Even if that did happen, it wouldn't defeat the point of the disclosures at all. In fact, people will appreciate it all the more if a game is made without any AI involvement and it will become a selling point.
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I'm glad that Tim Sweeny and its Epig Games Store is not the market leader.
lol I just found my 7 year old post on Reddit (when Reddit was cool) of a Epig Games logo creation: https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckepic/comments/bvw5ru/epig_games/

If most games will contain AI content, then an "AI-free" badge couldn't be more important. He must understand that that statement is a complete logical fallacy, right?
It's Tim Sweeney, he doesn't understand where the sun goes at night.
Except every tool used for development is going to have some level of AI in it and unless you are also building your own AI free tool you aren't going to know what's truly AI free. AI is here and the cat's out of the bag. There is no putting it back in at this point. We as a society need to figure out how to use it ethically.
We as a society need to figure out how to use it ethically.
We can't even restrain ourselves on the usage of weapons, the extraction of natural resources, the usage of energy, consumerism, or cars. The way our societies are working will not give much chance to ethics.
What I consider sad is that we are really getting no option to run it locally. It's an excuse to turn everything into a live service where not even a subscription saves you because you can run out of "tokens" now. I have absolutely no issue with OSS tools incorporating LocalLLM aids. If people have modern GPUs then they can use local LLMs in some form or another.
LLMs are actually just massively improved spell checks. If you've used an IDE with in line error detection, technically that's AI now.
I do wish we've drawn the line more clearly on what "AI" usage means in terms of "this game was made with AI"
Every single time I think about what LLM are I think about this quote from the game Night in the Woods:
“We're good at drawing lines through the spaces between stars like we're pattern-finders, and we'll find patterns and we like really put our hearts and minds into it and even if we don't mean to.”
LLMs are based on neural networks. They are little brains that have nothing else to deal with than finding patterns in our own logic and can seem to be smarter than what they really are because of it. Evolution has not weighted them with an ego or urgency, but because it has been trained on ours it can sometimes emulate it. But it fundamentally lacks the complexity of our brains, at least for now. It is still amazing what they can do given so little, and it is amazing how convincing they can be with their answers when they are completely wrong. It is a viral form of intelligence.
As if down voting me is going to make the AI problem go away. Lemmy baffles me. People on here are the most pro FOSS but luddites at the same time when it comes to AI.
There is no going back from anyone this. We are gonna have to figure out how to live with the consequences of AI. We should be making a lot more noise about AI to law makers. It's coming for all of our jobs now matter what sector you work in. At some point people are going to have to accept it and make the best of it.
We're seeing the rise of push back against AI gen stuff... https://www.theverge.com/entertainment/827650/indie-developers-gen-ai-nexon-arc-raiders
Doubling down on the glazing of the ai bubble is pretty on brand for him. In before "tim sues steam for spurious claims against ai" or some other bullshit.
Sidenote: IsThereAnyDeal.com has the steam ai declarations as part of the quick reference section on game pages now. https://mastodon.social/@isthereanydeal/115606686918493913
If it's available in "nearly all" development then you can switch the tag to say "no AI" and then I can continue discovering and buying games that don't have that BS.
But we all know, as does Sweeney, that that's a lie. And also that I wouldn't shop for games on Epic Store anyway, for reasons just like this.
Tim continues to not 'read the room'
Then put the disclaimer in all games? So what, not like they're limited quantity
Yes, like we don't have Handmade tags in products...
I dont know about the future, but a "No AI-Art" tag, makes sense to me.
I have seen handmade tags, for stuff that wasn't machine loomed, etc. But handmade clothing is mostly dead in the consumer world, unless you class mass production methods as handmade.. Which they are made by hands in some stage
Handmade clothes may be not the norm but they are not extinct. Dresses, scarfs and accesorising can be found handmade. Luxury market is in majority handmade.
The point is that the label is not pointless. It exist and will exist in the future. I just hope that games with human art won't be considered a luxury.
yea that's just playing on semantics. Of course machine learning will keep assisting many different workflows, thank you Tim.
Go ahead with your ML-assisted procedural animations, your ML-enhanced denoising, your ML-powered stochastic mesh pruning.
What people don't want is generated visuals/music that try and pass off as art. I'd love to summon debility to explain that the ruling class doesn't get it, but they do -it's a convenient way for them to save on human labor that is also... just too tempting to use for replacing art as well.
"it's a convenient way for them to-" insert: exploit all culture, our past and present artists, writers, musicians, etc. . . The offense is utterly incomprehensible. Its like the billion dollar relativity thingy, where you just can't get over the relative size of the comparison to $100,000. The amount of data stolen from past and current IP is too much for the layman to ever consider. It's the heist of the epoch.
AI generated visuals and music are one thing, but one use of AI in that category is giving NPCs actually interesting things to say.
Currently, without AI, they have one or two lines about the weather, or the general state of affairs, but if you can pass an LLM the current state of the world and the player's recent actions, then run the output through a tts model tuned to a distinct voice to, you'd be making the world feel way deeper than it is now with much more insightful interactions. You could maybe go even further and add infinite mini-quests in a similar manner, but it's better to start off small.
AI doesn't have to replace, and the best studios will use it to enhance and add to their art, the average ones will avoid it, and the worst ones will use it to replace art.
And who's going to be powering that NPC's LLM model? Unless all you want is a free hotlinked chatbot window disguised as a character? Because the publishers and developers sure as hell won't power it on their end and if they do you'll be paying out the ass for it. Otherwise that LLM for an NPC will have to run locally on your own hardware....in addition to the game itself.
So yeah, have fun with that.
And dialogue generation is ALL they can do btw. They can't navigate a character around a 3d environment or even play against you in a grand strategy game. So, looking at RAM and GPU prices... yeah the novelty of LLM in games will run it's course pretty quick.
It'd be a small model run locally, taking up maybe half a GB of VRAM
In theory they could offer the ability in the settings to use the NPU if one is available.
Basically the same situation as it was with Raytracing.
Sugars and additives are in nearly all foods, maybe we should stop asking manufacturers to disclose it on the ingredients list.
Waste of ink really
Tim: Valve doesn't understand the market. AI is going to lead gaming industry.
Also Tim: VALVE IS A MONOPOLY AND SHOULD SEIZE TO EXIST.
Tim can suck my sweaty balls.
It being ubiquitous does not mean it makes no sense. They can still say how and to what extent gen AI was used.
And people wonder why Epic games has the smallest market share of all the game stores
Yeah, I can't imagine why people aren't flocking to the Epic Store. Must be Valves fault.
Tim Sweeny doesn't understand the very people he wants to have give him money. Like, at all.
And CEOs will be the easiest position to replace with AI. Can't wait for the share holders to figure that out.
Then some clueless person complains that Steam dominates the market. When Epic is constantly shooting their foot.
People like to make informed decisions and those labels help. In proper countries even beer have content labels to say if there is rice or corn with the barley.
One can be concerned by a monopoly even when there are no bad actors. Google used to be good before it was evil, and Gabe Newell will die eventually. Consolidation of market power (Audible for audiobooks, for instance, or Steam for video games) is not ideal. It is a shame Epic is such a piece of shit.
nahh men. This is why you (Epic) are giving away games every week for free. Nobody likes you
"Crypto/NFT disclosures make no sense, because all games will become "Play to Earn" and have NFT objects where you can transfer your Mario hat to COD 2028."
I am being glib, Sweeney probably has a point, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take a critical look at his intentions.
What are his intentions?
Wannabe American oligarch.
The things he allegedly argues against (Apple/Google app store restrictions) is what he would implement (word for word copy/paste arguments) if he was in their position.
Typical corrupt scum.
Using AI to maximize his profits without people criticizing him for it.
This is why Epic is losing lol
No, it fucking won't, Tim Sweeney. Go jump off the OG Fortnite BR map so I can default dance on you while you get sent back to the lobby.

Using AI for checking a code, and then double checking it yourself is different than some waste of sperm dictating prompts to AI, and telling his friends at parties while high on ketamine adderol and coke "this is going to be the next Morrowind x Cyberpunk x Mario Brother Kart Theft Auto" is the AI badge Valve is talking about.
Depends on how it's used.
Right now it's used to replace skilled workers, be them artists, actors, or programmers.
I can certainly think of a few good uses for AI in games, but to a Corpo CEO "good use" = wider profit margins at the cost of humanity. And so we need to be informed about such things when we spend money on something that is by all rights an artform.
The problem is that the very capabilities that let a game have "way more of something than it could otherwise have" (say, thousands of unique voices reading context-specific runtime generated text) can be used to reduce the need for workers (so one can just pretty much generate all speech in game by paying a bunch of random people of the street for to come over and read text for 1h and then just clone their voices and used that to generate all in-game speech - the quality way less than pre-prepared lines read by a trained voice actor, but the cost will be a tiny fraction of it).
AI can helps us do things which in practice would otherwise be impossible but many (maybe most) companies are just using it to cut manpower costs even though it delivers inferior results than than trained professionals.
I've said this before that typically people don't know what they are talking about AI, but I don't expect this from people who SHOULD know what AI is.
There could be technologies that AI can assist with, hell I'm not a game dev but I assume even back in the day, devs used tricks and technologies that today could be considered as AI
However AI as in it will write you code, generate you a game and write you a story? Hell no.
Yes, nuance is important
but
I'd argue that demanding the customer seller fill out a 20 page form on what the AI was used for (and additionally which model) would result in the opposite sentiment for the seller and customer.
Theres a line between too little and too much information.
As a CEO you can decide whether to piss off on what your potential consumers demand and don't. Obviously, there's a reason why the EGS is in the shitty place it is and Steam isn't. EGS focuses on developers and publishers even when it means pissing on consumers. Steam might have spearled modern DRM "subscription"-based marketplaces, but they've also continued to cater to consumer demands even when it opposed their interests and they could have chosen to ignore them anyway.
Lucky for them, I won't buy any new games. Too many fantastic older games to play that they didn't cheat and cut corners to produce.
Yes but we all know that Tim is a bit of an idiot.
We've all seen AI made games, they are awful. Terrible optimisation (often not optimised at all), programming mistakes that first year junior wouldn't make, glitchy looking art and basic gameplay because AI cannot be original.
Yeah I'm sure they're really going to take off.
And they'll become cheaper as they undoubtedly sack their talent, right?
I think if I buy a game under the pretext of it being entirely "man-made", in 2026. If it then turns out to have been partially AI produced in 2030, I should have the right to earn a refund, even if I 100% it.

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