Some of the ports we're seeing in the retro handheld community lately have been great, and I love seeing developers push these little devices beyond what they were ever intended to do. But I've definitely noticed what feels like a growing amount of 'port-slop', with new projects appearing seemingly every few hours, many of them feeling more like quick experiments than anything particularly worthwhile.

I'm not against the experimentation at all, but I do wonder if we're reaching a point where quantity is starting to overshadow quality. Anyway, I put together a short opinion piece about it, just my own thoughts on something I've been noticing lately, especially here with my favorite old system: the PSP.

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[–] 84 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

Thank you for calling out the port slop. Decompilations and reverse engineering projects used to be worthwhile and exciting and now it’s become an ocean of half baked Claude code projects with no contributors and no base to stand on.

I’m glad we got big ones like SM64 and OOT before the vibe coding craze, now I see a recompilation or port and it doesn’t even register now

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  • [–] 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (8 children)

    What are some other good ones?

    I know of these:

    • Majora's Mask
    • Banjo Kazooie
    • A Link to the past (Technically a disassembly, ports to C and Zig)
    • Twilight Princess (arguably, since that one is flooded with vibe-coded mods)
    • Star Fox 64
    • James Bond: The world is not enough
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  • [–] 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    The Jak and Daxter trilogy (OpenGoal).

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Every discussion, issue, and pull request is read and reviewed by humans (and sometimes machines, too). It is a boundary point at which people interact with each other and the work done. It is rude and disrespectful to approach this boundary with low-effort, unqualified work, since it puts the burden of validation on the maintainer.

    https://opengoal.dev/docs/contributing/ai_policy

    Based

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)
  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Absolutely. I am also thankful for it. I've been shitting on these projects, and at least people here seem to be more against them, but holy shit, on Reddit, the mainstream subs at least (PCMR cough), they absolutely love these slop projects. Any slop project really, but especially the recomps and PS5 emus / translators.

    Some projects try to hide their vibecoding, then you dig through their commit history and see first commits with like 20k to 50k lines, and the project being quite new as well. People really love this KytyPS5 emu / translation layer (not retro, I know, just mentioning it). Guess what, it has the highest line count of any first commit I have ever seen, 200k lines. Project has only been a thing since Jul 16 of this year. You can't make this shit up. https://github.com/KytyPS5/KytyPS5/commit/147188b143f67c27d8da396e759c19336f64c105

    To me, is the clearest indicator of vibecoding, if they are trying to hide it at least. If you are undertaking a serious project and not immediately creating at least a local git repo from the very first couple lines, this shit is straight outta Claude. Keep in mind Github is just a place to host git repos. Any history before adding a remote obviously stays and will be visible. These guys are legit creating their repos only when have tens of thousands of lines already. How about managing history from the start? Vibecoded.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    Yeah, and when it comes to brand new accounts churning these out quickly you don't know if they are safe, and don't have something malicious sunk into compared to projects with more people involved.

    Decompilations are still exciting, but I'm not rushing out to try out every new PC port of a console game either that came out from someone with no history to have gained some trust.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    My interest and excitement for recomps etc has almost disappeared now :(

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  • [–] 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I had noticed it a lot on the PSVita subreddit, and it bothered me. Sure the first time you see it, it might be interesting from a technical perspective, but aside from that what's the point? You learn nothing as a developer and you leave nothing meaningful to the community.

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  • [–] [S] 14 points 2 weeks ago

    It just depresses me. I really enjoyed visiting the PSP sub-reddit, if only to see hardware collections, see the odd interesting story. Now it is filled with slop. The last week or two I just stopped even looking

    Being so tightly woven in with the retro handheld scene, I know for a fact that 99% of the devs (apps, emulators, front-ends and the like) all make use of it in some way or another. The difference is that they're using it as a tool. These port-slop games are just so pointless

    It all makes me sad

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  • [–] 15 points 2 weeks ago*

    There's more questions to ask beyond "who is playing the recomps/decomps"

    Regardless of AI, these questions pop up:

    • What is the use case?
    • Is it worth spending my time and energy as a developer (or from developer's perspective) doing this?
    • Who is this for? (Same question as before, yes)

    Even before the AI boom, I asked these questions. Some games are indeed an enigma (Sonic Unleashed is a perfect example), but a lot of others are just... there I guess.

    Don't get me wrong, it's nice to get a better version on PC with keyboard and mouse support and better graphics and undefined aspect ratios, that's all fine. But you have to understand one thing and one really big thing - not all games need or even deserve this treatment. A lot of people are just fine with what an emulator offers already.

    If you think that "oh all of those features are impossible or really hard to do without a recomp" - think again. I can tell you from first hand experience as a reverse engineer and developer that you can do a lot of those things without doing a decomp (and especially a recomp). All on the original hardware's limitations sometimes, too. It's provably quicker and easier to do (some of) those hacks on top of existing games rather than recompile it.

    As for the "broken games in emulators but are fine in recomps" - those fixes and hacks should've been presented to the emulator project first because it can not only fix this one game, but sometimes fix others too.

    Ports onto platforms like PSP or iOS sure are nice to have, but be honest - it's not the best way to play these games. It's not even a good way to play it portably a lot of the times either. A lot of the times, those same people have other means to play them too. I don't think most gamers even care about an hour or two of extra battery life playing the game because it's more power efficient than running the emulator.

    The more and more you think about this, the more irrational it becomes to spend time and energy on doing these things.

    And to a certain degree - it always was. It was always a "just because you can" type of deal. Some were doing it for clout (even before AI, yes, there are talented people who also are obnoxious doing it), some for the love of the game, etc.

    Now - you just have a lot of people doing it for clout and opening up dono pages in ko-fi and patreon. To them, this isn't a hobby. It's a business venture. It's a job. And that is where the spirit of doing this kind of thing is undeniably and truly lost.

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  • [+] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)
  • [–] [S] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Calling any member "fucking stupid" is ridiculous, we're here to foster a community. if you disagree with someone's opinion, there are far more mature ways to express your discontent than this.

    Moreover calling a moderator "fucking stupid" then fabricating a quote is just a sure-fire way to end up with a ban. Which is what you have here.

    I'd recommend reflecting on the way you approach a conversation on Lemmy. I see you're a new user, so keep this in mind on other communities here.

    Ban issued.

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  • 25 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 30 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    AI isn't the problem on its own

    I can accept a plagiarism machine that is exaberatting multiple international crises, but I draw the line at too many posts on a subreddit!

    like c'mon, i'm also frustrated at what's going on in retro dev communities, but that's small potatoes compared to just about everything else concerning LLMs

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  • [–] 15 points 2 weeks ago

    I agree but the silver lining here is that more geeks finally see what artists, writers and musicians had been complaining about for years. It took sucking the soul out of gaming and games preservation to finally convince a specific subset of the nerddom that, no, AI actually fucking sucks.

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  • [–] 25 points 2 weeks ago*

    The incessant oversupply of vibe-coded decomps/recomps/ports comes from the same sense of entitlement as people going around emulator communities asking for free games.

    Those people finally found someone who wouldn't say "no," and that someone was Claude. They're the "give me something" or "make me something" crowd, and they never had high standards or shame in the first place.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    All of F(L)OSS has a slop problem right now.

    Everything has a slop problem right now.

    I can't even take part in any pro/contra AI-assisted coding (see, I'm trying to be polite) discussions because whenever I admit that the other person has a point, I remember AI's political, social and environmental impact, and i'm back to nope. And I can't separate local models from all that, not completely. Maybe in 10 years when US corporate fascism is quenched for good.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    I have executive disfunction (in other words, willpower always at critical low), I can't afford complacency to use these tools. I might get something done once or twice and then start erring too much.

    It's abstractly fascinating to have a computer system that generates complex working code.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I read "port slop" and said "yeah, it's called UDP, but that's not new, why is there an article about it? click...oh."

    /facepalm

    I need to stop browsing before I've had caffeine.

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  • [–] [S] 14 points 2 weeks ago

    Some of the ports we're seeing in the retro handheld community lately have been great, and I love seeing developers push these little devices beyond what they were ever intended to do. But I've definitely noticed what feels like a growing amount of 'port-slop', with new projects appearing seemingly every few hours, many of them feeling more like quick experiments than anything particularly worthwhile.

    I'm not against the experimentation at all, but I do wonder if we're reaching a point where quantity is starting to overshadow quality. Anyway, I put together a short opinion piece about it, just my own thoughts on something I've been noticing lately, especially here with my favorite old system: the PSP.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    There’s so many established emulators on PC that I don’t understand the issue. If you wanna actually play it, why not play it on the intended console it released for?

    Are there not established repos for PSP gaming? I don’t really know how you’re supposed to get new psp games unless you’re burning them to those tiny discs yourself.

    Is it difficult to avoid these quick demos / proof of concept ports? I have no experience (or desire) to go into the physical realm of retro gaming, emulators are good enough for me.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    They totally miss retro appeal and hobbies.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    I did give the rea plugin a spin yesterday to restore the source for something I made in the 90s where I only had a partial backup of an old version of the code. It was able to get to a byte identical artefact but built with GNU as and all the artefacts split out into pngs.

    It took a few hours for something that would have taken me days if I'd be actually been inclined to spend the time. I can totally see the appeal of offloading a boring and laborious task to an LLM agent that will just chug through the stages.

    But what is the purpose of these decomps once done. Are they intending to do something interesting with the result? Study, tweak, remix?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    genuine question, how did you know it was byte identical if you only had a partial backup ?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    I only had a partial backup of the original assembly. It turned out it was slightly out of date compared to the shipped binary which is archived on various scene servers. The target for the agent was for the build to be byte identical with the scene archive which did necessitate a few macros to coerce GNU as to do what DevPac would do.

    The additions the agent identified vaguely tickled my memory of things I had fixed but this was something I originally wrote when I was a teenager in the 90s 😅

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  • [–] 21 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    How many of the games were worth playing on the original platform?

    This is a form of preservation. Let people enjoy things.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    The effort it took to port a game used to guarantee that any game someone took the time and care to port would be a great game. That filter's gone now, but even bad games should be of interest to historians.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    Storing a childs' tracing of the mona lisa in a vault is a form of preservation, doesn't make it useful outside of very specific contexts.

    That's hyperbole of course, but slop conversions are a facsimile of greatly varying quality.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago*

    I played AAI2 (the Capcom localization) on DS and the translation was vibecoded. Thousands of lines of Python (to do what?) just to replace some dialog. It kept crashing through different episodes but I’d reload my (last) save and play through the last half hour again, to then battle through a few crashes and then eventually proceed. I’m not sure I would bother with vibecoded stuff anymore.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    G*mers are ok with AI if it allows piracy.

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  • 5 comments in c/retrogaming@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Thank you for writing and posting this. I'm not huge in the scene but have noticed a large amount of posts in this community claiming XYZ game from 30+ years ago has been emulated. Recently there was the post here from the guy that recreated "Z" (a game I admittedly had not heard of), and he responded to every comment in the thread, accept the one asking if AI was used to port it. Like, if you used AI, just say you did! I'm not vehemently against it in the right application and recreating an old game seems like a decent use case for it. But the fact that they shied away from the question says that not only was it made using AI, it was probably entirely made with AI and barely tested.

    I used to see a headline saying that a game had been recreated, and immediately think "hell yeah" and move on. I don't think that I have ever installed one of these games and actually played them before. With the rise of AI development, I don't even get the blip of excitement anymore, I just say "neat", assume some people are really happy to play a childhood favorite, and that's it.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    It has turned from a drip to a flood of these. I've seen so many niche-niche communities get inundated with these half-baked 'ports' or projects. It is the same thing each and every time. Someone puts in the tiniest amount of 'work' (they prompt Claude), show off the title screen or a minute of gameplay, release it and then immediately move on to the next one.

    I'd be stunned if a single person on the PSP side specifically has even finished a single of of these ports. I'm just sad. Maybe this is the future, but I loved the admittedly quiet spaces which just had die-hard fans, not this port-slop

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I'm wishing you well on covering the good sides of the retro gaming hobby, and weathering these flood of AI slopware. It's one thing for me as a passive enjoyer to just see some of them and ignore. It must be hella exhausting to see something interestingly niche pop up and found out it's going to be abandoned slopware in a short time.

    I've enjoyed all the posts you shared here and on the other site, to get differing views.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    Thabk you Jaygray!

    That's really kind of you, to not only read my regular articles but my (newish) NeoCities experiment. That means a lot!

    This whole new rapidly changing world is a lot. A lot to see happen so quickly. I feel for some of the talented dev teams I know, because things are changing so darned quickly now :(

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    I'm mixed on it. On the one hand, it's AI and ruins shit, but on the other hand, it is really helping some of these retro projects get done, and some of them are pretty good quality....

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