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[–] 163 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Google discontinued development of alphafold, broke up the team, let many go and transferred the rest to general LLM development except for some that were moved to their vertically integrated own pharmaceutical research (to cash in on the whole value chain and lock everyone else out of their tools).

Mind you, that is the tool that got people a Nobel Prize.

https://thenextweb.com/news/deepmind-alphafold-team-dismantled-gemini-anthropic

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Google discontinued development of alphafold

    No they did not, it's on version 3 and they just added >50 PTMs to modelling this month. Another version is being developed and sold to pharma on subscription on a large scale batch modelling platform.

    broke up the team

    The team continued on to other projects, including the commercial version mentioned above. There was no point in continuing when the development was just adding more features.

    the tool that got people a Nobel Prize

    2 people from Deepmind, Jumper and Hassabis, one person at U Wash , Baker, is still developing AlphaFold with Google and is a academic lab.

    You put a lot of faith on one vague article.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    You partially correct my statement but weirdly enough largely confirm it, just with a PR twist. "There was no point in continuing when the development was just adding more features." But it is not, AlphaFold 3.0 is still far from perfect. We need more than just a few more added features. But the next big step will be either some closed thing, developed by a largely changed team, sold for a fortune as subscription model to pharma multis or be done by entirely different groups that have nothing to do with Google or Deepmind.

    There is a reason why Hassabis is not working on it anymore and of course he will say it was all as it should be, given how he was moved upwards.

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  • [–] 290 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Dumb fucks really think LLMs are the kind of AI involved in medical and scientific research.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago

    ChatGPT, cure cancer for me.

    No, that didn't work, try again

    That one gave me a rash, try again.

    That last one did not work, also the rash is starting to look a little gross.

    Sorry for the delay, I had to go to the ER to get my arm amputated from the rash, can you try again, also look for a cure for amputated arm.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (8 children)
  • [–] -3 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    They absolutely are, but most people on this platform would prefer to hear their comfortable lie instead.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    No, chatbots are not used in medical or scientific research.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago

    No, chatbots are not used in medical or scientific research.

    So you're a scientist?

    I use LLMs every day, they search deep into supplemental data and manuscripts that would take months to sift through. Can't find specific information, reagents or data using title and abstract searches.

    LLMs can be useful tools, but this entire thread is people with bullshit jobs scared of being replaced by an algorithm because they know they have a bullshit job.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I think it's more that the way the chatbots work is the same. They assign a bunch of numbers to tokens, and the numbers determine how interrelated different tokens are. You put in a bunch of tokens and then it spits out what it thinks the next one should be based on all the interrelatedness numbers and some math things like transformers, and the math things have knobs on them to determine how strong they are. It doesn't matter if the tokens are words in a sentence or peptides in a protein. The underlying technology is the same.

    This is an exciting use for a tool that I mostly despise for probably all the same reasons you do.

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  • [–] 124 points 1 month ago (11 children)

    Giving LLMs credit for all machine learning is problematic

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago

    This is their go to motte-and-Bailey argument fallacy. Say something outlandish, get called out on it, retreat behind something more reasonable and how no one notices before sallying forth with unreasonable claims again.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Yeah machine learning for medical research has been around for a lot longer than LLMs. LLMs do not do medical research, they are just really expensive and fancy "next word" auto-correct generators.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    I'd argue they made scentific research harder due to the many fake papers you can find online

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    that's been a problem since 2005 at least (first time i did serious medical resesarch)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    I remember way back when with the Folding at Home project. That's a type of machine learning distributed. People happily contributed their computer time. Hell, there were contests around how much compute time a particular group could give.

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  • [–] 108 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    This shit can't even keep a consistent background over 4 comic panels

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    One thing I have to ask is why the AI insists on having slogans and lists on every object in its "illustrations." You can see this everywhere. Hell, I went to a close friend's funeral and they had AI generated memorial stickers. Even there, there are signs filling the negative space saying shit like "dedication, service, a safer community." Is this an AI proclivity or do normal people just like that crap?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago

    It's essentially by design. To keep AI from destabilizing, the way AI is tuned is to essentially 'go the same safe way' on similar prompts. LLM models are essentially a giant field of weights for chains of tokens. Prompts are turned into tokens and the closest result is the output. The more room you give it to vary, the more different styles and variation it can express with a propmpt, but it raises the chance of destabilizing the ouput, producing things like additional fingers or complete garbage. It's tuned to walk the same way to produce something we perceive as "passable" but it comes at the cost of taking away variation, which is why AI art/writing will consistenly converge towards the same narrow style set.

    (This explanation is not super accurate. I just tried to convey the jist of it)

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  • [–] 57 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Hopefully the AI that developed the cure isn’t the same one that drew the scientist’s hands in the third panel

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  • [–] 38 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    I think that that motivational trashcan really ties the room together

    wholeass desk vanished too

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I think the microscope got an erection over the "anti" stealing the cure

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  • [–] 44 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    when its actually useful, sure. great. complex algorithms solving problems is nothing new. its appreciated.

    when you automate everything to the point that it will kill billions of people and destroy the planet. then it becomes every humans moral imperative to skin everyone responsible and hang their corpses from the street lights as a warning to others who plan on doing the same.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Exactly, for every cancer cure AI generates, it generates an incomprehensible ammount of shit, not just slop, but actively harmful content, like revisionist history, lies about science, oceans of exploitative media, terabytes of hallucinations, novells worth of psycological manipulative chats with vulnerable individuals, and more.

    All of that while producing pollution that will increase the risk of cancer in the first place, completing the circle.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    AI is a very broad field. LLMs are just one corner of it. Probably the most visible one.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    And LLMs are what the tech oligarchs are pushing and what we are all talking about here, not any other kind. It is a disingenous attempt at deflection to pretend there is any discussion about other types of AIs.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    Dude, AI, specifically ChatGPT, couldn't do a regex against an IP address.

    In the time I spent trying to prompt, and I even set a timer, I did it myself.

    The shit that I see our "programmers" put out: half of the JS is beautified, while there is another block not. The shit is scraped and slapped together.

    But I am told to embrace AI. Man, I just want to go back to coding as a bit-twiddler.

    ++i

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  • [–] 39 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    We don't need vibe coded software or AI generated "art" and slop social media content to get to curing various forms of cancer or other diseases. No one would be upset about such a use. Instead it is being used to enable laziness, reduce our cognitive abilities, and further harm our environment while trying to make a quick buck and failing at that too.

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  • [–] 76 points 1 month ago (10 children)

    Breakthroughs like this WILL come from AI. But...

    1. They're not going to come from LLMs or image generating AIs.
    2. They're not going to come from the numbnuts generating comics in his bedroom - they'll come from real scientists.
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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago

    As demonstrated by AlphaFold, which is neither an LLM nor generative AI. Coincidentally, I've never heard any actual complaints about what AlphaFold does for research, and the complaints seem to focus on LLMs and generative AI instead. Go figure.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    It's going to come from scientists who know how to use ML to supplement their work. Also I don't think we are finding cure for cancer as a drug. Only cure I think may work 100% we master fully controllable nanotech that can also read DNA non invasively.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Never going to happen.

    Cancer isn't one disease, it's a series of different diseases for each organ.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    There are basically infinite cancers if you think about it since mutations and damages are totally casual

    (To be noted: i know very little about cancer so i may be wrong and basing this comment on a probably misconception we laymen have)

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Cancers are one thing: cells dividing beyond the limit. This is a DNA problem, made worse by existing mutations. Turns out LLMs are getting really good really fast at biology. So why then is it “never going to happen”? What’s the blocker?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    I think I may not have written my comment in the most coherent way possible.

    My first sentence was a reply to "nanotechnology". It's one of these sci-fi technologies that simply can't happen. You won't suddenly have atomic-scale supercomputers floating around being able to somehow unravel DNA AND have the capacity to edit it.

    It's just not how matter behaves at those scales.

    My second sentence still stands. I do agree that some kind of large scale data attack to the problem will help.

    But the solutions won't be magical "Fantastic Voyage" nanorobots shooting Ant Man lasers at cells.

    It will likely be a whole panoply of attacks on cancer cells, cis-platin with special spike proteins that need all kinds of external inputs to work (you're not downloading them and 3D printing that), or some other cancers may respond to pumped-up antibodies.

    etc

    I do hope that our new data processing heavy-lifters will also help with anti-aging and life extension.

    ya feel me?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    I agree. I was responding to the cancer thing rather than nanobots.

    The thing is, when you look small enough, cancer and aging share a cause: DNA issues. You don’t need nanobots for this, we already have methods of editing DNA today. All we need to know is what to change, something easier said than done.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Ai techniques (more on the ml side or just the math behind it) are starting to be applied to image and genome analysis to determine the boundaries from different types of cells based on gene expression. This is useful for identifying cancer where the gene expression is similar in many genes but the amount/ratio of expression might be different, and for identifying the location and size is the tumor

    Problem is that some of the research is coming out of Israel which doesnt exactly have the best human rights of ethics track record, and i have no doubt the data for testing was gathered through human experimentation

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Of course they'll come from ai, but that's more a linguistic thing. We have a tendency to call new computational technologies ai. But yeah, neural networks are being used in medical research and will likely bear fruit.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago*

    Well, as I explained in a post above, AI (so, not LLMs or other generative shit) is pretty limited in what it can research and as of right now can't do anything for which there isn't a single concrete research direction with some kind of algorithmic validator for the solutions or where results can't be reached in a couple of days.

    Further, there is no evidence that it ever WILL - maybe it will, maybe it won't: it's at best a possibility with an unquantified probability of happening.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    God why do LLM comics look so fucking uncanny

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Because perspectives get misaligned and there's no continuation.

    There's a whole desk with books that just disappears. The poster in the background can't decide what it wants to say. Nor can it decide on its size. The shelves in front of it can't decide what they contain or where they are positioned And the wall it's on can't decide how it's angled relative to the room.

    The "NO AI" dude is taking a giant step forward with his left foot behind a garbage bin for some reason.

    In the third panel the doctor is missing a ring-finger while his thumbs have grown 3-4cm

    Just to name a few.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    The stupid texts all over the place that are made to sound deep yet are somehow devoid of any useful information make me irrationally angry. You can really tell these models have been optimized to generate powerpoint presentations for creatively bankrupt low-level managers

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The "uncanny" part I think isn't because it's done badly, it's because it's done well - but not in any of the ways you'd get from a human. By the time a human artist has learned to get that good at shading, colouring, line work, human figures, posing etc, they'll have also learned about composition and perspective and good storytelling and when to not pointlessly overload the background with weird shit.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    generative ai? I dont think so.

    Most research is done using PREDICTIVE ai not generative ai.

    And no one's against machine learning, but fruit romance videos do not cancel out surveillance, inequality, and destruction of nature.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Generative AI would suggest fucking napalm as a cure for cancer.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (4 children)
  • [–] 60 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    wouldn't need to use genai to fake a cancer cure if conservatives didn't gut research for cancer

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    The company I work for is still going strong, and I feel we'll have a very tangible cure soon. The only problem I think there is a very small chance any insurance company would let the poors get their hands on it

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    I feel we’ll have a very tangible cure soon

    For cancer in general or for a specific kind of cancer?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Probably a specific one; cancers are all different from eachothers especially when on different organs

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah it will tackle the most prevalent cancers, like breast and prostate cancer, but be unable to be developed for cancers like brain cancer, since it is a radio pharmaceutical.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11103494/

    You can read more about it here. It is making very good progress, multiple companies are starting to make manufactured levels of the drug, and results are very good. Again, I highly doubt poor people will have access to it.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    God I hate how literally every single AI-generated comic (or at least the ones made by OpenAI's models given how damn universal its style is) have the EXACT same facial expressions. Every surprised or scared character has the exact same sort-of-horrified-but-no-light-behind-the-eyes look, any moment of true excitement, being proud, happy, etc has the same smiling-while-vaguely-staring-into-the-distance look to it, etc.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Medical fields have been using machine learning successfully for years before llms caught the shit sniffing attention of vc's. Current levels of llms are like tar pits for your brain and take either hate or intellect or both to get away from.

    People that advocate for llms as ai are malicious actors and literally the worst kinds of people. It's so obvious, I don't know why more of society can't see right through this shit. Like, I do know, but it's still frustrating to have to live in this wasteland of society right now, knowing how much time and energy and life force, essentially, is gonna be wasted because of whatever this fucking political cold war we're in.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    So where's that miraculous cure, then?

    Dude, didn't you read that comic? The anti-AI psycho destroyed it. The vibe scientist probably tried to type in the same prompt again but this time the answer was in Mandarin.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    You're so right, HIV infected plasma wasn't the cure for cancer. Maybe we should step back and look at this from a new perspective. I will generate a new vaccine for you and find a new batch of test subjects.

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  • [+] 80 points 1 month ago (6 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    One of the infuriating things I've seen in the industry in a bunch of cases. Folks working on valuable things getting pulled away to work on chatbot. Not even to try to make the chatbot game changing, just to make it more popular.

    Also, there was pressure in the industry to "be green"; to be efficient. That is all so far out the window now too...

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    I hate how LLMs have co-opted the term AI. Google was using AI for this just a different and I'd argue better technique. It's super frustrating to see other AI approaches be totally discarded just for everyone to put all their chips on LLMs being the 'right' approach

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    They've said something to that effect a long time ago. Back when they were first getting into the self diving car game they said that more people die of car accidents than cancer and it was more important to them. They're number driven, if the numbers say they'll make more money somewhere else, that's where they'll go.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    The guy BernieAsksAI making a pro AI cartoon with AI that can't draw hands (3rd frame).
    The exact kind of slop so many people hate. 🤣🤣🤣

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I didn't realize that it's an AI generated cartoon... Then I started looking at the frames a little more closely, and the more you look the worse it gets 🫣

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    Yes there is also lack of consistency between frame 2 and 3, with bottles disappearing on the table, and in frame 4 they are all gone. And the chair also changes between frame 2 3 and 4.
    No real artist would make that crap.

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