This happens virtually every single day. Drivers in Chicago would rather commit vehicular manslaughter than wait 5 seconds for someone to cross.

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[–] 43 points 1 month ago

It used to be common in Poland where pedestrians didn't have priority when crossing the street, they had to wait for a car to stop and let them cross (of course they had priority once on the crosswalk). There were couple of attempts to change this but some politicians claimed that it will cause more accidents because it will be confusing, people will think they have priority, drivers will not stop... Finally, couple of years ago it passed and... it just worked, accidents were down.

Not giving pedestrians priority when crossing the street is beyond stupid.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    What do they think an already stopped car is doing there? Straight to jail.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 month ago

    It's a pity the footage cant be used to report the driver and have them. prosecuted: (

    I love watching Cycling Mikey in London, UK reporting endless drivers he records and the salty tears from drivers reported for breaking the road rules there.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago

    "Surely this person is stopped for no reason and not because someone is in the marked crosswalk."

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  • [–] 31 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    My area has a bunch of these crosswalks on six lane 40 MPH / 65 km/h streets and I never dare to use them.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    We've got one that's 45 mph, well known for pedestrian hits. Runs through poor housing areas where people tend to walk to places. But there are lights and crosswalks, so it's got that over this place.

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  • [–] 48 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

    Edit: See edit at the end. I was working on incomplete information.


    Looked it up, and here's what Illinois traffic law has to say:

    A driver must come to a complete stop (and yield):

    • When a pedestrian is in a marked crosswalk [notably, this one is marked as a "zebra crossing"].
    • On school days, when children are in close proximity to a school zone crosswalk.

    So you technically don't have to stop until a regular pedestrian steps into the crosswalk, but once they decide to enter, you have to stop your shit.

    Additionally:

    A driver must yield:

    • When a pedestrian is in an unmarked crosswalk on the driver’s side of the roadway, and there are no traffic control signals.
    • When making a turn at any intersection.
    • When making a lawful turn on a red light after coming to a complete stop.
    • After coming to a complete stop at a stop sign or flashing red signal at an intersection.
    • When a pedestrian enters a crosswalk before the traffic light changes.
    • When a pedestrian walks with a green light, to a “walking person” symbol or to a “walk” signal.
    • When a pedestrian leaves or enters a street or highway from an alley, building, private road, or driveway.
    • When a pedestrian enters an intersection with a flashing yellow arrow.
    • To a person with disabilities, including physical, hearing and visual disabilities.

    Only the last person was driving illegally, but I think the other people who didn't stop were being dicks.


    Edit: I dug further (i.e. into the compiled statutes and not just a handbook) and found more:

    Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.

    So actually, the second-to-last car was violating traffic law too. The other two could be debated given the middle car wasn't yet "stopped", but it sure was still a diiiiick move.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Interesting. In California you are required to stop if someone else stops at a crosswalk for this exact reason. I'm surprised Illinois doesn't have such a law.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Perfect example of how legislation doesn't really make roads safer when the designs directly encourage the illegal behaviour and there's not enough police to enforce it everywhere.

    Narrow the intersection to one lane, elevate the crosswalk to sidewalk height, block parking two car lengths before the crosswalk, and turn the beg buttons into hard-countdown crossing buttons.

    Since pedestrians have right-of-way at crosswalks, we should be designing the crosswalks to reflect that. Otherwise we'll continue seeing this kind of behavior from drivers.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    Laws without actual enforcement and stiff penalties are the same as no law.

    Random enforcement with large fines is great at getting people to obbey the rules of the road "just in case I might get caught" - it's sad but you can't relly on people doing the right thing even if by not doing so they're seriously endangering the lives of others (like the second car in that video).

    Worse, if at first it's only the assholes (a small fraction of people) breaking the rules and endangering others by doing so, if they're not punished by it eventually the "neutrals" (the bulk of people, who are neither inherently understanding towards others nor assholes) will do the same as the assholes since they see them getting away with doing the selfish thing and by that point it's only a minority of drivers doing what they're supposed to be doing.

    I've lived in several countries in the EU and now live in Portugal, the rules of the road being pretty much the same in all of Europe and yet there is way (WAY!) more reckless life-endangering rule-breaking on the road like this in Portugal than in the Netherlands and Britain. My impression is that the reason is that in the other two countries you're way more likely to get caught (not least because they actually have cameras at traffic signs and other places), the police are actually strict about enforcement rather than forgiving "just this once" (only next time around that driver is caught it's a different police officer so it's "just this once" again) and the fines are stiff.

    I remember when I first emigrated out from Portugal and went to live in The Netherlands, having the same kind of driving habits as the typical Portuguese, so I did the typical Portuguese thing at a traffic sign in The Netherlands (yellow light gets treated as "accelerate" and the first few seconds of "red" are treated as "can still pass") and a week later got a fine on the post because there was a camera there, so I phoned them to appeal and the answer was "Rules are rules: crossing one second after it turned red or crossing one minute after it turned red are both crossing a red light" so I had to pay the fine.

    Lets just say that my driving in The Netherlands quickly lost all the funny business habits from Portugal.

    This shit happens because it's allowed to happen.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Yeah, I really love these laws, and I follow them religiously when I have to be drive, but unfortunately very few Chicago drivers know/follow them. I live on a busy street near some pretty major tourist attractions, and we have a lot of out of town drivers so it's really hit or miss, ahem.

    I find I have to make sure I have caught the driver's attention in some way before I venture in into the crosswalk, at least then if they hit me it's out of choice not inattentiveness. Even a driver who thinks I'm breaking the law by crossing should stop if they see me in enough time.

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  • [–] 84 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    No light, no stop sign, only the requirement to stop for pedestrians and not even a light for them. And, since it's Chicago, I'm guessing that road always has cars on it.

    I would never use that crosswalk.

    There should be a light there. But, more than that, since it's a residential street with a park, the speed limit should be 25MPH, and there's no reason for it to be three lanes. Furthermore, that red car turning left needs to look past the trees and wall in the median on the right, and account for six lanes of traffic, again without a light.

    I'm guessing that red in the road near the crosswalk is paint, but it might as well be blood.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Even in Chicago drivers are required to yield to pedestrians at marked crosswalks.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    From that video and given that not one but two cars passed when pedestrians were legally had priority to cross (for one car on the right, then the one on the left) plus the speed of the car on the left, clearly de facto stopping for pedestrians at crosswalks is optional.

    Laws are only requirements if they're enforced, otherwise they're in practice only advices.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 month ago

    If we lived in a sane country, this person would have their license taken away.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    having a 20 mph speed limit or lower in urban areas frequented by pedestrians, people in wheelchairs & walkers,strollers etc, bicyclists, (anyone not incased in tons of hard metal) wanting to use & enjoy the streets of their city with minimal fear, would be a good start on addressing manic car drivers who don’t have the time to slow down or yield to anyone or anything in their way

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago

    In my country, the black and white cars in the right lane would also risk losing their licenses on the spot

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  • [–] 25 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Wat? No pedestrian/car traffic lights for the crossing on a busy road!? As a European, only the shittiest undeveloped places would have something like that!

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    I live in a much smaller city in the States and pedestrian lights are very common. Even too common. Some are placed only a few hundred feet from an intersection with traffic lights. Chicago of all places can and should do better.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago*

    Yeah, that's the thing about the USA, there's tons of variation in how local areas do stuff like that.

    My point is the minimum for this kind of thing in the USA is much lower than countries with similar wealth - purely because we don't care as much about pedestrians getting killed.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    When I'm a pedestrian, I pretty much ignore right of way and treat crossing more like frogger (unless it's at a traffic light), though generally prefer taking moments where I can cross either fully or to a raised divider. It won't really help me if some driver that hits me gets in legal trouble.

    While driving, I actively try to avoid hitting pedestrians, using various tools at my disposal, such as my eyes (useful for seeing that there's a pedestrian I shouldn't hit), my feet (my car is equipped with a pedal that converts my momentum into heat, as well as another one that disengages the motor so that it doesn't add more momentum back in, allowing me to slow down or even stop to avoid), and my arms (my car is also equipped with a device that allows me to convert the direction of my momentum to a different direction, which can work as a last line of defense when avoiding hitting pedestrians, though honestly it's a pretty big fuck up to even need to do that because there aren't many other options for directions on city streets). I also chose my car with "good visibility of things around me" as one of the features I wanted it to have.

    Though it helps that the crosswalks here that aren't at intersections have lights that flash rapidly only when someone presses the button to cross. It's probably safer to cross at these than it is at an intersection due to varying levels of attention to pedestrians while turning, especially if it's a left on a busy street that doesn't offer many opportunities to make that turn.

    Pedestrian bridges are nice whether I'm walking or driving. Assuming they don't collapse, that is, in which case they aren't very nice.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago

    Y'all need some crossing bricks.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    ....chicago?

    Bruh... this is common in EVERY single car-centric municipality. I walk in toronto, a whole different country , and THIS is a daily occurrence for me. Even when I get the license plates ofo the people who do it and report them.... nothing happens....

    And as far as Im concerned THIS is exactly what most people want, chicago or toronto, since there hasnt been a subtantial action substantiated by people to change this ... so....

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    You'd be beaten to a fine pulp if you acted like this in Europe.

    Meanwhile, in Asia where lots of countries have a different system/culture, the cars would not go that fast when passing by a pedestrian. The idea is basically that pedestrians just walk into the road and the cars adjust their speed to allow the pedestrians to pass.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    You’d be beaten to a fine pulp if you acted like this in Europe.

    I've been to southern Europe, you're fooling no one. Europeans are not immune to the empathy-dissolving powers of the automobile. Only meaningful infrastructure and enforcement fixes this, and the places in Europe where motorists are reasonable have those things. They didn't get there through mob beat-downs.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Ah, forgot I'm on Lemmy where everything is interpreted literally. My bad.

    You're right - in Europe, street vigilantes won't pass you through a fine-mesh strainer for breaking the law. What's real is that even in Southern Europe not giving right of way to pedestrians is not only a crime, it is also a social death sentence.

    You couldn't act like the driver in the video for long without running into some serious problems with basically everyone you meet. Imagine taking a dump in the park every morning and expect to get to live a normal life among the other civilized people of your city - it's just not gonna fly.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    If you have any videos or articles of these people being beaten into a fine pulp please do share , DM or any other way I dont care , cause I need proof that the people are actually substantiate something substantial about it lol.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    Yeah I'm in Portland where 1) We have a reputation domestically for being ahead of the curve on urban design and 2) State law says that cars must always wait for pedestrians at any crossing, signaled or painted or otherwise. But it all falls apart as soon as reality hits the road: If the speed limit is over 25MPH, it's likely that a driver won't stop for you unless you're already in the road. And if a road has two lanes forget it. Drivers see someone stopped at a crosswalk in the next lane over and just think "Why did this dipshit stop their car in the middle of the lane?" before blowing past them like the car in the video. Cars remove the ability for humans to see each other as peers and it is lethal, if there are cars there needs to be forcible traffic control measures that don't rely on good will alone. We need traffic real signalling, not virtue signalling.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I don't trust crosswalks at all. I'll just wave the cars past and wait for no cars.

    All the car waiting for them did is create a blind spot.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    Chicago is the most pedestrian-hostile place I've ever visited, it's insane, and that counts Houston, which doesn't even bother to have sidewalks at crosswalks at all in most of the city. In Chicago, they literally try to hit you, you'll hear them hit the gas as you step into the crosswalk.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    This is why some city slap speed bump everywhere because asshole won't slow down.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    This is why when I arrive at a designated pedestrian crossing that has more then one lane without a center pedestrian island I stop back about 1 car length, especially so when I see someone ready, or signalling they will be crossing.

    It allows pedestrians, and cars behind me (in other lanes) to see each other, and should allow a little more reaction time for either to stop.

    Also people in cars constantly forget kids are just as likely to run across a crosswalk. And at one point those kids might be their kids.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Looks like this crossing needs a "crossing brick". A brick pedestrians carry from one end to the other, with the implication that they get to deliver it though the windshield of any driver who doesn't respect the crossing.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Yes a lot ppl don’t care about bright glow in dark signs that say ppl are allowed to cross.. it’s sad

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    As a driver I know I'm supposed to stop at a zebra like this, but I'm probably also blocking visibility for other drivers at the same time. Yeah, they're supposed to be more aware than this but we all have car insurance for a reason.

    Is the better move, as a driver, to partially block the neighboring lane until they're done crossing? I'm seriously wondering this now.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    We really shouldn't have to do it, but sometimes in sketchy crosswalks, I'll put my arm out my window with an open palm faced back so cars on the left hopefully have some indication of pedestrians crossing from the blindspot on the right my car creates.

    Does do anything? Probably not...

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    I saw a guy get hit in a similar situation once. One car stopped for him in the right lane and he walked out into the street. Oncoming guy in the left lane didn't know why the guy in the other lane stopped (It was dark and he likely couldn't see the pedestrian). Dude got creamed, the car was probably doing ~35-40 mph. He went flying and landed on his neck. My wife who's a nurse stopped to help him, and make sure he didn't move until EMS got there because he could have broken his neck. The fucked up part is the car that hit him didn't stop. We gave our contact info for the police report, and never heard about it again. I hope he made it out with no permanent injuries.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Yulp. Hasn’t changed a bit since I lived there.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    It's enraging how he ends up stopped in traffic less than a block away. He's still close enough that you could run up and kick the side of his car

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Don't do that. Don't provide me with idiotsincars again. My blood pressure just settled from when last I was there.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Totally off-topic: the Viofo A119 Mini v2 is one of the best dashcams ever made (speaking as another user of it!). Good stuff.

    Also, that driver is insane.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I feel like that's a problem in most major cities, or just on wider thoroughfares in general.

    A crosswalk with a light was installed on my block for this very reason, but good luck having cars actually stop when you activate it.

    Not specifically pedestrian-related, but I lived near Columbus, Ohio for a few years, and it was an issue in various areas. They had to install a traffic light in between two other near the job I had, there, because entire trains of vehicles would just run the turn signal.

    People just seem to progressively care less and less as time goes on.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Maybe a problem in most USAian cities.

    The rest of the world figured it out. All you have to do is not worship cars and build infrastructure knowing that both cars and pedestrians exist. In urban areas, roads should be designed around pedestrians. In highways, roads should be designed around cars.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    When you say most major cities I am assuming you are being US centric and talking strictly about the US. Because it is definitely not a problem in major cities in many other parts of the world.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    This. There are many such crossings where I live, but people don't drive this crazy and 99.99% of thr time are chill and let them pass (i mean ir's the law), especially when another car already stopped

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Eurydice back there bout to witness a tragedy.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Armed self defense is the only way to deal with murderous ecocidal narcissists. That's attempted murder, the victims should be able to defend themselves.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago*

    People are getting more and more anxious :/ people have no patience, wait a few seconds for someone to cross the street. People becoming increasingly decadent.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    You mean by walking across the street without looking and acknowledging oncoming traffic?

    Like fuck these drivers, and this intersection/crosswalk, but the guy is not even looking where he's going...

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    Like fuck these drivers, and this intersection/crosswalk, but the guy is not even looking where he's going...

    yeah, if she was wearing a short skirt she was looking to be raped /s

    fuck the victim blaming dude, car drivers should be paying attention and should have stopped precisely because of that reason, what if it was a kid who pulls away from their mothers hand and runs across ? McDickhead driver is in charge of a 2t monstrosities.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 month ago

    If you stop, put your hazards on for the people in the cross walk.

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