Burn baby burn!!!!!!

“Many in the market feel we have no choice but for it to work out,”

Yes this is what it everyone feels like when they are in denial....

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[–] 62 points 1 week ago (6 children)

I can’t wait to find out what’s gonna happen to my retirement money because of these absolute fuckers.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    I mean, you could have your retirement shift towards long-term bonds instead of stocks. Normally I’d suggest index funds too, but those are all tied up in the bubble right now. You don’t need to just sit there and watch your money evaporate.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 days ago*

    I mean, you could have your retirement shift towards long-term bonds instead of stocks

    With the rise in the Federal Fund rates, that poster would be screwed with bonds too, much worse in fact. Previously issue long term bonds are today worth a fraction of what they were earlier this year.

    People won't buy your old bonds (at their lower interest rates) when the US Treasury is issuing new ones right now with much higher yields. You can still hold the bonds to maturity to get all of your money back, but if you need to sell your bonds on the secondary market right now for cash to live on (presumably for those already in retirement) you're going to take a sizable loss.

    Gold is significantly down too. 17% decline in value year-to-date.

    Residential real estate is down with the increase mortgage rates. Commercial real estate is in the toilet too since COVID really.

    The stock market, even with this recent dip, is actually actually outperforming most other traditional investments. The good news for folks with retirement savings who are still working is that no value is actually lost until you sell you investments (stocks/bonds/gold/whatever). If you're still a decade or more away from retirement thats a LONG time for a recover to bring back value from this current downturn.

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  • [–] 93 points 6 days ago (7 children)

    I sincerely hope that a few of the fascist tech bros get absolutely obliterated. If all of them were gone with the snapped of a finger the world would instantly be a better place.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    By 'obliterated' you mean 'bailed out' right?

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  • [–] 48 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

    I don't think a bail out would work (which isn't to say the Trump administration won't try it - you can never confidently predict they won't do something stupid). If they can't work out how to make a profit after $2T of capex, more money on the furnace isn't going to help.

    As much as the bank bailouts after 2008 left a bad taste in my mouth, banks are at least self evidently a profitable business that were able to successfully use the bailout to stay afloat.

    I could potentially see the AI companies' creditors getting a bailout but most of them seem to be private equity so a bailout would be really unpopular (although see my above comments on not betting against the current US leadership doing something stupid).

    On the bright side, there's a real chance we could see Larry Ellison go personally bankrupt. He lives on loans secured against Oracle shares and Oracle is currently indebted up to its eyeballs and borrowing at basically junk rates. If it goes down, those loans get called and he eats shit (to the delight of Sun Microsystems fans everywhere).

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago

    you can never confidently predict they won't do something stupid

    I'd argue you can predict they will do something stupid because that's basically all they've done ever since they took office

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    I doubt it. I could see something like OpenAI and Anthropic bought up by someone else. Google, MS, Oracle?

    I doubt any of these people will ever miss a meal or have no roof over their head.

    Even if these people were to be worth 1/100th of what they are worth now, they'd still be plenty comfortable.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 week ago

    🎶 LET IT POP, LET IT POP, LET IT TOUCH A PRICK AND POP! 🎶

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  • [–] 37 points 1 week ago

    don't stop i'm almost there

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  • [–] 59 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    I'm not really seeing a bloodbath, S&P 500 still up more than 10% YTD.

    If that is a bloodbath then what term are they going to use for an actual crash?

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  • [–] 13 points 6 days ago

    The AI sector has suffered losses to the tune of 20-59% over the last month or so.

    Yes some of them are still up YTD (some are even down YTD), but at the same time, the situation in 1929 was similarly less bad looking if you started from January of that year, but the graphs showing how bad it was in practice always start in September.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    Inb4 bailouts by the USA govt

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    They literally don't have enough money, even if they cut everything.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    What if we sold all the parks and most of the buildings to foreign nations and billionaires and their friends?

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  • [–] 5 points 6 days ago

    The land is infinitely more valuable than the buildings, the problem is you would have to be a total moron to buy it without congressional legislation, as the next president will just wipe his ass with the EO.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 week ago

    The longer you hold it off, the worse it's going to be.

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  • [–] 19 points 5 days ago
    [–] 17 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    Yeah, I don't know if "fear" is really the right word here... more like "anticipation"

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  • [–] 31 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

    The 2098 2008 crash was caused by the rate of mortgage growth beginning to slow. It was a confidence issue in MBS, similar to the AI bubble now. People are starting to lose confidence in their investments and wondering if it is still a good idea to buildout massive data centers.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    It was wild seeing the panic after DeepSeek. I have no idea what is propping it up after that.

    I think they hope to keep it going based on vibes and keeping hardware so expensive (for others) that companies don't opt to build their own local rigs to run a model that is probably "good enough" for a lot of tasks.

    AI is not going anywhere, but the speculative fictions around all this are going to look wild in the aftermath, IMHO. Like tulip-bulb mania stupid. The notion that everyone needs "frontier models" all the time for all tasks and is going to pay enough in fees to do it just seems crazy to me.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago

    I think they hope to keep it going based on vibes and keeping hardware so expensive (for others) that companies don't opt to build their own local rigs to run a model that is probably "good enough" for a lot of tasks.

    That didn’t occur to me. Makes sense tho. I sort of was wondering why companies hadn’t figured it out yet. Investment into running on your own hardware needs to be super expensive so they can sell you their AI service.

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  • [–] 11 points 5 days ago* (1 child)

    Many are now asking whether this hyperscale approach — in which tech monopolies build massive, energy-intensive data centers to fuel AI demand — is a sustainable approach, compared to one which deploys efficient and lightweight models for a fraction of the cost.

    For many investors at this point, the hyperscale approach simply has to work

    If they just believe hard enough it will come true and it will be their Xmas miracle.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    I very much doubt hyperscalers make much sense in the long term. I have no idea what the financials are (or what insider financial scheme they have cooked up).

    But when you experiment with smaller models on very much consumer hardware - Macbooks for instance - or when you look at how costs per 1M tokens has dropped over the years, I don't see how this massive, massive buildout makes any sense. When I hear Elon talking about building "compute in space" as almost a foregone concusion I wonder if he's not running a super-scam or if he has a head injury.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 days ago

    They've been pushing for the government to take a stake in AI companies so that when they go bankrupt it's no longer a private sector issue and they can justify a bailout. I am strongly against the government or taxpayers being involved. The AI should stay completely private sector so that when they go bankrupt they get NO BAILOUTS.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    looks like AI is slowling leaking out from the cyst rather than bursting.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 days ago (9 children)

    1970s: Microwaves are the stoves of the future!

    2010s: The Metaverse is the future!

    2020s: AI is the future!

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  • [–] 7 points 5 days ago* (2 children)

    Microwaves have been immensely successful though. In some countries >95% of all households have one. In the US they’re more common than cable TV ever was. They went through a boom in the 1980ies where that number shot up from 10%-ish to 80%-ish. If AI is like microwaves it’ll be considered essential in another 10 years.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 days ago

    If microwaves are the analogy for AI then I'm good with it. In my house today I have an oven, a stovetop, a counter top toaster oven/air fryer thingy, and a microwave. Each serves its own purpose but none replaces the other completely.

    If in the future AI is a tool that sits and waits it's turn for me to use it for the thing it is best at then I think it will have a place.

    If instead it costs a subscription fee, is forced into every other appliance, replaces jobs en mass, and accelerates the downfall of the climate I'm gonna pass.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 5 days ago* (3 children)

    No one ever believed in the Metaverse except one very rich weirdo. Blockchain and cryptocurrencies were the 2010s' really big hype wave.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    I think people were making fun of the metaverse pretty much the day of the announcement.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    Heck, it was already beaten to the punch by VR Chat and arguably 2nd Life eons before. He clearly just needed some 'big new concept' to pitch to investors about how they could 10x in two years after FB users flatlined

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    What I found bizarre - and I didn't see anyone commenting on this, although I can hardly be the only one that noticed - is how much the character design reminded me of the Wii aesthetic? Not really sure why.

    Also, it was not even an original name. I realize most of these asshats lift most their ideas from sci-fi, but since I actually liked fiction like Snow Crash, I was annoyed by that, as well.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    what are you guys making for dinner tonight?

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    I think I'll hold off investing in my index fund for a while longer lol

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  • [–] 6 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

    I can understand being wary about the stock market right now. However, inflation is at 3.7% right now for the year up from 3.4%. You can continue hold onto your money, but it buys approximately 3.7% less than it did in January 12 months ago overall. If you'd put that money into the market in Jan 1 a year ago instead of having 3.7% less, you'd have a 6.82% more now, but you can't go back in time with that knowledge to do that.

    If you're looking to park your money safely without having it eaten up by inflation, currently US short term (4-weeks long) treasury bills are paying a bit more than 3.9%. .2% profit is not much profit, but its better than a 3.7% loss in value.

    edit: corrected specifics, thank you @boonhet@sopuli.xyz

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  • [–] 5 points 6 days ago* (1 child)

    To be clear that 3.7% is the 12 months ending in September, not January through October. Inflation is rarely measured YTD, it's usually the trailing 12 months

    Meaning the

    but it buys approximately 3.7% less than it did in January overall.

    part of your comment is inaccurate

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    Yea in the US, in Romania it's even worse... Our last recorded inflation was 6.5% for september... In May it was 9.7%...

    I need to figure out a way to keep my money... Though I at least converted it to Euro. I will probably park it in some sort of short term EU treasuries, tho I've no idea if those are any good... I'll see.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    People looking forward to this don't realize how much all of us will get so fucked by an actual implosion.

    It won't be Musk, Altman, etc who really suffer.

    Also, a few tech stocks went down in the day's trading, but even those are up (way up) YTD, so I guess we'll see what happens.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    The longer the scam goes on, the more it hurts everyone. The sooner it pops, the better.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago

    Yeah, probably true. There is a way a responsible admin might try to orchestrate a softer landing. The assholes in this administration are not the least bit responsible.

    I'm just remembering two things:

    1. The people that could not wait for the dot-com bubble to burst. That was extremely painful in the job market if you were even tangentially related to dot-com.

    2. Same thing for people that could not wait for the inflated house prices to drop. Also, extremely painful, for nearly everyone.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 week ago

    Let it fucking burn.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 days ago
    [–] 11 points 6 days ago

    In China, the AI bubble has already burst

    .... The meltdown, tanking the mainland STAR50 index of AI and semiconductor leaders by 40% in less than four months and vaporising some $480 billion in market value, is an ill omen for wobbly world markets and a dampener on China's efforts at encouraging its savers into stocks to fund the AI boom.

    ... With AI stocks running to 42% of China's market capitalisation and 57% of turnover across mainland-listed A-shares and Hong Kong's H-shares, according to Goldman Sachs, few in a market dominated by small investors have escaped pain.

    ... Shares in robot-maker Unitree, 8,000 times oversubscribed by retail buyers at listing, have halved since they started trading in August, and chipmaker CXMT has lost more than a quarter of its value in the past month.

    ... Chipmakers MetaX Integrated Circuits and Moore Threads Technology, which leapt 700% and 400% respectively on their market debuts last year, have also halved in value since July.

    ... Frustration that an investment theme backed by Beijing has ended so badly has driven many investors into defensive assets and is likely to slow equity fundraising by tech firms.

    A remarkable detail in China, citing the report:

    The frenzy and its fallout contrast with a push by authorities to improve returns and dampen volatility by cracking down on leverage and high-frequency trading. State-backed investors were sellers into rallies to keep gains in check.

    [Emphasis mine.]

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    Don't tease me

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    The bubble is always Wall Street

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    "Spikes hope", you mean

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago (5 children)

    If that bubble ever bursts i want more ethical AI models and approaches.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 days ago (4 children)

    All we’re gonna see is bailouts, consolidation, and the rest of us lose our savings.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 days ago (1 child)

    I could see both. If the AI bubble really pops, used hardware may be available for pennies on the dollar. People and companies may be able to run local models for much less.

    But yeah, I could see a lot of us hurting in other ways, even if models get more efficient and more local.

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  • These companies have no such consciousness about the hardware. I’ve seen video after video where they just pay some scrapper to come in and crush everything for recycling rather than pay some company to come in, sort, process and list everything for sale or auction.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago

    Will there be a lot of tech layoffs Monday?

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