Man, maybe University of Minnesota had a point.
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this is going to increase in frequency as linux gains popularity
To be fair the AUR is known to be very susceptible to that kind of thing due to the effective absence of entry requirements.
Absolutely.
The Arch User Repository is a way for anyone to easily distribite software.
Hence it has never been secure, and rather than claim it is, you mostly see people and documentation warn you about this, and to be careful if using it.
Any schmuck can make whatever they want available via the AUR. That's how even the tiniest niche project can often be installed via the AUR. But you trade in some security for that convenience.
It shouldn't be used as a marketplace, it should be used as a repository. You can probably find a lot of malware on GitHub, doesn't mean you go there to choose your text editor.
I never search the AUR directly, I only use it if some README tells me I can install their software via an AUR package.
Yeah, I search the AUR not to discover packages, but to see if something I want to install is in there, if it is I check the PKGBUILD and make sure none of the sources/commands/patches are suspicious.
People need to remember it's not some carefully vetted app store and that they need to be the ones vetting any packages they install and any changes when updating.
We are getting to the point where inviting more people in means we will need an automated babysitter to watch for this shit and to pull it once it’s discovered. Apple has a walled garden approach that’s certainly taken a big chunk of malware threats out of their devices but their walled garden approach is ridiculous and impractical for Linux. The Microsoft method of monitoring and second guessing everything with antimalware programs is also suspect because it is super easy to abuse and resource intensive. We have clamAV but clam kinda sucks.
Linux is at the point where we need something that audits what’s going in and automatically yanks it back out remotely if it’s found to be a problem. Things can only be added by the user, but the bot can remove them without interaction of the user.
I don’t see this happening though. Instead, I see this as more of a rust vs C thing all over again, where valid critiques are drowned out by “improve your skills bro.”
This is technically not Arch's fault btw. I use Arch but don't use AUR for this reason
Also same problem adding random PPA's on Debian and Ubuntu.
It has already happened a few times with other repos. Although AUR is especially susceptible because there's no vetting at all, it's a free-for-all that everyone can publish to within a few clicks. This will for sure happen again within a couple months, but better hidden the next time.
Oh definitely, I wasn't trying to correct you or anything. Just having conversation
I kinda watch the Arch devs packaged more stuff rather then relying on thr aur,Chaotic-aur (third party repo) solves mostly.
The arch maintainers package more software than most other distributions. Some items they leave in the AUR by choice, if the Dev prefers it there. The key is to use the AUR sparingly and only if you trust the packager.
The arch maintainers package more software than most other distributions.
Sorry, but I fail to see this.
I suppose if you're accounting literally all independent distros, then you're probably right. However, if we'd be more realistic and compare it to other well-established independent distros^[I'm basically counting Alpine, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, openSUSE, Slackware, Solus and Void. I didn't count Guix System and NixOS for how their 'repositories' are built different and therefore not easily comparable to the others.], then we notice that the vastness of the packages found in Arch's repository is rather lackluster at the very least. Heck, by virtually all metrics, Arch together with its derivatives undoubtedly belong in the upper echelons of usage stats; only being second to the Debian-family of distros. IMO, however, the size of its repository absolutely doesn't reflect this; as it's only bigger than Slackware, Solus and Void. The inclusion of these smaller projects is arguably charitable on my side*. But to drive the point home very clearly: Arch's repository is smaller than Alpine's, Debian's, Fedora's, openSUSE's and Gentoo's with a ratio of (about) two to one (except for openSUSE).
I don't know if raw package counts is the best comparison. Unlike say Fedora, Arch bundles everything related to a project in the same file. If you want Qt6-base on Arch, that is one package. If you want it on Fedora, it is going to have a lib, header, docs, and maybe a few other packages.
Just from personal experience, I do not have issues with finding packages in the main repos, with only a handful of my packages coming from the AUR. This is not the case with others, like Fedora where extra repos need to be added, like EPEL and RPM Fusion.
Thank you for the quick response!
I don't know if raw package counts is the best comparison.
You're probably right. Do you think we got anything better to go by?
Unlike say Fedora, Arch bundles everything related to a project in the same file. If you want Qt6-base on Arch, that is one package. If you want it on Fedora, it is going to have a lib, header, docs, and maybe a few other packages.
Can't comment on this. Though, the list of packages with qt6 in their name is considerably longer in Fedora. However, I wonder if this simply reflects that Fedora, by virtue of having a larger repository, also has more stuff related to qt6. Or, as you posited it, chooses to package the same content over multiple packages instead of bundling them like it's supposedly happening on Arch.
Just from personal experience, I do not have issues with finding packages in the main repos, with only a handful of my packages coming from the AUR. This is not the case with others, like Fedora where extra repos need to be added, like EPEL and RPM Fusion.
Hmm..., I feel you might be conflating stuff. Please allow me to elaborate on what I mean.
Fedora is not able to include some packages in its own repository due to legal reasons. As such, these are relayed to RPM Fusion instead. Which means that a well-functioning Fedora installation (almost necessarily) desires to install some packages from RPM Fusion. So, RPM Fusion exists as a 'hack' of sorts to protect Fedora from legal charges and NOT because they're too lazy (or something) to ship those packages themselves. To be clear, RPM Fusion is accepted as a trusted third-party repository.
Arch, on the other hand, is rather lenient on what they can include in their repositories. Basically enabling them to package within their repositories all codecs and whatnot without them being visibly worried about the legal consequences of this ordeal.
To be honest, I don't know exactly where this discrepancy comes from. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's related to how Arch is basically a genuine community distro while Fedora has official ties to Red Hat.
Btw, small correction, AFAIK you're not supposed to install packages from the EPEL on Fedora. Perhaps you meant COPR (basically Fedora's AUR) or Terra instead?
Ok thanks, I never knew they package more stuff on the stock repos.
minecraft-cracked
Gotta assume that if any Arch users actually fell for that one, that they either let their kids use their device or they're generally not smart ( which absolutely goes against my stereotypical view of an arch user ).
The stereotype of arch uses generally being smart is no longer. The "I use arch btw" meme brought a whole new user base to arch. You'll find them on r/unixporn showing off their hyperland rice that they copied from some other user..
I had no idea that existed but I’ve just returned from r/unixporn. There are some sick setups. Also we all copy. My entire neovim config is copied and modified from a couple dozen setups I admired. Nothing wrong with copying things you like. Don’t gate keep Linux.
However… Minecraft cracked is pretty funny lol.
I agree that gatekeeping is no good and people should not do that.
However...
we all copy
I do not feel that assuming all people copy, should be done either, in my opinion.
I never said there was anything wrong with copying. I was simply pointing out a stereotype.
the firefox, zen browser and libre wolf packages are concerning. The ttf ms font too. Those are very normal apps and unless you pay attention to the package name when doing "pacman -Syu", you would fall for the malware.
If only we can compartmentalize all AUR packages. The download AUR sources iirc are already in something like $HOME/.paru. Installing is a different story, because these packages can put their executable all over the places: /usr/local/bin, $HOME/local/bin.
With respect, you wouldn't install these by just doing an update, so pacman -Syu is fine.
You would have needed to install these manually, or a package that depended on them - both from AUR - so you'd also need to use yay (etc) to install them.
But - I totally agree with your points that tge names look innocent enough for someone to install those over other packages.
Always look at the AUR (website) at the package details - if it's new(ish) and has 0 or 1 votes, then be suspicious.
I already assumed aur was riddled with stuff like that.
Use a condom when fucking around in there.
This is an increasing problem and I'm not sure how the open source community is going to deal with it. It's been a big problem with NPM packages and also Python libraries over the past five years. There's a bunch of malicious typo-squatting stuff in many package repositories (say you want libcurl but you type libcrul, congratulations it's probably there and it'll probably install libcurl for you and bring a fun friend along).
Now with AI slop code getting submitted, it's not really possible to check every new package upload. And who's going to volunteer for that work?
Why is this not found in the official news for Archlinux? https://archlinux.org/news/
Because, and I quote:
"Warning: AUR packages are user-produced content. These
PKGBUILDs are completely unofficial and have not been thoroughly vetted. Any use of the provided files is at your own risk."
Thankfully, there's a mailing list that covers issues like these. Heck, OP's PSA was probably originally propagated from there.
I know its user produced content. But there are still rules that are enforced by Archteam and they host and link to it. And why not tell people about security issues? They could at least tell people in the news, so we can act accordingly. This is super disappointing. Is there any trustworthy RSS feed that covers this?
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