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[–] 89 points 2 weeks ago (19 children)

They searched for four or five hours and seized 17 items, including phones, notebooks, a Somali language children’s book and a vintage camera that her husband had received as a gift, she said.

A children’s book, really?

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  • [–] 25 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    A children’s book, really?

    It's obviously a bomb making guide! I mean, they can't read it, so it must be true!

    (/s just in case, can never be too sure these days...)

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  • [+] -10 points 2 weeks ago (12 children)

    Ilhan Omar received her citizenship as a dependent minor child when her father was naturalized. She was, in fact, 17 years old when this happened.

    The governments theory of the investigation is that she lied about her age, and she was really 18 at the time. If that were true, then she would not be eligible for automatic derived citizenship, and she would have needed to do her own naturalization.

    To be clear, this age thing is a bonkers Internet conspiracy theory. But an old children's book might conceivably be relevant.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Imagine being a human being from the future reading this shit. What they did to this woman just for a piece of paper, a year of difference or whatever lies and nonsense is being made up too.

    It is almost on the same level as chopping the arm off a thief who stole some bread to survive. What a bunch of exaggerated inhumane stupid rules written by the Jeffrey Epstein Class. Why the fuck are we still respecting them at all?

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  • [–] 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

    Unless her dad wrote “dedicated to my loving daughter whom knowingly allowed me to file a fraudulent immigration document on her behalf” then I don’t think it is relevant. From what I have read it’s not even a problem if it was filed while she was 18 provided she had no knowledge of her late father’s actions.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    I'm thinking a book might have a publication date or a printing date on it somewhere. There's a remote chance that would provide some loose circumstantial evidence as to ages.

    From what I have read it’s not even a problem if it was filed while she was 18 provided she had no knowledge of her late father’s actions.

    Lack of knowledge might insulate Ilhan from criminal charges. But because she has derived citizenship, she can lose the derivation in a civil process if it is proven that she was really 18. In that case she reverts to her previous status of lawful permanent resident. There's no statute of limitations on the civil side.

    If she is found to have never received citizenship, she will probably not be eligible serve as a representative.

    (Yes. The immigration laws of this country are fucked up.)

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    But, like, you can just buy books anytime. I mean I can go into a bookstore right now and buy any book in the place, even the kids section, and not even have to show id. If I go out and get some milk, it isnt even circumstantial evidence that I milked a cow.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago

    I agree. But at this stage they're not trying to get the exhibit admitted into evidence. They really just need to match it against one of the categories of items listed in the search warrant.

    (Warrants shall describe the "place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.")

    She has also challenged the warrant, trying to get her stuff back. I haven't looked into the details on that.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    I’m thinking a book might have a publication date or a printing date on it somewhere. There’s a remote chance that would provide some loose circumstantial evidence as to ages.

    Beyond the fact that yes, Ilhan Omar was a child herself once upon a time, she has three children of her own.

    "The circle of suspects grows wider, Sherlock. Any one -- or even all -- of those people might be the true owner!"

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  • [–] 17 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    But an old children’s book might conceivably be relevant.

    lmfao

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Imagine you're a fascist. That's what this commenter is doing, putting themselves in the shoes of the feds to understand their mentality. They're getting downvoted for it because Lemmy. They don't actually hold this view.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Maybe, just maybe, they’re getting downvoted because people are tired of “benefit of the doubt” or speculative justifications for fascists.

    Maybe people have, reasonably, decided that actions taken by this administration should be considered petty, punitive and unlawful unless and until they can provide evidence to the contrary.

    The commenter may not hold the view but they are tacitly supporting fascistic behavior.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    I'm not one to defend Lemmy's downvoting behavior, but let's put ourselves in the shoes of an antifa to understand their mentality. OP didn't say anything other than "conceive the inconceivable". They could have suggested anything, like maybe the book had her birthday in it. Or maybe the FBI can't read and thought it was an ANTIFA strategy book. Anything to help conceive the inconceivable. I also have doubts that the judge approved taking a children's book, and likely approved retrieving birth certificate documentation. But we know the mind of a fascist, and they will self-justify every action to achieve their goals.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 weeks ago

    Eh no, she's a political opponent of Trump and also has the kind of skin color he specifically dislikes. That's a much clearer reason than a children book alleging someone was 18 years old at some point in the past.

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  • [–] [S] 123 points 2 weeks ago

    So it's never a great day when a woman duly elected into office has to behave like a domestic violence victim because of the fascist actions perpetrated by the very government she works with.

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  • [–] 25 points 2 weeks ago

    They bugged the shit out of that place.

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  • [–] 50 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Smart move. The next raid is going to do more than just scare her.

    For clarity, I'm on her side. She shouldn't have to move. But reality being what it is, it's the most prudent choice.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    You know if they had anything it would be given out with their marching orders a long time ago. Probably a smart move not to go back into a house that's probably bugged and under constant surveillance

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  • [–] 19 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    I wonder if military base housing would be safer or less safe for her. Starting to wonder when the career military folks who spent their lives and watched friends sacrifice theirs to fight the ongoing cold war conflicts are going to realize Donnie has betrayed them.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago

    They betrayed us before Donnie ever had the chance. They happily signed up to go abroad and spread the idea that America is fueled by nothing but oil and hate. I would love to see military recruitment take a sharp dive when we declare nonsensical wars or "military operations" à la Russia, but it never does. The second they signed up to be an international symbol of how little Americans care about anyone but ourselves they planted their flag on Trumps side, even before he stood there.

    The military is full of conservatives, but even those that claim not to be gladly work shoulder to shoulder with people who wake up excited to do war crimes. They're not going to do anything because they either support this or never cared in the first place.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

    Not sure what that's going to gain her... Though I believe having a bunch of FBI Peckerwoods roaming through her home is very violating...

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  • [–] 49 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    Living in a home that isn't bugged.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    This was my first thought as well. I wouldn't trust my furniture or really anything either, though. Shit could be as small as a crumb with tech these days

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I'm reminded of that X-Files episode where Mulder tears his entire apartment to shreds and finds one tiny bug inside his electrical outlet by the window.

    We really have no idea just how camouflaged or small these things can be nowadays.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    The really fun ones are when they don't have any physical bug at all, like laser microphones, or using microwave imaging (EM, not the appliance) to watch people through the wall. There are x-ray systems entirely contained in the back of a box truck, too.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Very good point... But they'll just raid that one too...

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Will they? It's important to remember, the admin are basically influencers. They think in news cycles, and are extremely sensitive to the reaction they're getting

    They'll might push the legal side further if they don't get a big reaction... Steve Miller is a sick fuck and his nipples get hard deporting anyone, especially if it's cruel. But after the failed ice invasion, Trump and Co aren't letting him lead anything high profile

    As this drops out of the news cycle, they're going to move onto the next performative vice signal. Trump will get bored, and this will go way on the back burner. The Trump sycophants will look for the next thing to get Grandpa to care about them for a minute, and the people with political ambitions behind Trump won't touch this with a 10 foot pole if Trump isn't spearheading it

    I highly doubt they'll keep up a police harassment campaign against Omar, because that's just not how they function. The leadership are literally television people, and it wouldn't make for good content

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  • [–] 30 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    It'll get her an address fewer people know.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Yeah this has to be part of it. A raid like this isn't just a raid, it also signals that any protection of her by the law from others has been withdrawn. So any asshole with a gun could (and according to the stale Cheeto should) cause her problems. Being effectively doxxed by the government isn't a great position from an opsec standpoint.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago

    Can't say I blame her.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)
  • [–] 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    She's a congresswomen. She can't leave, we could do without a lot of Congress members, but we do need her specifically

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    She actually gives a shit about her constituents and real problems, as opposed to many on the hill who actually seem to hate their constituents and do not give a fraction of a damn whether people can eat, for example, or have clean water to drink.

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  • 49 comments in c/politics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 156 points 2 weeks ago* (4 children)

    Probably a good idea also because I wouldn't trust any longer that the DHS or FBI wouldn't plant listening devices during the raid, based on some unconstitutional legal theory in a memo written by a first year MAGA law student using ChatGPT.

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  • [–] 52 points 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    What even would a search be good for? Lets just play with the scenario here, and assume they have good intentions. They don't, but now we're in make-believe-land for a second. The dipsshits think she did something wrong years ago filing paperwork wrong or whatever the excuse is. Who would keep the proof of their wrongdoings for years afterwards? "I better save these documents forever, that could undeniably get me deported due to my wrongdoings".

    Even under the most generous of circumstances, raiding her home makes no sense.

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  • [–] 67 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (5 children)

    I think it's worse than that. She immigrated to the USA at 12 and naturalized at 17. She doesn't have any reason to be searched under the pre-tenses they've given. She was a minor when she immigrated and a minor when she was naturalized.

    They want to: 1) Intimidate her and 2) Find some unrelated "gotcha" to remove her from Congress.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    They are currently looking into such a gotcha. One of the avenues is that they want to find some sort of criminal conspiracy in her father's status, revoke it posthumasly, then strip her citizenship over a technicality.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Then she’s not eligible for congress again until she’s been a citizen for 7 years. Assuming they don’t immediately send her to some unrelated country the minute it’s been stripped.

    I hope the Dems win, and have the balls to actually stop this shit. Or we’re all even more fucked than now.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago

    The conspiracy theory is that she was 18 when her father was naturalized and he lied about her age. He claimed she was 17 so she would also get citizenship. If they can prove she was 18 she would lose her citizenship. My guess is they were looking for some birth certificate or other documents that would show her "true" age.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    It makes no sense because they don't have good intentions. If you assume they have bad intentions, then the search is obviously part of their method of intimidation and harassment of a political opponent and makes perfect sense from their twisted and disgusting perspective.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    Lets just play with the scenario here, and assume they have good intentions. They don’t, but now we’re in make-believe-land for a second.

    It makes no sense because they don’t have good intentions.

    Why is it so hard for people to go along with a hypothetical?

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  • [–] 30 points 2 weeks ago

    No longer feels safe in her own home or her country.

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  • [–] 26 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Conservatives need to be removed from our country. Every. Single. One.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    MAGA is a Domestic Terrorist Organization (by their own admission), and a serious, ongoing, enthusiastic National Security Threat, with a record of violence and treason. As such, they can be prohibited from existing without violating the 1st Amendment.

    Further, those who participated in the January 6 Insurrection, are prohibited from holding office per the 14th Amendment/Section 3. That would include anyone who has ever claimed the 2020 election was stolen, since that was the premise of the Insurrection.

    Therefore, all those MAGA elected officials must resign their posts, and they can't be replaced by anyone who has ever shown loyalty to MAGA. A new conservative movent will have to begin, one without any connection to MAGA or the Insurrection, and a strong party commitment to avoid MAGA tenets. Good luck with that. We will be busy for the next half century, forcing the right to behave themselves like actual citizens, instead of pirates.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    Id be worried they tried to bug her place as well

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)
  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Sure but at least I know the bugs. I throw my phone in the closet and unplug the Ethernet cable. My car is stupid so no problem there.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    If they really want you can detect audio through walls and window vibration and some keyboard and computer activity from power line.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    I'm aware but there are still ways to if not counter then dilute the ability for said connection, thick enough curtains for example or even a battery powered surge protector for example. But rarely are such things needed, you've basically got to get to Soviet vs US levels of bullshit spycraft to do that. Mind you Ilhan Omar should probably be factoring that in but it's probably not priority.

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  • [–] 68 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

    I mean that was the point. It was obviously for intimidation and it worked. So... Mission accomplished....

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  • [–] 47 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    I would worry they bugged my home if I was her. I'm not sure the move is over intimidation, but lack of trust/security in the current place.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Why not both?

    I don’t see how it’s not intimidation as a main point. She was granted citizenship at 17. Even if we suppose the claims true, she was not an adult: any mistakes would be on her parents

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago

    I mean, the assault on her citizenship is an intimidation tactic, I'm just saying her moving isn't necessarily her giving into the intimidation. It doesn't sound like shes backing down from the fight in any meaningful way, so moving seems more about control than anything else.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    They're trying to argue that her father (deceased) committed immigration fraud by misstating her age, making his citizenship invalid, and therefore hers also, as it resulted from his fraud. It's an absolutely idiotic argument for many reasons, and would never stand up in court, which leaves intimidation as the main point.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    That was only one of the goals. They really do want to find a way to arrest or deport her.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    Technically I think the rules say that if you make the tiniest error it could invalidate it. The SCOTUS rulings don't say that but if sent to them now they could change that. That's usually based on discretion and a judges opinion, why having fascist toadies in all the steps is a big deal. There's multiple steps with different judges having opportunity to pause it, so this probably won't happen. But it's enough to wreck a regular person's life even without final denaturalization.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    I'm worried that this is just them testing how far they can go.
    January really worries me.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    They know that if they lose power in 2029, they are all going to prison. Possibly worse, for some. So they can't allow an election in 2028. In order to do that, they will have to employ serious violence against the American people.

    They will either crush us, or they will be crushed. MAGA understands this far better than Democrats, and they are prepared to do whatever it takes.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Going to prison... Ha ha fat chance that will happen. We all hope that will happen but I feel like that is a pipe dream in this country. There won't be any accountability or consequences for these people. Love your optimism though.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    In 1860 the Confederacy seceded from the United States and unequivocally committed sedition and high treason.

    In 1865 after the U.S. Civil War, the U.S. government largely paroled, pardoned, and politically restricted Confederate officers rather than executing them or holding mass treason trials.

    I’m of two minds.

    My heart says we tried going easy on these people once, and now their ancestors are doing it again, so maybe we will come down harder this time…

    My mind says our economy and government are far more corrupt than they were back then, and our citizenry are far more comfortable and entertained.

    We should make an example of these fucking traitors… but will we?

    That depends on what the people with all the money decide.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Nah, the democrats will come out with some shit about how they're not going to prosecute anyone from the previous administration in the name of reconciliation and bringing the country together, or some such bullshit. Wouldn't be the first time.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago*

    As the others have said…who’s gunna put them in prison? If people actually get out there and vote progressive then MAYBE, but as it stands the GOP is just chasing power for the power, that’s all.

    Trump is literally guilty of dozens of felonies and a judge said “yea but he wants to hold the highest office in the land so I’m gunna let him go.”

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I am guessing that she would end up living in NYC or California, strongholds against the MAGA menace. That way, when the straw finally shatters the camel's back, Omar will be able to continue being a leader. If she stayed in neutral or unfriendly territory, she could be captured or worse.

    We know what ICE does to little girls and women in their "care". There is no question what they would do to her, if given the opportunity.

    Here's hoping that Omar will be the Winston Churchill of our time, in the best ways.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    She can't represent her constituents if she doesn't live in Minnesota. It is a stronghold of people just like her, that is why they vote her in.

    She is a leader and will continue to be one but she can't be a Winston Churchill because she can't be president that can be a good thing though, a president with good ideas only stays two terms if they are lucky. She could be a senator one day and keep in power for as long as terms limits allow. Term limits she would impose on all senators and congresspeople as they should.

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