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[–] 94 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I think the issue is people getting hung up on the gender identity, not the name. I have known lots of people who go by preferred names, whether chosen themselves or given to them by friends as nicknames. Hell, there are a few people I knew for years only by their preferred name/nickname without realizing it wasn't their given name.

And stage names make a lot of sense from a practical standpoint. Being famous by your given name can make it hard to separate professional life from personal life.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Don't know if it's the case in her situation, but there's also the thing with stage names where Guild rules require names to be unique. Like Michael J. Fox's middle name is actually Andrew. There was already a Michael Fox on the books so couldn't use that, Andrew or Andy Fox didn't feel right, and Michael A. Fox felt presumptuous (Michael, a fox. Fox having recently come into play as a synonym for attractive) or Canadian (Michael Eh? Fox)

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    This is why in The Simpson you will see David S. Cohen and in Futurama he is David X. Cohen. I think in a Futurama commentary he told about confusion in a guild or royalty payments that made him change how he was credited.

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  • [–] 40 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I feel silly now for not realizing that was a stage name.

    I straight up thought her actual name was "Whoopi".

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Historically they didn't give a fuck about a lot of things until they are searching for reasons to hate someone or a group of people.

    Take drag performance... drag is an ANCIENT tradition in Western theater that goes back into Ancient Greece. Name a comedian active in the black and white film era and I will show you a drag performance they made. Laurel and Hardy, the Three Stooges, they all did it, and exactly no one told them it was wrong.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If you know anyone who is anti trans but goes by a nickname, start calling them by their given name. Doug, you're Douglas. Alex, you're Alexander or Alexis or whatever. Bill: William. Ted: Rafael (might only apply to one Senator).

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    ...and if they go by their full name, Robert, add some extra on,Roberts, or take some off, Ro. Mispronounce their name badly, Lobert. Say their name in another language that they don't like, Roberto.

    It's not cool to fuck with people's names. You should be called what you want to be called. Unless they won't stop doing it to other people in bad taste. Then fuck them, at least until they finally get it.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    JD Vance isn't a real name, and that's cool. Apparently.

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  • [+] 32 points 1 year ago* (6 children)
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    [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    this dint start until conservatives,right wing groups started pushing the anti-trans narrative. which was pretty recent, like within 5-10years. nobody gave a poop about it til trumps 1st term. Now everyone is either afraid, or freaks out over names that should be ONE sex or the other, or gendered, plus this also applies to characther names in movies and shows. there was one trek show that made it forced and wierd, like that is making statement.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    It is pretty arbitrary which names we consider masculine and which names we consider feminine. On Big Brother Canada, there was a man named Hope. A man named Ashley works as a writer for Marvel Studios.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And we cannot forget one of the best comedy actors of all time, Leslie Neilson

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  • Who also has astonishing range, too. He was a serious actor before Airplane. Since halloween is coming up, watch the 1982 movie Creepshow. There was a short with him in it (it is an anthology) and he very convincingly plays a murderous wealthy Creep.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They don't seem to mind that JD Vance has had a bunch of different names.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Change your name to make yourself more palatable to a wider audience? Good.

    Change your name to make yourself more palatable for yourself? Bad, apparently.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Pen names are ancient, too. Mark Twain? Real name is Samuel Clements. Charles Dickens used the pen name Boz for some reason, and Stephen King used multiple pen names, especially early in his career.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Actors and actresses have to register their name with a guild and sometimes change it because it is too close to another previous actor's name or they don't want to show their nepo roots or whatever reason.

    So to just skip that problem they make up a registered stage name. Not that it lends any more authenticity but rather there is a structural professional reason that they do that.

    And I have no problem with people using any name as long as they don't mock me for needing help spelling it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    i suspect its more of hiding thier nepotism.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Going back a ways bigots had a problem with both Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay) and Kareem Abdul Jabbar (Lew Alcindor) but were fine with John Wayne (Marion Morrison).

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Not a gender-identity thing, but I met my best friend when I was 12. We didnt have any classes together so I never heard his name called out in the register.

    Wasn't until we were having a drink at 18 that I realised I didnt actually know his real name.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    The name is never the problem, it's that the person with the name exists that people get so butt hurt about

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Don't make the mistake of assuming the stances they take and the words they use are genuine arguments given in good faith. They will manipulate language and make claims just to achieve their own ends. They don't care about consistency. There is no goalpost they won't move. You can't convince them they are wrong using words.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Not really.

    The people who have an issue with that, don't have an issue with Rafael Cruz making up a white name.

    They just don't like people transitioning.

    You're implying transphobia is a common view.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago*

    The people who have an issue with that, don’t have an issue with Rafael Cruz making up a white name.

    Nobody is mad at Ted for changing his name. Folks are mad at him for pulling the rope up now that his family is here "legally", then trying to white wash his identity so you don't question him on it.

    You’re implying transphobia is a common view.

    It absolutely is. And it used to be a lot worse. Took a lot of people coming out at risk of their lives and livelihoods before we reached even this level of support for transgender civil rights.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    This one is a hard one, as a cis-gender male, I don't go by my real name. If someone calls me by my birth name I wouldn't even know they were referring to me.

    I think its more to do with gender rather than names, that and the will to be cruel, of course.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah, I go by my middle name and nobody thinks it's weird.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The only people that call me by my middle name are my... estranged family. So its sort of an insult in a way. Weird how that works out.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Its okay to have a different name as long as your conservative.

    Just ask Rafael Edward Cruz, famous Texas Magician who disappears everytime things go bad for his constituents.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    I think having a cute stage name is something people accept after you're famous.

    I'm gonna come in with maybe an unpopular hot take. I have no problems people being trans or choosing a name that suits your preferred gender, but--perhaps because of the repression earlier in life--it seems there is often an... aggressively creative search for names?

    I know about 8 MtF people (0 FtM for some reason?), and they are not picking mainstream names like Mary, Samantha, or Norah for example. Eris, Athena, Cybelle, Malice, and Laika are 5 of the 8 names chosen. It's not a problem, you pick it and I will use it, but it IS jarring. I'm not making excuses for transphobia because that's stupid, but it is strange to me to ostensibly want to blend in with everybody else, but then choose a name that obviously marks you out? It's like the line between choosing a name for your heroine DND character and for yourself is suddenly completely erased and it's absolutely your right, but as an outsider it's honestly kinda weird.

    I support a parents right to pick names for their kids, but aeslyn and breeleigh and brandaeden are weird names. Same for people who pick their own names regardless of gender identity. If you pick a name that is kinda weird... well it's kinda weird.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Coming up with a stage name is usually something that agents will tell their clients to do if their name sounds "too ethnic". Happens when they are auditioning for roles, not when they get famous.

    Random fact I heard the other day: Leonardo DiCaprio almost sent out headshots with a stage name at the advice of his agent, but his dad talked him out of it and told him to be proud of his name. I forget what they told him his stage name should be, but it was way more generic and forgettable than his real name.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    It makes a ton of sense actually.

    To make sure the line you quoted is giving you the right impression what I mean to say is if you pick a weird name well then it's a weird name, not that it's weird to pick it. You can't guarantee everyone will like any name you pick no matter who you are, and you sure can't force them to.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    What a silly argument. The name has to be on the list that you feel is an appropriate name for what ever gender were talking about. I feel you are perpetuating the problem.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    So change your name to pupscent IRL?

    You or anyone else can change their names to anything you want anytime; however, you can't force people to like it.

    Sure, if you want dream_weasel to like it, you can ask for the approved list. If you want to name yourself General Buttfuckingnaked you absolutely can, but if people don't like it that's YOUR problem. It isn't trans insensitive to be weirded out by you naming yourself Incestte, it's just a weird fucking name.

    I feel like if you're trying to mandate what people MUST like, you are CAUSING a problem. You can't force me to say a black belt and brown pants and shoes go together because a trans person picked it, that is still a shitty choice. Names are same deal. Being trans doesn't mean you are instantly exempt from every form of taste.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    There was a time when women could not wear pants. Men couldn't have long hair. Bellbottoms,.... well, enuf said.

    There are always people who have issues with how others talked/behaved/looked etc. In each case I don't think those people gave a shit if others liked it or not or they would have made a greater effort to be accepted by the masses.

    I'm hearing from your posts that it's important to be liked by others. I personally don't give a shit if people like me or not. I'm not willing to take on that burden.

    You get out of life what you put into it.

    That comment is easy to say, but much harder to fully embrace. Life experiences have a way of teaching you this lesson.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I'm not sure what youre basing this allegory on. There's nobody saying that trans folks (or anyone else) shouldn't be able to pick whatever name they like. I'm not even saying that people SHOULD like any name and it frankly isn't that important. It's not like don't wear pants or don't grow long hair. What I AM saying is that if you choose a name that is offbeat and people don't love it, like (whoopi, sure) that has nothing to do with being trans and having chosen a name that suits your gender identity, but rather with people having preferences about names that you can't control.

    The unspoken premise of the original post, which I disagree with, is that people don't like some set of names because trans people pick them. Instead, surprised Pikachu, there are names people don't really like. It's not trans stigma, it's filling your candy dish with black jelly beans and candy corn then saying, "people just don't like my candy because I'm pupscent and they are all backward cynophobes". If you like those candies then of course eat them, but let's not call it stigma if other people don't share your tastes.

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    [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I was only ok with the fake name of Guynan.

    Whoopi suck. Guyana, helped picard saved humanity.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    I recently learned that Charlie Sheen's birth name is Carlos Irwin Estévez.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yep, he adopted the stage name of his father, Martin Sheen (Ramón Gerard Antonio Estévez).

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Stage names are common for marketing something catchy. Book author aliases too.

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    JK Rowling used her initials because the publisher thought the books would sell better under a less feminine name. She now uses an even more masculine pen name for her detective novels. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it's kind of hypocritical given her outspoken anti-trans viewpoints.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Robert Galbraith Heath (May 9, 1915 – September 21, 1999) was an American psychiatrist.[1][2] He followed the theory of biological psychiatry, which holds that organic defects are the sole source of mental illness

    Indeed, he has been cited as the first, or one of the first, researcher(s) to have placed electrodes deep into the brains of living human patients.[15][1] It has been suggested that this work was financed in part by the government, particularly the CIA or U.S. military.[16][17][18]

    In 1972, he attempted using DBS to change a homosexual man to heterosexuality, which caused temporary arousal, but did not lead to long term change in attractions.[19] Heath also experimented with psychosurgery, the drug bulbocapnine to induce stupor, and LSD,[20][21][22] using African-American prisoners in the Louisiana State Penitentiary as experimental subjects.[23] He worked on schizophrenia patients, which he regarded as an illness with a physical basis.[24] Today Heath's work is considered highly controversial and is only rarely used as reference material.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Galbraith_Heath

    happy accidents, by JustKidding, Rowling

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    That's the problem.

    Gender change is a premium feature, how dare ypu, peasant!

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  • [+] 12 points 1 year ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What about people who have a problem with society moving quicker than science or medicine allows?

    What is it about the trans community and talking in absolutes so often? I would think that trans people would be a more skeptical bunch but they are the ones banning people for asking clarifying questions on platforms like lemmy.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    What do you mean by society moving quicker than science? Transgender people have existed before most scientific advancements. They existed in ancient Greece, they exist in Norse Mythology... They were persecuted in several government systems in the past such as Germany, they have always been here. It's just that social media and the Internet brings more information to people than ever before. So instead of never having met a trans person in your life more people are being introduced to them than ever before. Which also means some people who may have never understood what was going on with themselves and why they felt so different than the boxes society around them was placing them into. I know I'm a guy, I was born one and have always been one. If you look at Women's athletics, say the Olympics you will see many women that have naturally occuring high levels of testosterone that may be higher than your average male. You will also find men who have extremely low testosterone. So scientifically I see it as a blend that the hormones in our bodies have naturally created showing that what we define as man, and woman doesn't encompass everything. Only when we try to put someone in a group do we start to think that there is something abnormal about a person having higher or lower testosterone. Then you can get into the facet of sexual parts. 1.7/100 people are born with intersexual traits. If we say a person has to be a man or a woman, then there is a 1.7% chance a person doesn't fit into either box at birth. I see no reason that person shouldnt be able to live a happy life, not be treated the same as everyone else around them.

    I'm not a trans person, I am not well educated on all of it because it isn't something I had to educate myself on. But using that number there, scientifically there were 5.78 million people in the U.S. that were born outside the box of Man or Woman. To put that into perspective, 28 of the 50 states have less people in them, than the number of people born with intersex traits.

    So when someone downplays them and acts like they shouldn't exist, maybe it's easier to look at it as saying all of a U.S. state shouldn't exist simply because they were born there.

    Note: most of this was focused on intersex, not gender.. but I think it helps open the mind to understanding the world isn't as man/woman as we often think of it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I'm talking about whether we are actually helping trans people with science and medicine or not. We have moved too quickly and assumed too much and caused problems before. I know trans people exist, I dont know why everyone's convinced the science is settled on how to make them happy and healthy though.

    Try and bring up any negative side effects or analyze the risks of a procedure and trans people online take that as an attack against their whole community. I dont think trans people realize they are offending people who want to help them.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And it's not something new or anything like that. There are lots of cultures through history in which people choose their own names or alternate names throughout their life for a variety of reasons.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    The only people that have a problem with people changing gender is religious people that think that a fictional god assigned them a gender at birth, because their god knows and controls everything, so can never, ever, ever, ever be wrong about anything. Ever. Like a person's gender. So they hate everyone that questions their fictional hate book. Because it takes them a lot of work to live in that weird, fictional religious reality they want to so badly.

    Be whatever gender you want to be. I'll call you whatever you want, but at least stick to it for a bit.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I've never encountered or noticed this problem that you mention.

    I can't even see an issue with choosing a name that suits their gender, whatever that may be..

    Is this really such a big deal irl?

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  • 🔥🔥🔥

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The main difference is that nobody considers referring to Whoopi Goldberg as Caryn Elaine Johnson a hate crime.

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  • I don't think anyone considers calling someone by another name a crime, it's just considered rude and non professional/business like. If I went into work and called someone I didn't like by another random name all the time until the point it was making them feel uncomfortable, HR would come ask me to stop creating a less than ideal work environment and making my coworkers uncomfortable. If I refused to do so, I would expect the HR department to end my employment for that company. None of it is a hate crime, but people have a right to exist and be not be treated in a way you wouldn't treat others.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    She has stated that her stage forename ("Whoopi") was taken from a whoopee cushion: "When you're performing on stage, you never really have time to go into the bathroom and close the door. So if you get a little gassy, you've got to let it go. So people used to say to me, 'You're like a whoopee cushion.' And that's where the name came from."
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoopi_Goldberg

    TIL it was a fart joke.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)
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