If you put Linux Mint on the average persons PC and set it up with the same desktop icons as their windows pc they wouldn't know it wasn't windows.
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My parents know one and it's windows. One time my dad messaged me at work to ask if his laptop had windows xp, vista, 7, 8, 10 or 11, so he doesn't even know the version differences :p
My mom may also say "samsung" as an operating system if you prod enough, but she also knows their laptop has windows 11, so she knows more than my dad
So that's what the average non-tech person thinks about OSes
Yeah. A typical non-tech person is just as likely to say their PC is running on Microsoft or Google. Maybe they'll say Edge if they are really knowledgeable.
I worked tech support in a call center, a thousand years ago.
Telling people to click on the "big blue E" was used nearly every call. Not much has changed.
In the case of the browser, they are still only describing use, not brand name.
They don't know what a browser is. That's just "The Internet".
Edit: I got whooshed.
I was making a joke about edging.
Edit: It was pretty subtle, to be honest. Not my finest masturbation-related humor.
I once had a user all me to "install the latest version of the internet on her computer".
My first thought was "that's gonna take a hot minute..."
She was referring to wanting the latest version of internet explorer, of course, but it didn't stop my "take everything literally" brain from going on a humorous aside imagining downloading the entire internet to this users machine.
Most of them are unaware of what an OS is even.
For real! I'm still unable to explain what an OS is to my 14-yo daughter. I tried several analogies but I always have the impression she says she gets it just to shut me up so she can carry on watching Tiktok videos.
starting from stratch is a good way to learn. Basic circuits, what electricity is, etc. Then you move onto diodes and transistors. Then memory and binary systems. Then assembly, c, etc.
Also, have you tried convincing them to move from stuff like tiktok to foss apps like loops?
Your dad seems miles ahead knowing windows versions compared to the average person.
Yep, my first level tech support experience absolutely confirms this. The question what operating system the client uses has gotten me a wide variety of answers, and most of them did not have anything to do with operating systems.
When I was a child, Windows 95 came out and people bought it without owning a computer, deciding they would get a household PC now.
That level of hype is biblical and it sticks.
Edit: Then of course, Bill openly said he likes Windows being pirated because it would be the OS of choice of everyone. People would only know Windows.
I constantly remind myself of the George Carlin(I think) quote:
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of them are stupider than that.”
Also important to remember Douglas Adams (when underestimating stupid people):
“A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”
Have gotten to post that one twice this week!
While I don't disagree with this in principal, it's important to distinguish between stupidity and ignorance. Most people don't know about OSes because they've never needed to learn more than how to do basic tasks, and so are ignorant of how they work, what alternatives are out there, and why someone might choose one. This is very different to being incapable of those technicalities if shown a good reason to do so.
I always think about the effort to create a bear proof trash can in Yosemite that gave us the phrase “there is significant overlap between the smartest bear and the dumbest tourist”.
gotta add the babbage classic :
On two occasions I have been asked, — "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" In one case a member of the Upper, and in the other a member of the Lower, House put this question. I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
That sounds like my ex colleague. He could not comprehend people typing non numbers into his input boxes on his little application and I had to break thing à down for him. He actually got upset over it. "It asks for a positive, integer value. What's unclear about that? Why would you type text in?"
sigh
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/security_is_a_t.html
"There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists.”
I swear I saw a comment around here that said "the average user does not want bloatware like systemd on their computer" and I just kind of wonder if we are all living on the same planet sometimes.
I started building pcs to replace cable boxes for people. The realization I had is that most people's understanding of technology starts and ends with their phone.
And they don't even understand their phones.
One of the two is bound to be Hannah Montana linux
I jokingly threatened to install Hannah Montanna Linux on my wife's windows gaming rig, and she said she wouldn't be mad.
If only that version wasn't deprecated.
Yeah the avg people won't even know about the TempleOS
'Is this a windows computer' 'No this is a dell computer'
The fuck is BSD?
sincerely: a non-technical mint user
B (Berkeley), S (Software), D (Distribution).
A Unix based OS, developed at Berkeley.
Technically yes, but there's a lot more to it lol
It's a bit like if you separated two twins and raised them in isolation to study nature vs nurture
So, there are a couple of things. Here is where I push up my glasses and say "well--ahem--"
First, true, BSD is not itself Unix. That specific OS (which began with the PDP-7 Operating System in the late 1960s) really only existed until the late 80s or early 90s, when Bell Labs stopped working on it.
However, it is literally Unix-based. The first version of BSD was forked (as we'd call it today) from the Research Unix source code at UC Berkeley. Since then, the various BSD derivatives and distros have all iterated upon or forked from that initial Unix code. I don't think any are officially registered as SUS systems (but there are only a handful that are), which means that a pedant would say that BSD is technically "Unix-like."
But it is based on Unix, it's a part of the Unix family, just like Windows 11 is part of the NT family. MacOS is also part of the Unix family (I think it might be or used to have been SUS-registered, actually). Linux isn't, and I think I remember hearing that Torvalds didn't even use the Research Unix source code to write the Linux kernel originally, but it does follow a lot of the SUS spec and so is definitely Unix-like.
Torvalds was inspired by Minix (which was in turn inspired by UNIX) but didn't follow Tannenbaum's micro-kernel model.
We got a historian over here! Lol Twins is a bit strong as a descriptor but the spirit of it might be apt enough.
I wish I had learned more about BSD before getting so ingrained in Linux. Not because one is "better" or anything. They're just two different worlds. I'm not sure I have the bandwidth to explore it the way I'd like to, like I did with Linux.
But who knows, it's just one step more than all the distro and setup hopping I've done over the years.
If you try FreeBSD you get ZFS as the file system and PF (OpenBSD's creation) as the firewall. Sound and video will be a little different to set up, but most applications are going to work the same these days.
Yeah, I think it's a fair characterization, I just wanted to clarify that it is indeed based on Unix.
To my knowledge I've never used BSD. I didn't move away from Windows until I, like you say, just didn't have the bandwidth to do more than one experimental thing with my computer. Windows pushed me out a few years back, and I went with Linux because of the breadth of support.
I've got tons of time to do research, though. By which I mean read random Wikipedia articles in the bathroom, TBH. I found a big tree somewhere on there a long time ago, showing the progression from PDP Unix all the way to the latest FreeBSD (with Linux as a little tag on the side, lol).
Thanks for the writeup, I have trouble falling asleep on some days, and rereading it a couple times will definitely help.
Anyway, not sure what SUS is, but MacOS was indeed certified as a Unix. They also keep tools and APIs compatibility with FreeBSD so stuff is portable between them, and not just for shits and giggles.
Lol, nice.
SUS is "Single Unix Specification" or "Single Unix System," I can't remember which (I think the former). It's the name of the certification that MacOS actually has.
I do have to say, I didn't realize that they were close enough as to be co-portable. That's really interesting.
Wait so which is more accurate? Unix-based or unix-like? Also as someone who thought they knew this stuff already, what is "the SUS spec" or are you making some pun on suspect?
Both are accurate. Something can be Unix-like (using many of the same paradigms and keywords and such) without being derived from the source code of Unix, but BSD actually is originally based on that code. Linux is Unix-like but not Unix-based. BSD is both, as is MacOS. Windows is neither.
SUS means "Single Unix Specification," I think. When it went from being an OS to being a spec, that's what they called the certification.
Though "SUSpect" would be a great pun on the idea, yeah. Big "Among Us" opportunities.
The BSDs are UNIX-like because being "UNIX" involves paying to go through a certification process, and I don't believe any of them target strict compliance. Solaris is a UNIX, as is HP-UX, AIX, and Apple OSX.
The BSDs should all be pretty close, though.
In a strictly semantic way it is technically true; It is the basic building block of what later became the building block of macos.
Responded to the wrong person.
What I meant to write here was: I've used both linux and freebsd, and nature vs nature holds true, I th8nk. But I am unsure which one is which.
I didn't mean that either results specifically from nature or nurture, but that there's a lot of nuance between the two that makes me think of that kind of "forbidden experiment".
It's the same fabric as any human culture, I suppose, which is endlessly fascinating.
A separate family of operating systems. It's a direct decendant of the old UNIX. FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD are the most common distributions.
It shares a lot of the same userspace tools as Linux (the GNUserspace, if you will), so if you're used to the command line, a lot will seem familiar at a first glance. However, the underlying mechanisms can feel a bit strange at first once you try it out.
I used FreeBSD as my daily driver back in the day, but now I'm also on Mint, mostly because I used linux more at work.
I've been meaning to check out BSD these days to see how far it's come since I last used it 20ish years ago, I just haven't gotten around to it.
I also remember hearing someone say that there are two things from Berkley that messes with your head: BSD and LSD.
Well I sure used to like LSD, but I get the feeling that I'm not qualified for Berkeley's other offering.
if you're used to the command line, a lot will seem familiar at a first glance
Until one runs into “unknown option --help” and the multitude of other quality-of-life improvements that at least FreeBSD never ported. I frankly doubt it that they changed a noticeable amount in that department in the past twenty years.
Basically Macos
It's weird to think about it and notice that's basically true.
MacOS is closed-sourced Darwin, which is itself a descendant of BSD.
Omg, license laundering goes brrr.
What the fuck did you just fucking say to me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class at Berkeley, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on GNU, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in al-gore-rhythm warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire FOSS ecosystem. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo
I like how you stopped bothering to modify the copy pasta a third of the way through. 😄
In a strictly semantic way it is technically true; It is the basic building block of what later became the basic building block of macos
Okay, imagine Linux. But (most of) the whole thing developed at once rather than just the kernel and tools separately.
AND:
- GNU licenses: companies use code and contribute because it may help
- BSD licenses: companies that use code shouldn't contribute because it sucks
I started a class this year, a forensics class related to computers. The intro prompt is interesting, what computer do you have, windows or mac?
Yeah but you're probably using a custom Linux distro (I forgot what it's called now) to investigate either a Windows or a Mac system because that's what everyone else has, and you're not investigating yourself.
You're probably thinking of Kali Linux 😅?
Don't forget Temple OS

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