttons that many have. Do you have any pointers on shopping around for stovetops without issues with the buttons?

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Probably answered below:

    All will work with induction, except for cheap aluminum nonstick pans

    I thought it was more involved than that but after a quick search online I'm wrong

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  • [–] 115 points 11 months ago (20 children)

    Non-stick chemicals have been historically poisonous, don't know about the modern stuff though.

    Also, cooking with cast iron increases iron intake.

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  • [–] 37 points 11 months ago (12 children)

    Cheap "modern" stuff? Still toxic. Though there are plenty of coatings that are less toxic and more robust. Not to say any, including a seasoned cast iron pan, are abuse-proof. Use metal utensils on anything, and you will damage any coating.

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  • [–] 31 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    I use a metal spatula on my cast iron all the time.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    There’s no [edit: manufactured, not easily replaced] coating on cast iron (unless enameled)

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Yes there is, it is polymerized fats and oils that build up over time.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I've got a super thin metal spatula, with the perfect amount of flexibility, and I've been carrying it with me from place to place for decades. It is absolutely my favorite kitchen utensil. I know it didn't cost much, but I've never found another one as perfect for my needs, so it is priceless to me.

    I use it on everything, even when it says no metal utensils. I'm just really careful with it. I love the thinness of it, and how it slips right under the edge of anything. Trying to catch the edge of an omelette with a thick plastic spatula is infuriating.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Yeah, PFAS or forever chemicals like Teflon are not all equal. The bigger "fluffier" molecules can pass through the body way easier than the smaller ones.

    If people are in the US they should check their drinking water first since that's the majority of PFAS that stay in the body weirdly enough.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Non-stick is teflon. Not harmful unless you burn it (at over 300°C).

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  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Not sure why you are down voted, you are right. Teflon molecules are really long chains, your body doesn't interact or store it, you just shit it out as it entered. The issue is the molecules used in it's production, that are dumped in rivers and end up everywhere.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Yea, and if you burn them they break down into shorter molecules that accumulate in the liver or something.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    Would be surprised how many people used scratched Teflon pans. I watched one friend of mine put the empty non-stick pan with no oil or anything on maximum heat to "pre heat the pan" before adding oil. Very sketchy.

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    [–] 26 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Stainless steel can be plenty nonstick but you have to get it good and hot. Seasoned cast iron is a little more forgiving, but heavy. Carbon steel may be the best of both world because it's similar in weight to stainless, but takes a season, but I don't have enough experience with it yet to say for sure.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I use my cast iron for non stick operations and my stainless for fond sauces and acidic dishes.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Next time with stainless try this: bring a little oil to smoke point, wipe the pan dry, back on the heat. Then add cold oil and your food. It's pretty nonstick, but it only lasts for one use.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I bet this works nominally better, but I just heat the pan with oil. I can't be arsed to wipe screaming hot oil out of a pan only to reintroduce new cold oil and have to contemplate whether it could possibly make a difference and either feeling like an idiot for blindly following such an absurd direction, or like an idiot for not understanding the scientific grounds for which it works.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Under certain conditions, thin layers of oil polymerize and bond to a surface. It's the same mechanism as cast iron, but smooth stainless steel holds onto the coating more tenuously than cast iron.

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  • [–] 25 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    I got started when I inherited my grandmothers Le Creuset dutch oven. She purchased it in the 1950s and it's still going strong...

    Then I found they had an outlet store near me...

    Non-Stick, no matter what brand, will need to be replaced every 3-5 years. So, yes, enameled cast iron is more expensive, but when you compare 1 set of cast iron to 15 to 25 sets of non-stick... yeah...

    Cast iron also retains heat better than non-stick, carbon or stainless steel, aluminum or copper.

    But it is HEAVY AS SHIT. You aren't hand flipping pancakes in cast iron.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago* (4 children)

    can't handflip pancakes with cast iron

    yeah dawg I'll be real here, that's a skill issue. do some weights, and wrist exercises, and then you too can hand flip pancakes in a pan like this:

    (imperial measuring tape for scale)

    I've used cast iron for about 15 years now, and flipping pancakes in this thing is downright easy these days. (yes I know my kitchen is a bit dirty, I literally just made dinner, and am posting on Lemmy as I eat)

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I cheat and use an æbleskiver pan. 😜 No flipping required, you just rotate them with a skewer.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/pCQCW5NS2jg

    Danger is in eating too many without realizing it. LOL.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    hahahahahaha that is true! I've got canadian maple syrup, duty free from some family in CA, and booooooy do those flapjacks taste GOOD with butter and syrup.

    æbleskiver look astoundingly similar to another dish - takoyaki; as well!

    ~~......dangit now i've got a hankering for takoyaki, and the only good place is an hour away, and also closed for the night. ~~

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    [–] 69 points 11 months ago* (5 children)

    It lasts forever, you wont scrape whatever "non-stick coating" they use off. If you want a pan that will outlive your grandchildren and is permanently non-stick once it's seasoned, for most things a cast iron is perfect. If you have that, some pots of various sizes, and a wok, youre set.

    I prefer induction or infrared stovetop. We dont need to burn more gas.

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  • [–] 49 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Imo, the main advantage to cast iron vs literally everything else is how you can abuse it as long as the one rule you follow is to clean it after use.

    Teflon and other nonstick coatings are too easily damaged by things like scrubbing pads or metal utensils.

    Cast iron don't give a single fuck.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I picked up a cheap cast iron frying pan a couple of years ago, having finally gotten sick of paying £50 every couple of years for a decent non-stick pan.

    That cast iron pan still looks basically new. I don't do anything particularly exciting with it, I just use it, then I wash it with whatever scouring sponge I have. Best £12 I've spent on something for my kitchen.

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  • [–] 26 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    You can absolutely scrape the seasoning off a cast iron pan through aggressive use of metal utensils, but you can also re-season it by applying a little cooking oil and getting it hot for an hour or so.

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  • [–] 23 points 11 months ago (16 children)

    This is a HUGE "Yes, but."

    Entering adulthood, I got cheap run of the mill non stick pans, they work until they dont.

    Then we tried cast iron. Gotta oil it, cure it, and don't use soap to wash it. Some extra work, but it worked great.

    Now, I'm rocking stainless steel. Less work than the cast iron, but you need to preheat the pan before you put anything in it. If you do this, it's just as nonstick as the others, and it's a lot lighter and easier than the iron, and I think they are less expensive than cast iron, but I haven't compared in a very long time.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (14 children)

    FYI, you can wash cast iron with soap.

    Not using soap is a hold over from when soaps were more caustic (e.g. lye soap).

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    FYI, you can wash cast iron with soap.

    Only if you re-season it afterwards. Otherwise it starts to rust because the seasoning is what protects it from oxidation

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Really not. See the lye comments.

    I generally wash with dish soap and a chainmail scrubber, then dry with a paper towel. If I remember I might spread a tiny amount of oil.

    Yeah I could do better but the point is I’ve done almost nothing to care for them in years.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Pure iron oxidizes without the high carbon content to make it stainless and will absolutely rust if you don't at least oil it after washing with soap, but seasoning it properly definitely makes a difference in how it cooks.

    I own 4 different size/shape cast iron and I speak from experience. Any decent dish soap will still strip the oils that are acting as a barrier to the open air and oxidation, doesn't have to be lye-based

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago*

    Cast iron is extremely forgiving of improper treatment. And even if it eventually rusts, you can fix it. I’ve been using cast iron as my primary skillets since pandemic. I know I don’t treat them like I should, but they’re not yet rusted, still have an easy to clean surface that food doesn’t stick to. I’ll probably have to reseason eventually but if that’s not until I’d normally have to replace non-stick, I’m way ahead without putting in any extra work

    Edit: sure, standard three cast iron skillets, and cast iron Dutch oven. I also have a set of stainless pans, and some induction ready non-stick for company

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    It only oxidizes when water can reach the iron. If you have a good seasoning on it, mild dish soap can't lift it off, and water can't reach the iron.

    Making sure it's completely dry (I dry mine with heat on the stove) and adding a thin layer of oil is a good idea too. There are often parts of the pan that aren't well seasoned. On mine, it's the part that touches the stove that's most likely to rust.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    If your seasoning rinses off with mild soap and water, you might want to try some different seasoning methods. That might mean using a different oil, different temperature, longer heat time for the seasoning, etc. Or you might want to season it with thinner layers of oil multiple times in a row.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Thanks for the tip. I saw many people saying both sides, so I figured I'd just avoid soap and not find out for myself.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    If you wash your cast iron with eg Dawn dish soap, you can definitely clean it down to bare metal and it will rust. I usually will clean the cast iron pan last and use the sponge that just has a small amount of soap left in it. Just watch it as you clean, if the shiny hard coating seems to be going away, rinse out the soap and make something greasy next time you use the pan to replenish it.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago

    If you have a good seasoning, it won't wash off. "Seasoning" is the process of polymerizing oil. That hardens the oil and binds it to the surface. You're more likely to burn the seasoning off or to scratch the seasoning and have it flake off than take it off with dish soap.

    Whether you use soap or not, dry it on the stove and give it a light coat of oil after you clean it.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Thank you for helping to dispel this myth. It is truly disgusting the state that some people leave their cast iron pans in, the fact that people eat the food from them after not having washed it for years is terrifying.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    The pans regularly get above boiling temperatures. They're sterile

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Yea that's the part that keeps me from cast iron.

    Not being able to wash it normally just sounds weird and nasty to me.

    And two the whole having to season your pan... God damn I've got a million things to worry about and barely time to make food, I don't have time to be giving a hot oil massage to my pans....

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I like carbon steel, mainly for two reasons

    1. Heats up insanely fast
    2. Super easy to clean
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    [–] 19 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Metal hot. Makes food hot. Yes.

    But!!

    Cold food makes hot pan cold.

    Cast iron has a lot of thermal mass, so when you put a cold piece of meat on it it doesn't immediately get cold and stop cooking for a bit. Thin pans without it don't keep hot, hot so they don't sear long enough and you don't get the maillard reaction and the tasty brown crust.

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago*

    Depends on what you're doing. Yes, it's better for most things where you'll need to sear.

    Carbon steel frying pans good as well.

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago

    Alternative to cast iron: carbon steel.

    Same seasoning process, better heat conduction, lighter, cheaper.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago

    For me, cast iron are by far my most used pans. You know how flannel starts out sort of awful but gets better and better as it gets older? That's cast iron. Starts out sticky PITA but over time becomes satisfying satiny nonstick surface. I've always used them a lot so that's how my cooking style evolved.

    We also have one steel pan we call the Stick pan, sometimes you want food to stick so you can deglaze. My kids use it for potsticker dumplings, and they like it also because it's lighter, cast iron is heavy. And of course a rice and pasta pot, those are steel.

    I don't buy "nonstick" pans, they don't last and I'm not convinced they are safe.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Metal hot. Make food hot.

    Think a bit deeper. How quickly is that heat transferred, and at what peak temperatures? Does the metal keep any heat of its own and impart that into the food, or does it just convey the heat from the burner to the food? And how quickly does it do that?

    but my wife seems to think cast-iron is necessary for certain things (searing a prime rib roast, for example.).

    Look at the thermal mechanics of this.

    Take the cast iron pot. You can throw that on the stove and let it get ripping hot, like the metal itself is carrying a ton of heat energy. When you put the prime rib in it, the metal dumps its heat into the meat much faster than a flame alone would. This helps you get a strong sear on the outside, without dumping in too much total quantity of heat to cook the meat on the inside more than you want.


    then I gotta figure out gas vs. electric vs. induction vs infrared…

    Heat can be transferred 3 ways- conduction (flows between two touching objects), convection (hot object heats air, air blows against cold object, air heats cold object) and radiation (hot object radiates energy through space and it warms cold object).

    Electric- coils get hot, the pan touching the coils transfers heat by conduction. Downside is uneven heating- neither the pan nor the coils is perfectly flat so you get hot spots.

    Infrared- coils under the glass get hot and radiate heat through the glass. This works pretty well.

    Induction- coils under the glass but they don't get hot. Instead they create a magnetic field modulated at low radio frequencies (15-150 KHz). This fluctuating magnetic field interacts with any ferrous metal close to it, creating small but powerful eddy currents inside the metal and thus heating the metal up. So the stove doesn't create any heat at all, it's the pan that actually gets hot. This by the way is neither conduction convection nor radiation, because heat isn't being transferred, it's created inside the pot.

    Gas- flammable gas (usually propane or natural gas, which is mostly methane) burns creating high temperature exhaust gases that rise against the pot and thus heat the pot. Many chefs like this. Gas stoves should ideally be used with an overhead hood as gas stoves have been proven to drastically reduce indoor air quality.

    Of the options- induction is usually the best these days, because it's the most efficient, cleanest, and also in many cases has the highest output (in terms of watts of heat pumped into the pot).

    When cooking, you want a stove capable of very high output. The more output you have, the faster it will boil water for example.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    All technically true & correct.

    I'll add that cast iron consistently works better for longer: My ceramic or PTFE pots start great, but after a while become so terrible they're useless in spite of silicone spatulas etc. I cook almost daily, so I found the new tech pans fully degraded within a year or less.

    Cast iron, I've car camped and daily stove topped, no problem. I season it once every couple of years, works great.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    This is true.

    My partner and I are currently having a laugh because a couple years back I bought a fancy expensive set of ceramic coated pans. Best ones on offer in the store at the time. Coating applied with plasma vapor at 40,000°F or some such nonsense, hard as diamond, good for use with metal utensils, coating guaranteed for life, yada yada. Good brand too (Calphalon). I said the tech on these is amazing and the coating has insane hardness and it will last forever. Partner laughed and said I fell for marketing BS, all non stick pans degrade.

    Guess what happened? The nonstick ceramic coating started rubbing off in some places. I'm quite annoyed. Partner laughs at me.

    Meanwhile go on YouTube and there's videos of people restoring cast iron skillets from the 1800s to like-new condition.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    😬 damn, sorry homie. I guess if it's lifetime warranted, resell the replacements?

    Not particularly relevant, but it'll help you see through marketing dreck no matter how it evolves: Plasma arcs can go that high in temp, but has no effect on what makes something "hard" or "soft": interatomic bond strength. I'm certain you know this, but carbon (as in the diamond) holds hands really strongly with other carbon, more strongly than iron to iron as in a steel spatula.

    In theory, an actual diamond surface (not sprayed on, but grown) would be impervious to steel implements. But in reality, making a fully uniform diamond coating is extremely difficult, and thus tear-jerkingly expensive.

    Spraying chunks of diamond onto a surface as the mfgr has done really means there's a thin sticky coating on the pan before they start, so that these hot pieces of diamond partly melt into it and are "glued". Safe bet that later is PTFE. That means when your pan is hot on the stove, the layer softens and you wind up eating little bits of diamond with each meal. One day, food sticks, as you'll have found a spot missing too many diamonds, it's just the substrate with a bunch of tiny holes to make food stick even worse than a smooth plastic surface.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago

    Teflon and certain ceramic non-stick pans can't handle the heat needed to sear a steak. You can look up the heat range of your pans, but generally if it isn't cast iron or steel, it's going to warp or degrade the coating. That means they won't last as long.

    On the other hand I've never had to toss a cast iron pan. Sometimes I've needed to scrape off seasoning and redo it, and it's rare to ruin a cast iron pan to the point it can't be redeemed. But I've just bought my first carbon steel wok because it's much lighter than cast iron

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Non-stick has to be cleaned by hand, whereas stainless steel can go in the dishwasher, so for me that's easier to cleanup.

    Non-stick has Teflon on top, which shouldn't be heated above a certain temperature, and to sear steak you need to leave the pan in the stove for long without anything on it so it gets extremely hot (which would damage the Teflon coating of non-stick and release poisonous gases on your kitchen, not enough to kill you, but still can't be healthy).

    So, in short, stainless steel is a good middle ground, easier to clean and maintain than non-stick and cast iron.

    As for gas/electric/induction it's about efficiency, induction heats the bottom of the pan, electric heats the glass where the pan is resting, and gas heats everything. There's a video from a YouTuber that measures time for a pot of water to get to 100° in all 3 (I don't remember who, I thought it was technology connections but can't find it), and in short induction is the fastest, electric takes a while longer, and gas melted his thermometer before the water boiled (which shows you just how much heat you're putting in a place that's not the pan).

    That being said there's certain stuff that is easier to do on gas stoves, possible on electric and impossible on induction. Namely anything that requires the pan to be heated at an angle. It's very niche, I would say most people wouldn't even notice or care about this limitation, but professional chefs sometimes prefer gas because it allows to be used like this.

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  • [+] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    I'm thinking about a wok. That surely couldn't work with induction. Or does it?

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    It does, I have an induction wok that I used in my previous apartment that had an induction stove. That being said it does have a flatter base than a "real" wok, but most woks you will use on your kitchen also have flat bottoms anyways. But yeah, you can't use it the same way, so if you mainly cook with woks it might be an issue, for me it wasn't.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    I have Lodge cast-iron skillets, Le Creuset and Staub ceramic-coated cast-iron dutch ovens, Le Creuset stainless saucepans, and one non-stick frying pan (which I bought for my wife).

    I use the skillets for pretty much everything that isn't going to be simmered in tomato. Had them for years and they are non-stick. I happily fry eggs in them with no worries whatsoever.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    I bought an carbon steel pan about 5 years ago, best pan ever! Highly recommend 😊

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