Wouldn't the road be closed for cars? At least no one died
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Know what solves this. Protected bike infrastructure that segregates car and cycling traffic. You all are making good points on both sides. But if the two types of traffic never interact this becomes a non-issue.
Even with segregated bike lanes these people will still drive on the road. There have been many times people drove their cars into groups of them where I live because of frustration. (I live in Western Europe where there's great bicycle infrastructure). So yeah, as long as they drive where they are supposed to drive it's fine, but it doesn't magically solves it.
because of frustration.
yeah that's actually called poor impulse control, it happens everywhere and we don't blame the victims.
Can I ask? Where you live are the bike paths "lanes" or are they "physically" protected from car traffic? Do cars have to knock down steel bollards and jump concrete barricades to enter bike lanes or is it some paint and the honor system? Because if it's the latter I'm not surprised at all. And if they are protected I'm wondering about the failure points or if people are just jacking up their cars to save five minutes? I'm genuinely curious - please let me know.
Said western Europe. So probably proper bike lanes. I live in western Europe, Spain specifically. There's the road, then a steel railing, then the river-like trench along the road, and then the bike lane.
The bike lane is completely empty, there's 3-4 "cyclists" in Lycra using the road.
Because real cyclists use the road and wear lycra. The bike lane is for the noobs.
Actual cyclists that use the bike lane to move from one town to the other do use the bike lane and don't use Lycra though. They're probably the butt of the joke for the lycra dudes, because they didn't even pay 10k€ for there bikes, most probably it was just 300€ for the bike lane-capable bike.
Look how many are biking, a bike lane wouldn't help here, they are taking over the whole road like they own it
Cyclists have the right to use the full Lane. Imagine if each of these people were in their own car.
You're absolutely right, they have every right to use the full lane. They should use the full lane.
But why are they taking both lanes?
Maybe the full lane, what they are doing here is illegal where I live, taking the whole road. Stay in your lane
Maybe they have to shit really bad.
Every weekend?
From what I've found, yes, these larger group rides are held every weekend, in addition to much smaller ones practically every day
It is key to remember that if it was one person or a handful of people the cars would still be beeping as they passed, driving way too close, and endangering the cyclists. Safety in numbers is real and in this situation anyone sane stays behind the group of cyclists or finds another route. It really is an effective strategy.
Also, if each of those people was in a car it would be absolute gridlock. That car would not have been getting where they were going faster in that case.
Oh wow that would totally piss me off and I don't even have a drivers license and bike everywhere, everyday.
Was anyone else hoping he would have hit a hidden ditch and wrecked his car?
When they close the road for races here the cops are on every corner. This dude would've gotten the shaft real quick.
That's not a race, that's just a big and well organised group ride.
Huh! That's actually crazy cool. I imagine they don't have good bike paths?
Rarely. But that doesn't stop shitty drivers (which I don't consider op). My cousin lives a bit north of this, he got hit-and-run'd by an old lady driving on a grass-seperated sidewalk riding his bicycle to a fishing spot before sunrise.
I don't think that group would fit on most bike paths safely. The speed difference for other users is too high to navigate a route like that safely. Best place for them would be a nice quiet country road, but sometimes you have to take the annoying roads to get to the good ones.
Yeah that makes sense. They'd have to break off into smaller pelotons and shit for it to work
Best place for them would be a nice quiet country road, but sometimes you have to take the annoying roads to get to the good ones.
Especially on a barrier island where that highway is literally the only thru-road.
It's Miami so no, absolutely not. And it'd be difficult to have a ride this big on a bike path.
Devils advocate theres a pregnant woman in the backseat but also a hijacker has planted a bomb in the car and if they go under 50mph the car blows up
Based on most of the comments here so far, you all hate cyclists more than cars.
What I really seem to hate is just people with zero situational awareness operating any sort of vehicle.
I'm a cyclist and when I'm on a bike I try to use the road responsibly. If I'm no a long climb going 10km/h with cars behind me I try to stop when possible and let them pass safely. I don't ride next to someone else chatting and blocking the entire lane. I don't ride on roads with speed limits over 60km/h. I would never do what they are doing in the video. It's just disrespectful and causing unnecessary tension between drivers and cyclists.
So basically, you aren't a self centered asshole is what you are saying?
If I’m no a long climb going 10km/h with cars behind me I try to stop
Imma stop you right there. That's not "being respectful", it's being a fucking pushover. The last thing you want to do while on a climb steep enough to drop you to 10 km/h is pull over and stop. Pull across to the side of there's enough room for them to pass, sure, but keep that momentum at all costs.
That said, if this ride is on open roads, then road rules should be followed. Where I live that means two abreast (plus more if overtaking), but a blob that's at least 5 wide in parts.
keep that momentum at all costs.
Who am I racing? It changes absolutely nothing for me. I'm not stopping in places that are bad for it but if there's a road where I can get of the road for 5 seconds and then start again it costs me absolutely nothing to do it.
Who said anything about racing? It costs a huge amount. Starting on a 10% grade hill is an enormous amount of energy compared to just keeping going as you were, and it puts you in significant danger as you do it.
Personally speaking because I am both. Cyclists don't obey the rules of the road to the same rigor as a car. Both parties are open to hate.
Now that said, only one of them is in a 2 tonne death machine.
Most cars don’t obey the rules of the road for shit. Case in point above
maybe its my metro area but I feel motorists are more likely to not follow the rules. There is cyclists but its a pretty low percentage. The ones that do though really do and make themselves a nuisance. There was a guy that would just ignore the red light on a major intersection. like two four lanes. during rush hour because I guess he felt since everything is slowed up he can just fuck right through.
Depending on your local that could be perfectly legal. It's called an Idaho Stop. You can treat stop signs as yields and red light like a stop sign. You're not supposed to treat a red light as a yield so if he's doing that it's illegal everywhere as far as I know.
My 2 cents is the closer to a downtown you get the better the drivers are because of proximity however the cyclists are shit at obeying rules. Outside downtown cars are horrible in respecting cyclists who usually end up better at obeying laws because of the speeds.
You're actually right and it goes down to how drivers respond to their surroundings. Areas with narrower streets, more traffic, and more pedestrians encourage drivers to be more observant passively.
When you have a wide, clear, straight road people pay less attention.
It's a psychology thing and some people are trying to design roads around the concept
Nah, you're correct. Any time a study is done on this it finds that either drivers and cyclists break the law at similar rates, or drivers break it more.
There's also the difference in why they do it. Drivers break the law out of convenience. Because it's easier to do, or because it gets them where they're going faster. Cyclists sometimes do that, but far more than drivers, they're likely to do it because it's safer. Because laws are often made for car drivers in ways that aren't appropriate to cyclists, and so breaking the law is often safer. The classic example is treating stop signs as give way signs in places that haven't implemented an Idaho Stop rule.
Sources:
Indeed, why should they? The rules of the road where made expressly for cars, not bikes, and there are several states which sensibly make carve outs for bicycles and motorcycles.
But, as you point out, the risk for breaking the rules--real or perceived--fall entirely on the cyclist, so I absolutely see no equivalence.
Ya don't break a rule; the car runs you over because distracted driver.
Ya break a rule to avoid distracted driver; you get ran over because your rule breaking in your tiny and light bicycle triggered the road rage of someone in a SUV whose control was entirely based on spite and the fact everyone else should follow rules without exception (that the state legislature carved for cyclists to try to minimize their deaths).
Being a cyclist commuter is fun, much recommended.
The problem with cars is that they immediately make every other form of transportation incredibly shitty.
Pedestrians and cyclists get killed. Buses get stuck in traffic.
I hate cars, but what am I supposed to do? Getting out of my car is just an invitation to get killed by one. And if I wanted to live entirely without a car, I'd have to move to a city, where I would never be more than 12-feet away from cars and have to cross a road every block, risking my life because of shitty fucking cars.
When we say, "We're not saying get rid of cars, we're just saying we need options", to not scare the carbrains, well, the only way to have real options (ie safe roads) is to have roads entirely without cars.
I would love for my city center to become car free. There is like a square mile that would make so much sense.
YUUP YUP YUP!
We have to get rid of these 'reforms after reforms' for car centric infraatructure and for car company, oil company, and plastics companies lobbyists because they will mever make us all happy. We CANNOT reform society in its current form to allow us to use cars and for all other people who use other forms of transportation to also be happy inside most municipalities. We are doing this right now and most of us are unhappy about our transportation. Car users get stuck in traffic, create traffic, and those who dont use cars get mowed down by them like its air.
WE NEED COMPLETE REVOLUTION. Reform will nnevevr work. We. Need. Revolution.
We have to completely revolutionize how we use our roads , transporarion paths , and transportation methods , and how we construct or even demolish different transporation infrastructure.
Making reforms around cars will lead us nowhere. Cars have always been a deadly or time consuming problem for all other people who use other forms of transportation...so.....revolutionize society so that cars are so rare that ONLY the governmental officials or people out in VERY open areas using cars recreationally ever get to use them. Ban cars from the majority of the innards of EVERY municipality. YOU DONT HAVE TO BUILD CAR-CENTRIC INFRASTRUCTURE CITIES AND TOWNS WHEN IT IS PRACTICALLY ILLEGAL FOR CARS TO BE OPERATED INSIDE THEM.
I think this creeping incrementalism definitely has a limit. I think the goal is to build enough of a political constituency that you can push for the big changes... but for real change, you eventually have to TRULY inconvenience drivers. Look how the fucking freak out about barriers... like there was a barrier protecting a bike lane that kept getting hit by cars... so they removed the barrier!! The best we can do is paint and stick strips that cars always drive over or park on, and they're still furious. So, yeah, we have to start defeating them on the local level, in places where it IS possible to live without even a drivers license--the kinds of places where the people with cars drive into for work and therefore don't have a direct vote.
Cyclists don’t obey the rules of the road to the same rigor as a car
Bullshit
Spend a few years downtown in any metropolitan area and see if you change your tune. The amount of cyclists (myself included) who drive through lights or advances, don't indicate directions, wrong way on a one way street, cutting through parking lots or alleys the list goes on and on.
No, it's objectively bullshit. It's been studied many times and the result always proves that carbrained nonsense to be bullshit.
Drivers break the law all the time. They run blatant reds. They fail to stop when safe to do so at a yellow. They speed. They ignore stop signs. They fail to give way to pedestrians. The pass cyclists too close. They fail to indicate correctly at roundabouts more often than they do it correctly.
The only difference is people are too carbrained to even notice these. Oh, and the reasons for it (cyclists tend to break the law for their own safety unlike car drivers who do it for convenience) and the consequences when they do (cyclists endanger nobody except occasionally themselves, drivers endanger everyone around them).
Makes sense actually, the rules of the road were made almost explicitly for cars and in many cases following all of them can put a cyclist in serious danger.
"Cyclists don't obey the rules of the road to the same rigor as a car."
Because you don't need a license for a bike, the rules are there because cars and motorbikes are incredibly dangerous compared to walking or biking (for everyone involved). A large part of people who bike don't know the rules because they don't need to, just the basic stuff and having situational awareness is enough. The issue is that many in all above mentioned kinds don't have that, they're either too dumb, thinking about something else or using their phones etc. But it's way more important for the people who are in control of the most dangerous vehicles to be the ones who know and follow the rules.
there's a lot of vroom vroom apologists who spend their days on these threads. it's wild.
Its like those people who go to the childfree forums and act like a 'genocide' is being committed against parenrs and wanna-be-parents ...
jfc forreal? that's a thing?
how do these fucks have so much free time?
bro hit up childfree lemmy or even r/childfree on reddit iif you can stand the new reddit and see for yourself.
Survey after survey shows that most people are currently parents or want to be parennts in the future.... WHAT GENOCIDE?!
fucking hell...
8 billion aren't enough people in the world, nah, it's genocide to not add to the problem.... wow.
lol @ https://lemmy.world/u/blarh downvoting these... he wants bebbies
I feel like this thread made it to some frontpages. Never good when that happens.
South Parks season premiere hasn't aged at all
South America*
This is on the north end of Key Biscayne, an island connected by bridge to Miami.
All the LOCAL drivers know to expect it. If someone is from out of town they would have no way of knowing that happens on that road unless there are signs posted or something. The dude is still a dipshit though.
Yeah, indeed, the argument of "everyone knows it" makes no sense, best case most locals know about it indeed (but even locals that usually aren't there at that time of the week probably never heard of it either).
This road is also literally like 1 mile long. In this clip I'm pretty sure the group is approaching the causeway that takes them off the little island they're touring and back into Miami. Lil Cooper just had to wait like 2 more minutes and he could have preserved his undercarriage.
"Share the road" goes both ways. It's a two way street so to say.
I see the highest throughput of people that road had all week now that it isn't blocked by cars for once.
Is it the highest throughout actually? Density sure, but lower density of people (in a car) per area or length of road at higher speed is still a higher throughout. Fast roads absolutely have a high throughout. Even during heavy traffic you often still go faster than bikes and the whole road is packed with cars at that point.
So... is it actually the highest throughout?
Bikes are not replacing cars 1:1, we instead need shorter distances etc. and reduce the required throughout to begin with.
Let's say they go around 1/4th of the speed limit (they go faster than that for sure) and let's say a car on this road is occupied by 2 people on average (which is generous).
To get the same throughput with cars, you need to put one car on the road (with safety distances) for every eight cyclists. No way that's feasible in this example.
Is it the highest throughout actually?
It's a lightly populated resort island off the coast of Miami, this is definitely the highest capacity of users it sees in any one moment.
Is this an officially sanctioned event that has been authorized to take over a whole road?
If not, slower traffic should keep to the right. Share the road. Don't be a dick. It's not hard.
Edit: just realized where I am. This could have all been avoided with better public transportation. Fuck cars.
Edit #2: as a society we should absolutely be building public transportation and protected bike lanes. However, there are a shocking number of people talking about "entitled" this and "entitled" that and have no idea what the actual laws are for sharing the road using the current existing infrastructure in this video.
This video appears to be an asshole in a car passing some assholes on bicycles.
Florida Statute § 316.081(3): On a road, street, or highway having two or more lanes allowing movement in the same direction, a driver may not continue to operate a motor vehicle in the furthermost left-hand lane if the driver knows or reasonably should know that he or she is being overtaken in that lane from the rear by a motor vehicle traveling at a higher rate of speed.
Florida Statute § 316.2065(5)(a): A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing must ride in the bicycle lane or, if there is no bicycle lane on the roadway, as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway
Every cyclist in the left lane blocking the faster traffic should be written a ticket.
Unless they've gone through some kind of permitting process then they have no more moral ground than the street takeover assholes that go around shutting down roads to do donuts.
THANK YOU.
If an evernt is not officially sanctioned ? In my opinion ANYRHING, AND I MEAN ANYTHING, can happen in there and I wouldnt care. Unless there are kids there? I dont care for anyone there. Sorry. If anyone wants to hold a. massive event that will DEFINITELY clog up a public road or area? Yooooo you better fucking get that bitch approved first. Like the only massive public event that doesnt need to be approved is a massive public violent protest ... and thats it.
I remember watching this one video of a guy who crashed died during one of those unofficial 'street takeover' events and he ended killing a few other people there who were happily watching it and also clogging up that road and the comments were so sad for them....
uhhhh....
I find it very hard to feel sad for adults who dont tell anyone that they will clog up the public areas that WE ALL PAY TAXES FOR, , intentionally clog up a road, drive their cars in circles at irrantionally dangerous speeds, race each other on unofficial race tracks , and then end up learning the valuable lesson that 'Moving really quickly has never been a problem, its just the stopping really quickly.'
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