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[–] 120 points 1 month ago (13 children)

I bet they would be nicer individuals if they didn't have to worry about having their basic needs met

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  • [+] 50 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (9 children)
  • [–] 33 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    It's just about the basic needs here. Its actively damaging to develop without those being met. And even if it does make a few more assholes, this is still the point - here are some stupid assholes that deserve to be given the guarantee of survival

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    This is what I don't understand about anybody who disagrees with you. What is the point of the entire concept of society, of civilization, of government, of organizing people into any sort of group if not to raise the basic quality of living? If you don't believe in the concept of a society, then fuck off and stop influencing and benefitting from the very thing that you're trying to dismantle.

    Furthermore, not only is it the moral and ethical thing to do to take care of all of us, but it's an investment that pays dividends because healthy and safe people become productive people who will in turn raise a generation of productive people and so on and so forth. So even if you're a ghoul who lacks empathy and only looks at the bottom line, it still just makes sense to feed and educate and clothe and house the people. And even if you're able to easily provide those basics for yourself and your family, that just means more expendable income to juice the economy when you buy the goods and services that you want instead of just spending it on needs.

    "Oh no, but then we'd get a ton of immigrants!" Okay? And what, we get a population boom of productive people just in time for boomers to retire and die? And that's supposed to be bad? Kinda seems like an ideal solution.

    The only explanation that I can find is that these people are either too dumb to think that far ahead or they're too cruel to want to end suffering for anybody that isn't them. In both cases, I don't know what the solution is, but they're so plentiful that it's hard to imagine a Star Trek utopian society ever coming to fruition. It's hard to have hope for the future with so many bastards insisting that humanity has already peaked and we need to regress to improve.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    you see the immigrants have scary values that differ from the nice white folk of america. they have a strong work ethic, prioritize family, speak english, and most importantly, have a slightly different skin tone which assaults the delicate anglo sensibilities upon which this great eugenicist experiment was founded

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    That's not the only explanation. Our current era is dominated by a complete lack of political imagination, probably because most of the ruling class benefits from how things are (I guess that's true by definition). And some of them can benefit even more if they redirect all the blame on an outgroup. It's not stupidity when they are doing what is in their personal best interest and it's not cruelty because Im not sure they think in the slightest about those they are hurting.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago*
    1. They'd take everything you give them

    2. They'd insult you for being stupid enough to give shit away for nothing

    3. they'd fight and steal amongst themselves for whatever they can get from each other

    4. they'd do everything they can to stop you

    5. they'd complain and demonize you for stopping.

    but MAYBE the kids they have that you're feeding will grow up to be slightly less shitty.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago*

    They might be nicer, but they won't change their political views. Voters in Germany generally have their basic needs met (thanks to Art. 1 GG). Around 80% of them are still explicitly supporting right-wing political parties on the federal level, whose policies will leave most Germans poorer than they were before.

    The unfortunate reality is that a lot of people - even when they don't want to say it - have an underlying belief in a hierarchy of "betters" and "others" that they want to uphold. And sadly, no amount of education has proven suitable to fix that.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 month ago (7 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    *Offer does not apply to anyone who committed war crimes or billionaires

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    It does actually. That's the radical part, it has to.

    ☹️ 1
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  • [–] 22 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    I think we should give individuals the option to opt out of social services. They need to be allowed to make mistakes or else they will never learn

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    If I understand right, this was the original meaning of the term “outlaw”. You don’t abide by the law, but you’re also not protected by it.

    Someone stole your TV? Good luck getting it back!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Wouldn't you also be able to go take it back though

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yes, but if anybody saw you (on your way to get the TV), they could kill you without impunity. It might not be worth the risk.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Conservatives are so hateful, I've actually heard them try to use as a gotcha "what if someone you hate is transgender, would you still affirm their gender identity?"

    Yes. Why wouldn't I? Even people I hate get to identify as whatever gender they want. Why is that such a hard thing for them to wrap their heads around?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 month ago*

    It's important to continue to want the best for even those who disagree with us on that matter, lest we become another one of them.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It'd be nice if they just disagreed but instead they hate you for reasons made up by those who enjoy get richer off of people not having their needs met.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    There aren't a lot of people who get richer when economic output is lower. Sure, there are some in some specific scenarios, but for the most part rich assholes support pro-poverty policies not because they stand to benefit, but because they are assholes, or more likely simply because they are ignorant. They aren't very different from the lumpen proletariat demanding policies against their own interests in that regard.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago*

    We will fight for their right to be stupid... goddammit.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    And they call you a leftists radical for this

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Okay, this is going to get me down voted to oblivion but when I think "basic needs" I think prison (without the lockup and slavery).

    You should have a place to sleep, three meals a day, heat in winter, a/c in summer. Access to education to better yourself, medical/dental and basic employment and a minimum level of clothing.

    Everything else is on you.

    Braces for incoming hate

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    We could choose to work on the ego control, tribalism and start using healthy policies, look at things that help the common good like infrastructure and schools that we pay for with taxes, then include healthcare and paid leave as common goods that reduce poverty and most importantly improves lives. Less stress from artificial scarcity. These healthy policies help improve life satisfaction, less stress and improve productivity, and spread the risk and cost the most, and use proven results in other places and states that expanded Medicare people did better.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago*

    I think most people and almost everyone should have their basic needs met and workers should have rights. And execute the Epstein class

    After executing the Epstein class, make sure to bury their corpses 6 feet under

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    I think people should have what they wish on others.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I get the impression you think you're being clever but you're just saying "I don't" in a different font

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I want to say yes, but it's hard to reconcile with people who not only want to have their security, but wish for others to suffer. What's the line for republicans? "I don't care what happens to you until it happens to me!" Especially for the well-off and powerful who have several lifetimes worth of their needs met and actively work against societal needs.

    In a nutshell, it kinda boils down to the same aspect as the tolerance paradox.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I mean if your express goal is to violate the social contract I don't believe you should be covered by it.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Hungry desperate people tend to cause problems. If someone decides to violate the social contract and ends up destitute they will become even more disruptive. These folk need educated, not starved

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago*

    What really sucks is when the people who claim to be unhappy with conservatism defend conservatives as if they are the victims of their own evil nature or idiocy.

    Conservatives are not the victims of conservatism. They are the perpetrators of conservatism and should be treated as such.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (6 children)

    For everyone on Earth minus a slight statistical anomoly, I agree!

    Like, you know how cleaning wipes say they kill 99.99% of germs? Well I want the needs of 99.99% of the population met.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    who do you think doesnt deserve to have their needs met?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    Billionaires knowingly perpetuating a harmful economic system for their own gain. Politicians and high-level government officials knowingly perpetuating a harmful political and legal system for their own gain.

    How I define harmful in this context: neglecting the needs of the many for the benefit of the few.

    Knowingly: repeating an action despite clear evidence or representation from the majority under their control. Or restricting public access to something that is harming them with the intent to continue the harmful behaviour.

    Obviously its a little more nuanced than that, but that's the jist.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    are you talking about these people's access to food being restricted or about murder? if it's the former, then i think that removing their power to harm would be more effective. if it's the latter i think that's kind of different from what the post is talking about.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Any method that permanently stops them from continuing the harm.

    I will be 100% aligned with this post when that's achieved.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    i agree, but i don't think that that contradicts the post. the path to a better world from this one is necessarily messy and in this situation nothing can be achieved cleanly. in this context i feel like you'd have to add a caveat to every single universal human right we're working towards because there are people in the way. you aren't arguing that they should denied food and shelter, youre arguing that they should be stopped from hurting people. i think you belong fully in the 'everyone deserves to have their basic needs met' camp

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    If everyone has their needs met, who will they be better than? They need a hierarchy. They're already poor and powerless, so they have to lord it over the destitute.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    My basic need is to watch people I disagree with suffer.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    Popper's paradox of intolerance is something that is never discussed by online leftists. Why is that? How can you respect people who will put you in an oven the moment they gain power? Don't you see how you're literally enabling them by pretending to hold a moral high ground that doesn't exist?

    The internet trained us to think that anything remotely hostile or "hateful" is an indictment on a person's soul. That if you don't accept everyone unconditionally you must be a monster. But my immune system keeps me alive by literally eradicating foreign pathogens that pretend to be benign. If my immune system didn't do that, then not only I but humanity itself would not exist. So what gives?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I interpret the post relating to underprivileged folks still requiring government assistance regardless of how many welfare cheats there are.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    Is the anti-welfare sentiment primarily based on the abuse of social security though? I think a sizable chunk of the population is generally opposed to political solidarity on an ideological level.

    Not because they are truly convinced that life in a "every person for themseves" type society would be preferable, but because they are inundated with propaganda and have internalized the rationale of the capitalist environment they live in.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Right. So everyone in this thread is seeing whatever the fuck they want to see in the comic, which is vague on purpose because god forbid OP actually expresses their political views like an adult, and we're all talking over each other while they sit back without elaborating on what the fuck they meant. And we think we're so smart, too, while discussing engagement bait drawn by someone with the artistic skills of a literal toddler.

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  • Yes but what if the person running wants your basic needs met and sanctions Israel but doesn't emphatically condemn them. They're literally the devil and a Republican would be better right?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago* (7 children)

    That's my political view also. This is why I support anti-corruption free market capitalism, the system with most proven track record for getting us closer to that goal.

    I fully admit that the anti-corruption part of the ideology is the unfortunate hard thing that needs the most work, and countries like USA have been pretty bad at doing that part.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Funny thing is that in a perfect ideal society, communism and capitalism both result in maximum equality and ultimate prosperity.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Yeah, it would be kind of weird to design a system whose perfect implementation would result in bad outcomes. So the question is, which system more likely reaches that perfection?

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  • [+] -15 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    I don't think they should. Live by the sword and all that.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Sounds like someone who doesn't think everyone should get their basic needs met

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  • [+] -10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I think that those who think that should be made to live by it. Not the same thing. You're advocating tolerating intolerance and you can keep that nonsense.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    My guy we are talking about basic needs to live. It's not tolerating intolerance to make sure people don't starve. No one is doing an ideology means-test at the food bank line to make sure you don't have shitty tweets first, you know?

    And further, I also don't think homophobes should experience homophobia nor racists racism, because that perpetuates the systems of homophobia and racism and hurt more than just assholes. It may be ironic when it happens but it's not good. There are other ways of pushing back against intolerance than using that intolerance against them.

    Especially when there is enough for everyone, you can feed someone without endorsement.

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  • I want to point out, I was a shitty asshole growing up. Raised in an extreme-right wing cult. However, I had a very patient polycule of grandfathers that over time taught me to become a slightly less shitty asshole.

    My point being, everyone is capable of improvement. They have to want to improve, is the thing. That's where I draw a line, at least.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Unless your way of changing things involves massive genocide, you're going to have to get comfortable with wanting the basic needs met for the people you dislike.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    The fuck are you talking about? I'm saying people who think that way should live that way also. When did everyone's brain fail out of their ear here?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Yes, exactly. You believe that people who do not think that all people's needs should be met should live without their basic needs met, right? That's what you said? If not, you need to be more deliberate with your language. (Which, ironically, would put you in the category of people you are talking about).

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Sigh.

    This is like being back at reddit. I'm just going to block you.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    Man, I feel you. You say X and then a mob of rabid dogs comes at you with "SO YOU SUPPORT HITLER??!??!". Modern online discussion is soul-draining. You know what's funny to me? That these people copy and pasted reddit, and instead of removing downvotes or at least bringing them back to a tool for moderating off-topic content, they kept them. And they still use them as a "I disagree" button, which is against the original purpose of the reddiquette that no one ever read. Also they made it decentralized but not peer to peer, so basically they ended up promoting reddit mods to instance admins. Amazing revolutionary pragmatism.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    I'm not a mob of rabid dogs, I'm one human being. And all I'm trying to do is understand what this person was trying to say and if I was misinterpreting them or not. I never jumped to a, "SO YOU SUPPORT HITLER?!!?!?" I was just looking for clarification and what I got instead was blocked. That's not discussion, that's putting your head in the sand.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    What's the balance between what the government should provide towards our basic needs vs what the individual is responsible for?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago

    You balance it against wealth equality, aim for the most wealthy people to have enough to own 1 yact but the least wealthy still have at least a studio apartment to live in. Everyone gets firsts before anyone gets seconds.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    All basic needs should be provided for. Anything beyond basic needs should be your own responsibility. So food, shelter, health and wellbeing, education, security, defense, and access to infrastructure should all be provided as a part of the public good.

    And before you say it, people will still want more than just their basic needs met, so almost all will still find work to do. They just no longer have to accept the jobs that require people to be threatened with death to take them.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Don't be pedantic. Doing nothing while people are dying on the street means the system needs to change. Tweak it until until (ideally) no one is dying on the street. That doesn't mean we wipe everyone's ass for them and it doesn't mean we won't have homeless people (I used to know a dude that wanted to be homeless and proudly proclaimed himself a "street person" to anyone who asked). It means everyone has their basic needs met. Food, water, a safe place to sleep, education, and a wage that covers the basic costs of living. If someone needs help we help them because we are a community and communities take care of each other.

    Our PROBLEM is the current system is catered to the top tier of the ultra rich and "pretends" any scraps thrown our way are us being irresponsible leaches. But we pay a ungodly percentage of our income in taxes (not just income taxs, but every sale, every regressive tax) to a government that gives almost nothing back while calling us freeloaders and then we get bogged down in conversations about "individual responsibility." We can have conversations about individual responsibilities after congress works full time, the pentagon can pass an audit, military generals don't retire and go to work for defence contractors, and billionaires get their goddamn fingers out of the white house (and it wasn't just under trump they had their fingers in the government pie).

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    This is not a call to violence in any way but unfortunately probably won't happen until the right kind of people start dying on the streets. Look at how shook up CEOs got over one healthcare parasite CEO getting what he got. Look at how the chud white nationalist conservatives got shook up over one gummy racist rat "paying the cost of freedom" or however he put it when talking about children being gunned down schools.

    Things will have to get a lot worse before they get better.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Food, shelter, health care, education are provided for all, regardless of contribution or ability to contribute.

    I'm not sure how to pay for that, how to deal with metric gaming, or people who dont want the above. Also how to deal with externalities like climate change or conflicts.... But I can dream!

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