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[–] 3 points 1 year ago
42 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
[–] 111 points 1 year ago (13 children)

If we have the will to fight this every 5 minutes, we should have the will to make it so we don't keep having to. Winning the same battle over and over isn't victory; it's just giving the enemy more time and opportunity to define the terms of your defeat.

This is getting comically ridiculous and I'm tired, but I suppose that's the point.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (12 children)
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    A law banning the entire attempt to even crate such laws.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I suggest something more physical.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    perhaps a certain french invention

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Switch to mesh networks could be an idea. It is not that difficult to send messages with bluetooth, problem is adoption: a system like that works only if there are many people using it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And THIS is the problem. How long is PGP / GPG around? I have vivid (and fond) memories of a time in the early 00s when we did encryption parties inviting normal people to help them install GPG and teach them how to encrypt their emails. And people came to these events! We had an event in a community centre where we did over 200 installs on laptops of "average Joes / Janes" in a single day.

    But somehow, interest in private communication fizzled out over the last decade or so.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    On the other hand, we live in a golden age of private, end-to-end encrypted communications tools. There are literally too many to list here. The problem is our end-points are extremely vulnerable to surveillance now.

    Also, the PGP web of trust was a pretty terrible idea for anyone concerned about authoritarian governments. Especially "key parties" that network based on government IDs. They also barely worked in practice anyway. Web-key discovery actually has decent UX, despite being tied to a purchased domain rather than a drivers license. It works fine for people you don't know, but know by their domain. For people you know, exchanging keys via QR code or verifying keys via some hash out of band has become standard.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I would be terrified of using a bluetooth mesh network in a situation where private, encrypted communications are illegal. That would be literally walking around transmitting your intent. It's a great idea in a free country though.

    In a dystopia, you want to blend in. Something like deltachat has the right idea there - you have to look like boring email on the network. Maybe even layer on stenography -sending boring emails with cat pictures, but your messages are hidden inside them.

    Honestly, I would probably go with sneakernet. A microsd card can be hidden very easily, are difficult to detect electronically, transport virtually unlimited text, and be encrypted in-case the mule gets caught to prevent networks being exposed. The latency is just a necessary evil.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I would be terrified of using a bluetooth mesh network in a situation where private, encrypted communications are illegal. That would be literally walking around transmitting your intent. It’s a great idea in a free country though.

    You have a point but that would means that the only other solution is to fall back to personal comunications, every electronic channel is unusable in such situation.

    In a dystopia, you want to blend in.

    Or you can simply have so much irrelevant data that the few important bits are lost in a sea of randomness if you don't know where to look.

    Something like deltachat has the right idea there - you have to look like boring email on the network. Maybe even layer on stenography -sending boring emails with cat pictures, but your messages are hidden inside them.

    The main point of using bluetooth is to not rely on a centralized server that can be compromised and/or shut down.
    If you still use email as transportation layer you could just write an app that really has e2ee, plausible deniability or any other feature you want since in the end you are relying on the same centralized infrastructure.

    Honestly, I would probably go with sneakernet. A microsd card can be hidden very easily, are difficult to detect electronically, transport virtually unlimited text, and be encrypted in-case the mule gets caught to prevent networks being exposed. The latency is just a necessary evil.

    The latency is not the problem, it is already known that to move large quantities of data the fastest method is to send an hard drive (or whatever else).
    The real problem here is where the mule can go.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And coming soon, Chat Control 3: It Was Never About The Children

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Oh, it is. Whoever masters Chat Control, gets to decide whom they can blackmail and rendezvous. Especially the underaged.

    Police and triple-letter agencies abuse information all the time to stalk their lovers or to get ahead in life. I bet this will be more of the same.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Hey, anyone care to explain what the fuck is wrong with Denmark?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    It's sort of funny they have the reputation as one of the least corrupt countries in the world. It's funny because when you say that something is incapable of being vulnerable in some way, that means at the very least that they are fertile grounds waiting to invite it.

    The public does not consider corruption a major problem in Danish society means those that are corrupt can get away with more because of less supervision. The OCDE has serious concerns about the lack of enforcement of bribery paid by Danish companies abroad and the Danske Bank money laundering scandal, which was the largest money laundering scandal ever in Europe and possibly the largest in world (at least until the Trump era), involved - you guessed it - Russian (among other USSR remnants) money laundering. Denmark will do what is good for Denmark, but Denmark is not the EU.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Dunno, my perception of Nordic countries has always been that they have (of course, they're human) corruption, they have organized crime and they have all kinds of social rot, but they also have no reservations in admitting having those or barriers at discussing and trying to help those, which was the reason for nicer things in their societies. Though inside that perception Denmark has always been the worst.

    Still, it's all dynamics, and of course thinking you're set causes failures.

    Russian money laundering is honestly not as big a problem as the degree of penetration of Russian state secret agents, which both inside Russia and outside is beyond what you'd reasonably expect. If you think a 13 years old girl can't be an agent, you're wrong. If you think such agents can't be a common enough thing, you're wrong. If you think it's limited to Russian/ex-USSR nationals and their relatives, you're wrong.

    And that's the state of affairs during late USSR, these services haven't become less professional, the world since then was changing fast enough to sharpen them, but also in ways where they always had the resources to survive hardship and learn.

    I don't know what the supreme goals of what one can call Russia's deep state are, and whether I would consider them something good or bad, but I'm sure western reactions to their actions are all 10-20 years late.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Denmark's social democrats were doing rough for a while against the conservatives and far right. After the immigration wave of 2015 they changed their stance (like most Nordics and the EU in general) towards an anti-immigration and xenophobe stance.

    This delivered them great success in elections due to them appropriating the popular talking points of the far right. Prior to this here in Norway, the social democrats, even as they were doing badly themselves, joked for some time that at least they were doing better than social democrats of Denmark.

    TL;DR The Nordic social democrats, with Denmark in the lead, want to be toughest in class on crime and immigration to do well in elections.

    In my opinion, this is just an internal contradiction of late stage capitalism, for which their ideology is not capable to compensate.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    For fuck saks. This is so deceitful

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I will move to Linux phone if chat control is enforced. Chat control violates all existing privacy regulations. It's insane.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You're lucky if you don't depend on apps such as banking apps or Ryanair digital boarding passes

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    We’re going to need a sanctioned phone just for banking and another one for everything else. Plus maybe a third one to take to demonstrations etc. Just great :(

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago*

    That is a problem for future Melroy. Hopefully some apps can just be used in a web app, so just going to their website.

    I also read about android virtualization within a container. Basically allowing you to still run android apps but we will see..

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I use hardware TAN generators but my bank's app works on LineageOS and GrapheneOS. If my travel service doesn't accept printed out documents then it is not a travel service I will use.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That won't work in the sense on page 35, Article 2 definition (f) it says that this applies to

        (ii)an interpersonal communications service;
        (iv) an internet access service;
    

    as well, meaning your phone provider and ISP. It's highly the approach to enforce this would couple e-SIM and some app on your phone or computer that things have to be routed through. Or you just don't get cell/internet service.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This has not yet happened even in the most authoritarian jurisdictions, with the possible exception of North Korea. The Internet is built with open protocols so any restrictions will have to be implemented on the network edge. There is no vendor locking for on-prem routers in multiple countries. As long as all purpose computers are not illegal you can still use strong encryption and anonymizing services on your end devices on your own network. So any mandatory surveillance and tracking will have no power there.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I would be happy to be wrong.

    The entire "proposal" is absolutely crazy from start to finish anyway. It's just that these companies will have to do ______ or be labeled or held liable for aiding in the distribution of CP.

    Who knows what they will come up with.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I think the strategy used the world-over, is to surveil everyone and build network graphs. You may work extremely hard to secure your device and communications, but the algorithms will build up a dossier on you based on all of the people you associate with who are less capable or motivated. Machine learning is insanely good at filling in missing data in an information rich dataset.

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  • [+] 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago*

    Of course, just listen to the CEO of Palantir, he already admitted that that's his goal. By inference, we can extrapolate that this is the goal of all major business leaders of these companies who are developing AI systems. They need more data to compete with China, and if that requires the West to have authoritarian mass surveillance systems, so be it.

    https://gizmodo.com/palantir-ceo-says-a-surveillance-state-is-preferable-to-china-winning-the-ai-race-2000683144

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Can we please stop circlejerking AI into everything? The chat control has been in debate before AI was mainstream

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My insight: EU is not interested in training AI for your corporations, neither are personal chats with likely zero accuracy/factuality good training material, neither is sms-style grammar going to improve any existing AI, everything about this is illogical and pretty stupid. It has always been about control, not.. training AI lol

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Again, that is not a good training material. There have been numerous studies on the type of training data we feed and the result of it. This type of content tends to poison the data and lead to equalivent of brainrot for AI's. This is not very useful data for AI, there are far better sources. Again, seems highly illogical the EU would do all this just to train some shitty AI. Training material should also always be accompanied by context data, which is commonly missing from instant messaging. It's just too big of a mess.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    I give it about a month before they're scanning your teens and banning your texts.

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  • Like trying to control une herde de la chats

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  • 10 comments in c/privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com view that post
    [–] 32 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    There needs to be a broad law that grants a right to privacy. To stop them spaming these proposals.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Has it ever been leaked who it is that's pushing for chat control so hard? It's almost comical at this point

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Leaked? It's public knowledge. Danish civilians are just too cowardly to show these authoritarians who are the actual bosses.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    That scrotum is just the current driver, but they're probably referring to some unnamed lobbying group that's been pushing for this for years. I'm not sure the identity of that group was ever revealed.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    … comrade, everything in the EU is public. Capitalists in parliament are capitalists, their lobby is public:
    You are their slave, they are your Masters.
    You do not deserve privacy, they do.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No, I was referring to the HLG that helped draft this legislation. We know who in the EU sent out the invitations, but requests to find out who was in the grouo were denied.

    https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/networks/high-level-group-hlg-access-data-effective-law-enforcement_en

    This is still (afaik) not public information.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Did you follow the links on the PDFs? Their names & draft sites are all cited throughout the citations.

    e.g. Written submission: EDRi

    1. Bill Goodwin, Dutch lawyers raise human rights concerns over hacked cryptophone data, Computer Weekly (October 2022) https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252526497/Dutch-lawyers-raise-human-rights-concerns-over-hacked-cryptophone-data
      Letter available at: https://media.licdn.com/dms/document/media/D4E1FAQHyO5aQ3qvwBQ/feedshare-document-pdf-analyzed/0/1666528452891?e=1709769600&v=beta&t=e1EzhDjzuCV_O82MNHFrYo49bw-zVTrtVtNT62FyZZE (in Dutch)
    2. European Court of Human Rights, Case of Yüksel Yalçinkaya v. Türk ye (Application No. 15669/20) Judgment, İ https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/?i=001-227636
    3. According to the Arrested Lawyers initiative, “the government claims that anybody who may have downloaded it is, in fact, a “ter- rorist.” The Arrested Lawyers Initiative, Report on the legal and technical issues around Turkey’s malicious ByLock Prosecutions, November 2021, available at: https://arrestedlawyers.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/report-bylock-november-2021.pdf
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  • 1 comment in c/privacy@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    EU on fast track to absolute madness: "Risk mitigation" is so vague that virtually anything can be arbitrary enforced to anyone, reports and deliberations kept secret, yet the French reps mentioned being "hostages" of data protection laws.

    By the way, the charter still mentions:

    Article 7

    Respect for private and family life

    Everyone has the right to respect for his or her private and family life, home and communications.

    Article 8

    Protection of personal data

    1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.

    2. Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law. Everyone has the right of access to data which has been collected concerning him or her, and the right to have it rectified.

    3. Compliance with these rules shall be subject to control by an independent authority.

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  • 1 comment in c/privacy@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    What the fuck.

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