During the previous round of shirkflation I warned people about knowing what year a recipe was from because "a can" means something different in 2004 than in 2010. And now it means something different again in 2025.

Now boxes are getting the shrink treatment too.

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.bestiver.se/post/618032

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[–] 57 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I hit this with the chocolate banana cheesecake I posted here last week.

I've been making variants of it for some 30 years now, and while most of the ingredients are raw ingredients, it does call for an entire 12 ounce bag of miniature chocolate chips. You have to use mini chips because of the low baking temp, full size chips don't melt all the way and give it a weird texture.

Imagine my surprise last week to find that Nestle morsels only come in 10 and 20 ounce bags now.

Fortunately, the STORE brand was still a standard 12 ounces and the recipe still works. Fine. I didn't want to give Nestle the money anyway. ;)

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    If you're going to use ounces you either make the result divisible by 4 or you use fucking metric. 10 in ounces defeats the entire point of 16 ounces in a pound. Fucking 5/8ths of a pound. Great unit of sale, very useful.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    At least if I bought the 20 ounce bag, that's divisible by 4, and taking out 12, leaves 8... but still...

    Baking shouldn't start with a Tower of Hanoi puzzle.

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  • [–] 131 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    using measurements like 'a can' is just a bad idea anyways..

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  • [–] 86 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    While this is true, Betty Crocker is shooting themselves in the foot with this.

    Back in the day having a recipe for a specific box made cooking easier and locked people into one brand of ingredients.

    This move is undoing a lot of the marketing they did back in the 40s and 50s

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I had a chicken casserole recipe and it called for "a can of cream of chicken soup". Ok, this soup comes in the normal, single serving size and the jumbo "cooking for a family" size. It made the recipe unusable.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It’s American by nature.

    “It’s 1950 and a can is a can is a can, everyone knows how big a can is. And it will never change!”

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Yeah but a can is basically one unit. Once a can is opened it usually has to be used relatively quickly, so I would much rather use an entire can than measure out a fractional number of cans to be precise with measurements. It depends on the ingredient of course but eg with beans it really doesn't matter to get the exact weight.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Before this, I'd been complaining about frozen vegetables for a while now. I have several soup/casserole/savory-pie type recpies that all call for frozen vegetables by the pound (ex: Defrost 1lb. broccoli and 1lb. cauliflower). Now all the veg comes in 12oz bags instead of 16oz, and I don't want to make 3/4 the food, I want the WHOLE recipe -- and I don't want a bunch of half-used bags in the freezer.

    Messing with cake mixes is an even bigger problem for me. On the rare occasion I make a cake, it is either homemade carrot cake or from a box because I all my attempts to make a decent regular cake (chocolate, angel food, or whatever) have been too dry, too crumbly or otherwise inferior. I guess Betty Crocker just doesn't want my money. S'alright. I like my carrot cake and its surely more healthy.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I'd look to see if there is a different veg I could add to fill out the quarter pound. Like maybe some raw carrots could be chopped and added to the cauliflower And if they're cut to the right size they'll cook them the same amount of time.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    OR they could go back to standard portions that don't require recipe fixes. The better solution is to use fresh veg, but frozen is a huge time saver. FWIW, the broc/cauliflower recipe continues and adding more carrots would overwhelm the carrot quantity. This is pretty close to mine, but I don't use lemon juice and do use nutmeg: https://oukosher.org/recipes/layered-vegetable-kugel-pareve/

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    But then the product would cost more and people would immediately go to whatever other brand was available out of spite or budget consciousness.

    Margarine? I didn't know people still used that.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)
    1. The products already cost more, regardless, and they HAVE sent me to a different brand in a different store that didn't change sizes. The other one costs more than the 12oz., but it less per pound (something like $1.59 for 12oz or $1.99 for 16oz. -- you get the idea). Pre-COVID, these would regularly go on sale for $.99 a pound.

    2. For me it is oil and not margarine, just like the example says. You will find lots of kosher recipes do not use butter because you can't eat dairy with meat -- and even if you aren't eating meat, you still need dairy from a kosher animal. Cheese can't have animal rennet. There are lots of rules. Anyway, it is easier to skip butter for anything that might get eaten with meat.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This explains everything.

    I made some things from hand me down recipes recently that I had memorized and they seemed a bit off. So I dug up the recipes (a can of this and a container of that) and assumed that I was going insane.

    These c°ck$uck!ng m0th3rf^ck€r$… Grrr!

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    We had to go through my great grandmothers hand written recipes and add measurements because of things like this, all the way back in the 90s it was an issue. A can of cherries was several ounces larger than it was then, and I guess even worse now.

    She also liked to do a lot of "Add flour until it's sticky" so we just added "Start with x amount of cups of flour then add more as needed"

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  • [–] 88 points 1 year ago (39 children)

    Recipes that don't specify things in grams and millilitres can go screw.

    "Now add a traditional american furlong of bushel sauce to the 25 ounce pot until it bubbles up by five and a smidge horse hands" ... yeah, no 😅

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    The heating time time on some frozen chicken strips was for "a cup". Of long frozen pieces of chicken.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    My favourite is "one cup of spinach".

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Is a cup not equivalent to 250ml?

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  • It's close, it's like 236.6mL. A cup is 1/4 of a quart, a quart is a smidge less than a liter. If you're converting to metric, 1 tsp comes out to ~5mL, 1 Tbsp is ~15mL, 1 fl. oz. is ~30mL, and 1 cup is ~250mL. The proportions will come out about right, you'll just bake a little bit more.

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 1 year ago (28 children)

    I didn't learn to measure anything until I was 30. I just cooked by vibes. My girlfriend started getting really irritated that I would make something and she would never have it again. Something like it? Sure. But it? No. So I started actually learning how to cook and know how much was going in .

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Cooking freehanded can work. Cooking is art. Baking, on the other hand, is science. Every ingredient must be measured precisely, or you'll get seriously funny results. And often on the bad side of funny.

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Once you figure out the science you can even freehand baking. Salt, flour, water yeast. Got a flour with more protein? Up the water and decrease the salt a little. Trying to make bread out of cake flour? Decrease the water a touch. Know what your target hydration level is for a bread type and you can pretty much wing the rest. Can't do a double rise today? Do a slow rise in the fridge overnight. Want a slightly thicker crust? Add more salt. Baking has a lot of potential for freeform once you figure out the mechanics behind what goes into a recipe.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (20 children)

    That's the way I cook, just have made enough mistakes and so many different dishes I can put things together and make magic. On baking, my family doesn't like fancy cakes, more like snacking cakes, those are pretty forgiving. I don't measure rice & water, just know how it should look, and yes my husband sometimes gets annoyed that it's not more standardized but I'm not a commercial chef I am a cook.

    The exceptions - My sourdough bread, and the sourdough chocolate chip cookies - carefully measured by weight and if I am winging the bread (never the cookies) I try to still write down the measurements in case it's the best bread I have ever made. The bread I could almost certainly make it without measuring at this point, I can tell by how it feels, what it will do, but have the scale and use it.

    My mom cooked from recipes. Only from recipes . She asked her mom once how to make good biscuits, and her mom said "the water has to be very cold". Which, honestly, would have helped me a lot. But my mom wanted a recipe!

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    I don’t measure rice & water

    oh dude entire family agrees that i make the best rice in the family and i've tried to teach them how i make the rice but like it's a big fucking argument how to make rice properly. at this point i think it's just become a joke.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    One scoop of rice. Rinsed a few times until the water is mostly clear. Throw it in the pot I always use for rice. Add water to the lower line that has developed over the years of making rice in the same pot. The upper line is from making mac and cheese so don't use that one. Some salt. Maybe some oil or butter depending on the final dish. Place the lid on.

    Bring to a boil, reduce to low. Wait until the lid harmonics change to tell you there isn't any liquid water in there anymore. Use a fork to check the bottom of the pot for water. Done.

    No one else here knows how to make rice. Everyone thinks a rice cooker would make my life easier. I had one. I tossed it because it kept scorching the rice.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    The crispy rice at the bottom of your pot is tahdig in Persian, tutong in Tagalog. In some cultures and families, they fight over the crispy rice, lol.

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  • i can never get tahdig right, pressure cooker or stovetop. we used to have a kebab place around the corner that included it in their rice and i did everything i could to keep them in business. they closed march 2020 and left the country. good for them.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah but it kinda messes up fried rice

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    the lower line that has developed over the years of making rice in the same pot. The upper line is from making mac and cheese

    Maybe you need to scrub your pots more thoroughly. If they're stainless steel or something similar there shouldn't be any permanent stains forming unless you don't use enough elbow grease.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    once we got an electric pressure cooker it got a lot easier, but now i miss my rice pot that's in a box somewhere in the garage.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I have five pressure canners/coolers. None electric. I don't trust electronic devices designed to turn electricity into heat and be sold as cheap as possible to be a buy it for life item.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    i mean, neither did i. someone bought it for us. i feel like such a luddite sometimes. we mostly use it for rice and making budder, which it does a fantastic job at. we've had ours for 8 years which i had to look up and shocks me that it's been working that well that long.

    i keep wanting to make hummus, i just never do. it makes the smoothest hummus (we put the beans in for 45 minutes, no pre-soak), but you don't exactly need it to be electric. you got the pressure canner already.

    also the lemon curd is so easy. godsdammit i gotta make lemon curd with my budder i am so lazy

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I’m curious, do you use the first line on your middle finger to measure water?

    That’s how my grandmother taught us (pot and rice cooker).

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    i used to use my index finger, now i'm all about different ratios of water to rice depending on the grain because i'm fancy. we've got a 25 lb bag of jasmine we're working through that i do 3water:2rice + 1T butter + 1/2 t salt.

    Current project is good garlic rice, so i've been sauteing up some garlic butter (for 1 cup of rice, 10 cloves in 4T butter, then adding all the cloves and 1T of the garlic butter), but it's not quite garlicky enough. I'm not sure whether i need more cloves or to make the butter more garlicky somehow.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You and my dad would get along great. He uses a whole bulb; his fried rice version has this toasted garlic flavor that’s just tasty.

    My SIL adds Better Than Bouillon Roasted Garlic with her garlic rice (I dont remember if it’s a teaspoon or tablespoon).

    Another version we learned was adding a combo of grated garlic and baked garlic; they both have different yet distinct flavors. That’s my aunt’s version and she uses chicken broth (Alton Brown’s recipe).

    Lol on the fancy… good for you. You’re right though, different kinds of rice require different amounts of water. We already got that lecture from our grandparents a looooong time ago.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    The problem with that is that the size of the pot changes the volume of water with a linear finger measure.

    Like for extremes if you had a test tube shaped pot with a foot of rice deep and only a finger depth of water is way different than a giant wide pot where grains area single layer and then a finger depth over top.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Uses some American brand name you’ve never heard of as an ingredient with no further elaboration

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Because of this I won't buy any box mixes anymore - they were almost always overpriced for what you got and didn't contain anything magical... They just made things simpler. I'll make my cakes and cookies from scratch now and save a fortune.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Thank you for sharing, was just thinking there needed to be some literature on simple cooking ratios. Looking forward to giving it a read

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    I can't speak to that book specifically and am not sure what the translation of Australian moneys to Freedom Units is, but 40 bucks for THIS sounds kinda... I wouldn't go so far as to say "scammy" but I would definitely imply it.

    Yes, baking and the like is almost entirely ratios. But you still have to understand how many parts fat and liquid butter is versus shortening versus lard versus... Yes, understanding those ratios makes it much easier to be flexible and you start realizing just how similar so many recipes are (and what the actual contribution of a given developer is). But that is more in the sense that you learn how similar two bread recipes actaully are as you make both.

    The best way to actually learn that is to actually just cook and read through the recipes and make tweaks as you go. The second best way is to find instructors/youtubers who understand this and convey it. Kenji is going through some stuff lately but his older videos are spectacular for "Two parts flour to one part water but also this is the texture you actually want because humidity is a thing". But Brian Lagerstrom (and Ethan Chlebowski when he is focusing more on cooking and less on weird wellness guru'ing) have more than taken up the burden. And while it is a few tiers lower, Made With Lau is actually amazing for learning how to translate "older" recipes into actionable steps.

    And if you JUST want the ratios? Just go to the library and grab a few of the foundational cookbooks for a given cuisine and look at the recipes. THOSE are the ratios and... they are generally going to be REALLY close

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The best way to actually learn that is to actually just cook and read through the recipes and make tweaks as you go. The second best way is to find instructors/youtubers who understand this and convey it.

    My favorite ice cream cookbook has like six recipes across 150 pages. It explains why those recipes work the way they do (milkfat percentages and cooking temperatures) and then it's just variations on the recipes in different flavors. I've broken like seven ice cream machines getting it right and it's been worth it.

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  • I don’t know if it’s scammy - hard to tell without reading it - but it does sound really incomplete. There are so many variations on fats, liquids, liquids that are fats like oils, different behaviors of fats, the role of proteins like eggs, leavening agents… Maybe the book covers more, but just basic ratios doesn’t seem very helpful.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Completely picking up what you're putting down regarding the dollar value and if I'm being honest was probably going to find an alternative way to access rather than purchase. Our libraries offer pretty much every book as ebooks on loan and for informational non fiction works you can usually glean the majority of the content through a quick peruse in-store or online synopsis.

    Personally I do little baking but have been the primary cook in our household for the past 8 or so years and have been noticing that my dishes have been improving a lot lately due to noticing some ratios (particularly in pasta dishes, carbonara especially) that seem to work really well with what the family likes. These are probably rather personal and the missus does also somewhat despise that I generally never make the same thing twice cause I'm always tweaking things depending on available ingredients & whatnot, basically cooking from experience and feel. So I also agree with what you've mentioned around learning from doing and bringing in the look, feel & smell components to aid that learning.

    The smell of things has made a huge difference in my cooking as well once I started to pay attention to when I could smell that things were done (mostly bbq and baking) - nothing more disappointing then following a recipe to the letter and coming out with an over cooked lamb shoulder (just one somewhat recent experience).

    Why this was interesting was because I've realized that having a few ratios/rule of thumbs that relate not just to ingredient ratios but also to cooking times and styles I can be way more flexible and adventurous in my cooking while maintaining mostly consistent flavours and (more importantly) a happy family.

    Also realizing the importance of trusting that you know your own appliances/cooking environment best has been helpful lately. Going back to the lamb shoulder comment, the recipe asked for me to have the grill at medium heat or about 150' Celsius for like an hour. For me to get my bbq up to 150' took a lot (it's a six burner, so lots of space) but I was determined to follow the recipe to the letter and instead what I did was I ruined the dish. Everything was telling me that it was too hot (dials were past mid way, fat flare ups, etc) but instead of trusting my instincts and adjusting to my conditions I just blindly followed the recipe.

    So yeah, bit of a lengthy comment but love simple ratios like a 3:1 for a vinegarette and feel like I could definitely benefit from some more knowledge in that area to further bolster my cooking skills. I'll check out a couple of the youtubers you mentioned and go from there, cheers

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Guess everyone learns this at some point. I just skip any recipe that doesn't give me volume or weight for everything. Otherwise, the chance of messing up the recipe is too high.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You must do some high stakes cooking. I always tweak recipes, sometimes even if I've never made it before.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Sometimes it doesn't matter much, sometimes it does. There are probably some recipes I'd give a go. But really, it doesn't actually come up all that often. I think a lot of people have converted cans in old recipes to actual measurements before posting online.

    My family doesn't really have any recipes they passed down. Pretty sure they did everything by feel.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That doesn't really help when you need X amount of something and everything is sold in Y amounts.

    While some ingredients this isn't an issue, I've run into this for pasta sauce/paste, coconut milk, canned beans, etc. which are hard to work around.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I work around it fairly often. It can be inconvenient for sure. I think I end up avoiding those types of recipes if I'm not going to be cooking with those ingredients often enough. But for ones that I do, coconut curries funnily enough, I just deal with having some in my fridge at pretty much all times.

    Other times I substitute the canned/frozen version for fresh since you can buy the right amount.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So many family recipes are documented this way, though, so it's a significant problem when these are handed down.

    "I just skip grandma's chili because she didn't record it using volume or weight for everything" isn't a thing people say or do.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You see, this is resolved by having no family recipes handed down to you. Like myself.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    I have zero recipes handed down. But a while back I made an effort to remember every standard meal my mom made in the 70s and 80s and re-create them. If I had a question on some detail I'd ask her.

    So nothing handed down on paper but I did get all the information.

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