I did get messed up by some anxiety and have these thoughts rolling through my head so I'll leave it at cosmic horror warning.

spoilerI'm not religious but I have thoughts about experiencing consciousness and what it is. I say that consciousness is independent of memory because we forget, clearly dependent on our physical body, etc. generally I do say that we don't know consciousness so maybe it can be reconstructed (in the can't rule out the possibility way)

So I can see scenarios were my conscious could pop into existence without my memories after I die (as I'm writing this I realized that's nothing to fear).

I am trying to adopt healthier mindset of looking at everything in life as a quest, new things are a call to action, and that it's okay if everything I do amounts to little in x number of years (worked out okay for ozymandias, right?).

Im probably just rambling because my life has got boring and monotonous along with actual fear of American politics.

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[–] 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If it was real and you could retain memories of past lives, I'm confident we'd have some evidence/proof.

If it exists without memory retention and its just some sort of "soul" concept then it really doesn't matter since you won't remember anything for it to be worth worrying about.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    I was thinking you'd be "reincarnated" or reconstituted via Boltzmann's brain scenario and you'd get your memories back after some crazy amount of time, but I get that could happen at an earlier stage in life. Sounds like the "universe was created 5 minutes ago along with all our memories" BS

    It's interesting having someone tell me to not worry about it.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Ever hear of Dr. Ian Stevenson?

    Edit: Not sure why I'm being downvoted, dude looked into reincarnation and had hundreds of documented cases, Carl Sagan wanted people to look more into it

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    He emphasized that the information he collected was suggestive of reincarnation but "was not flawless and it certainly does not compel such a belief."

    If even the guy who had done the most research on it doesn't believe in it, why should anyone else?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Don't cherrypick qoutes.

    Regardless he had to say that to give himself an out, there was concern that he'd be judged negatively for even suggesting reincarnation. Something proven by your own hostility.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    When you see anyone disagreeing with you as hostility, you've clearly lost the thread.

    Stop trying to twist his words in weird ways that benefit your stance, he very literally said we shouldn't believe.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    No.

    Do you remember before being born? It's the same after.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    What about people who claim past life memories?

    As is common amongst Buddhists

    Related video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_4BFX_qhhyk

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    I am aware. I personally think it's a load of religious bull, but don't directly want to offend anyone wanting to believe it.

    I also know repatriation (I hope that's the correctly translated term) which is proven to be planted suggested memories through that very process scientifically as far as I am aware at the current state of science.

    I do love reading (eg the game is life) playing with these theories, though!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Proof of the evidence that reparitation is suggested?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Fair request.

    I did some research into the topic a year ago due to my situation and came to the stated conclusion.

    So I tried to find some scientific research again right now (in a limited time frame of like 10 to 20 minutes, on my mobile).

    I first tried in English bot got a lot of hits regarding companies and since my native language is not English I don't know what that word means in relation to companies and also didn't want to waste time on that.

    So I tried it in German and was flooded by hits which offer that ad a service and as such of course tell you how successful it is. Obviously.

    I was not able to find the research I remember within that time, I am sorry.

    However in any case you'd be free to believe whatever anyway.

    The point of the information I read was however that people coming out of the procedure (sometimes, possibly also accidentally) get memories planted in a well known psychological way and it is a highly untrustworthy procedure.

    So that's why I didn't do it. I have enough to cope with and don't need additional fictional issues added to that 😁

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    And they found that all this does is create false memories?

    Edit: Oh you meant the hypnosis does. Yeah not sure why he recommended that part before meditation

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Indeed. So the brain would create memories from context.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    So reincarnation is not a thing but what's to stop "you" from coming back as a new individual? After all, it happened at least once.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    That's where we get into technicalities and states of dying.

    Ao while I was medically dead it wasn't so dead that it was unrecoverable. Akin to a reset. Which, depending on the state you were in and the measures taken, could also have side effects and damages.

    Anyhow biologically 'you' are still there. And leaving the body is it after a bit of decay. Like a complex system falling apart unrecoverably.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    I think conclusively stating that is a bit much, we don’t know shit about how consciousness works, do how can we know what happens if it ends?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I died and came back and there was nothing, that concludes it for me. Ymmv, of course.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Are you sure? Like what do you mean nothing? Like it all went to black? How do you know you just don't remember it?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    (in order of questions)

    Yes I am. Well, like dreamless time-skip sleeping or before being born, nothing. No not even going to black just not and nothing being there, movie cut.

    And lastly, I can't, true. It could also be being influenced by the cocktail of medication you get in that situation which by the way has created a lot of stories to tell afterwards (trips) but not from the time of dying.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The fact that your particular molecules will reconstruct into something else is 100% certain

    Will you keep your particular consciousness in this process - unlikely

    However if you drop off the definition of You as your current limited body and mind, then reincarnation is exactly what happens.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    This is hard to articulate, but like molecules thar make up a person constantly come in and leave the body and when their in the body they "change states". Technically while you're alive you changing into other things constantly. Person you were a second ago could be considered dead since that was a specific combination of atoms that are lost.

    It just ads to the mystery of consciousness

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Suppose reincarnation was real. But no one has any memory or awareness of a past life. So then what connection does said past life even have to you? How can any supposed past 'you's really be considered the same you?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    In my scenario it would be "consciousness" whatever that is. I could imagine myself with different set of memories or alternate timeline where a different set of events happened. I don't have any evidence that those scenarios exist, but it would paint a picture that I could be a different person or even a different living continue being.

    But yeah if I did have a past life it's totally lost to me.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    But if this other consciousness has no continuity or connection to the consciousness that is currently 'you', how can it be said to be you?

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    i too am a long time lay practictioner of tibetan buddhsm, That is the real answer.

    And to add, The Buddhists themselves don't really focus on the reincarnation aspect as much as one would think, its only ever really something that comes up incidentally like when enough connections about something come together in the right ways to warrant the question that maybe a past life is returning.

    A reincarnated someone would be similar to someone who by their entirety of their atoms to their thoughts, seems to be like this other collection of thoughts and atoms.

    Like the process of identifying the dalai lama is basically for the people searching to hone in on the schema of a dalai lama through any way they can and then when someone matches it they do their tests which are essentially to check if their actions are similar to that of the previous ones.

    The way in which memory of psst lives works is much like lucid dreaming upon your death bed, you go to sleep with awareness of the changing reality and then the dream you end up in preferably made with an intentional choice becomes one solid line of remembrance which leads to kids who remember their past lives directly.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What do you mean by causal connection?

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  • This may be a problem created by the vagueness of language. We don't yet know how consciousness works out what it even is, so we can't assume that it functions independently of your perceptions, memories, and thoughts. It's a bit like that chestnut about Star Trek transporters, does it kill you and recreate you somewhere else?

    Is consciousness merely a map of reality in a constant process of adjusting itself, or is there something there that exists separate from everything that makes us ourselves?

    I spend some time thinking about it. I've always been by turns impressed with consciousness and very annoyed with its limitations.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    No.

    Enjoy the ride.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not in the traditional sense, but I have a pet theory about the continuation of consciousness.

    You can only experience being, not not-being, so even if your consciousness went dark for a million years before being “reincarnated,” there would be no gap from the perspective of your subjective experience. You can only go from having one experience to having another. Nothingness can’t be experienced.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    Makes me think about going into a coma from a car accident. Your consciousness could be out for however long, then you make a weird fantasy and regain consciousness and start a journey to fill recovery. It would be good to have a healthy attitude/mindset imprinted onto yourself in that scenario.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I believe in reincarnation just as much as I believe any other theory of an afterlife - that is to say, I don't.

    We don't know. Nobody knows what happens when we die. That's ok, and I don't feel the need to make up a story to explain away the uncertainty.

    I think it's likely that something happens when we die, but it could just as easily be nothingness, the end of existence. I only think it's likely because I definitely believe that there is SO much that we don't understand about the universe that it's more probable than not that SOMETHING happens that we can't currently fathom, perceive, or understand.

    But, right now there's no real evidence. So I don't care, and I don't worry about it.

    To our best understanding, everything that lives will die. I don't know what happens, it might be some form of heaven, it might be reincarnation, it might be transcendence, etc. However, I take comfort in the fact that it's a shared experience, whatever it is. It's natural. It's part of the process.

    The universe doesn't owe us an explanation. Maybe we'll figure it out, but we haven't yet, and I'm fine with that.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Nope. I have never seen any evidence of reincarnation, so have no reason to believe in it.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Yeeeeah, all due respect to believers, but we're squishy wet computers riding squishy wet stilts and when we get turned off we just sort of fizzle out.

    There's some poetry to only having one go at it, but I'm not gonna stand here and say a sense of humanism makes your hardcoded fear of death subside. I get why humans come up with coping mechanisms where they get to live forever in some form that isn't having their atoms repurposed as fertilizer and space dust.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It doesn’t make sense biologically

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's peaceful at least. It will cure my anxiety.

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    I do believe in reincarnation, in that we are all physical manifestations of what you could call "God". That means that everyone you meet, every dog you pet, every ant you accidentally squish, is synonymous with the divine. We are all constantly reincarnating throughout the universe, and this should be looked at no more acutely than the cells in your body constantly dying and being reborn.

    I guess you could call it pantheism, though I tend to follow philosophies like Zen Buddhism and the Tao and it still seems to work.

    Looking at existence in this way can form a new understanding, nay, a new reverence towards your life and the universe. Then you will understand who you really are and why you're here. The real power of God is in manifesting everywhere, all the time, all at once. After all...

    And that is, of course, why the images of the Hindu gods are shown with many arms or many faces: because it is saying that all arms are the arms of the divinity, all faces are its masks.

    -Alan Watts, Out Of Your Mind

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    To be honest, the only answer i have to say is: "we'll see". Wheter it's nothing or not, the second option would imply that there is effectively something beyond what we know about the universe.

    What even is the soul? YOU from now think very different than YOU from ten years ago. Can we say that those two people are the same? Not really. Yet you share common memories with this early you, who doesn't exist anynore. Is it technically correct in this point of view to say that you are the reincarnation of you from ten years ago?

    If someone in the far future were to think like you, to remember exact memories from yours, would act the same way you would act in the same situation, it would not we wrong to say they are your reincarnation, no?

    Again i'm just supposing.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No but I wonder if hell is being made an insect over and over.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    I doubt insects are conscious because of how simple they are, but I do like that rich and Morty scene where the teacher was happy to be turn into a fly, but that's because he was in therapy for eating poop

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago
    [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I like the idea in Buddhism, that you are precious/valuable from the moment you are born. You already achieved plenty in your past life, which is why you were born as a human. Therefore, there is no need for self-hatred or for pressure to perform.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not very knowledgeable about Buddhism but is the cycle over once you 'reach' humanity or can you just be an awful human being in this incarnation and come back as E. coli the next time?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    IIRC, you can still come back as a "lesser" creature next time. Monks and ascetics exist because they're trying to go up to whatever is above human. I've forgotten the details. Nirvana or some kind of god-like state of existence, or reunification with some higher power. This might vary depending on the specific religion.

    Of course, there are people who believe that assuming humans are a higher form of life is an arrogant assumption in the first place, which would render all of that null.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    Well, no, consciousness is not independent on brain. It's not magic or stored anywhere. Pretty simple proof: people with brain damage very often have a huge personality shift.

    Anyway, even if you forget stuff, the pathways between neurons have already been made. And sometimes you remember things randomly after many, many years.

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  • Anyone who says they know what happens when you die is trying to grift you. No one knows and we all find out one day, no point in dwelling on it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well it is part of my religion, but how it's interpreted varies :3

    I personally don't worry over death too much either way

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Not like we can do much about it, right? And life is a gift so every day is already more than what we 'deserved'.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I mean.. im not gonna say the whole gift and "more than what we deserve" stuff, but yeah.. what happens when you die doesn't really matter much, and no one can know what happens, so you should really focus on doing stuff now, and not planning for some eventuality that you can never predict

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If it was a choice why would I ever wanna come back to this hell hole ?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think this universe sucks, not to ignore human history. Lots of it is empty space apparently cosmic events can wipe you out with next to no warning, your made up of atoms and cells that can die and degrade, and we are stuck to this solar system because space isn't empty it's full of shit thats going to kill you

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Which is why my headcanon for this universe is that we're basically running rogue playthrough in this life. After you die, you'll regain all your "soul" memories and will be given a choice to "replay" with another life and losing your memories "again" until you've reached a certain level of enlightenment and then you'll "graduate" from our current level of existence.

    Call me crazy but it helps me sleep at night, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The amount of effort people put into saying “Maaaybe. We really don’t know,” is just crazy to me. No, because it’s nonsense.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Eh... No, but its nice to think about it.

    As stated by many others, evidence is required to prove something. However, the stories we tell ourselves are comforting, so I wont fault anyone who does. Up until the point where people start going "My sky-dad could totally beat up your sky-dad", that can Belgium right off...

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's hard to say exactly. I wouldn't put it past the dev(s) to have potentially put something like "The Egg" in, so potentially yes, though we'd have no way of testing for it.

    Story by Andy Weir here: https://youtu.be/h6fcK_fRYaI

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    Yeah I watched that video when it was new and had it rattling around in my head. It probably why I starting thinking memories and intelligence aren't part of consciousness. I do think emotions are connected to consciousness because they seem to override decision making.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Sort of, not in a religious way.

    Like I don't think there will be anything special that you get to keep with you, the "soul" is just a vessel to experience things, nothing special about it. As in: There aren't any hero stories, no "dragon reborn"s, no Karma. Just randomness. This moment, you are a human, when you die, your next moments could be a bug crawling next to you when you died, or newborn kitten to a pregnant cat in your backyard, or a cockroach about to get stepped on. Then some time again, you will be another human. Or perhaps proximity doesn't matter and you could be born on some alien planet far away. There is no concious god, its just pure randomness.

    As if you are an immortal camera and your body is the microSD card adaptor, your memories are the microSD card, your experiences are just what the camera sees.

    Sorry if my beliefs are silly, but I think there is some part of living beings that current level of technology cant quite measure yet. I think it has something to do with mass energy equivalence, maybe when we die, we become some energy that just bounces around until we become something else.

    Its like people used to think the Earth orbited the sun. People used to not be able to see germs, or atoms, then we went from seeing atoms, to protons, electrons, then we say those even smaller parts.

    Perhaps there is something that can't be measured yet. Perhaps it may never be able to be measured.

    The way I see it:

    It's either:

    [1] Nonexistence --> I exist --> Nonexistence (and never exist again)

    Or

    [2] Nonexistence --> I exist --> Nonexistence --> I exist again (repeat for a long time, possibly forever)

    Option one breaks my brain, so I just choose to go with option 2 to keep my sanity.

    Maybe is just my monkey brain being silly, idk, but our minds have to invent these little stories to keep ourself sane. We as non-omniscient beings cannot objectively observe the universe, is all just biased subjective interpretations that are unique to us.

    But regardless, this is the only chance I get to experience "this" life, "next" time I might be the bug the gets crushed by a neighbor that "this" life used to live with. So um... yea, thanks for coming to my ted talk

    Take it sleezy 🤷‍♂️

    🌌 (Your next life will be on a planet in a solar system with 3 suns, good luck with the chaotic eras lol)

    (I must sound so stupid right? Given that this is Lemmy and eveyone here is an Atheist. Its fine, just leave my monkey brain believe its weird theories 😅)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    it seems reinicarnation, is an obsession amongst western countries co-opted from india/buddhism, and incorporated into many medias.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Nope. When I die, there is no longer a me of any sort; just any media and memory that captures some moment of when I still was until those too fade.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Want there to be evidence reincarnation exists . Want there to be research teams dedicated to finding it

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don’t believe in reincarnation, but one thing that isn’t mentioned enough is that there aren’t enough “souls” for everyone to have a reincarnation. If you rewind the clock back, once the original (for the sake of this exercise) 100 people died, the next generation would have 200-300 people already alive due to multiple children, which means they would halve mostly new souls. Fast forward to today, I’d imagine a lot of people would have baby souls.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That argument only works on the specific belief that souls constantly exist on earth though. In various mythologies and religions, there are various other realms where countless numbers of souls exist without inhabiting a human body on earth.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah I'm no gonna subscribe to the religious concept of reincarnation. I do agree it wouldn't make sense that there's a fixed number of souls that were doing it for eternity, or that there's this coherent cycle reincarnating as different animals all the way back to begining of life.

    It is cool think about "soul" being cleansed like some day we can become redeemable through some process. I don't believe that's happening

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  • I want to believe

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No, that's silly and easily disproven. I merely believe I'm a facet of a benevolent fierce deity that supervenes on behalf of humanity

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    No. I believe in a relative afterlife (and people who feel confident that no afterlife is some sort of overwhelmingly logical conclusion should probably look closer at trending science and technology).

    So I believe that what any given person sees after death may be relative to them. For those that hope for reincarnation, I sure hope they get it. It's not my jam but they aren't me.

    That said, I definitely don't believe that it's occurring locally or that people are remembering actual past lives, etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I hope reincarnation is true. I want to be reborn. But than again, I fear being reborn in some dystopian future.

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