Axon says cops are asking it to make its automatic license plate readers (ALPRs) look different from Flock cameras because Flock vandalism has become so widespread, according to comments Axon’s CEO made in a now deleted webinar.

The comments highlight how Axon is trying to take advantage of sustained opposition against Flock's license plate cameras, with one law enforcement customer suggesting a camera redesign would “help with the optics while we batten down the hatches” as the backlash spreads.

As 404 Media has reported, some towns and cities are switching from Flock to Axon’s cameras after cops did lookups for ICE in Flock, tracked a woman who self-administered an abortion, and have repeatedly abused their access to stalk ex-spouses. ALPRs constantly scan the license plate, brand, model, and other identifying features of all vehicles that drive past the camera and then make this timestamped log of activity searchable by law enforcement without a warrant.

In an August 26 webinar that was hosted on Axon’s official Vimeo page called “From backlash to trust,” Axon Chief Customer Officer Mike Wagers took a question from the remote audience and asked, “is there any talk — and there has been talk — to redesign Outpost, our fixed ALPR camera, to not look exactly like a Flock camera?”

“We are looking at [...] do we change the general shape,” Rick Smith, Axon’s CEO, replied. At another point in the webinar, Smith brought up Axon’s Lightpost product, which is an ALPR and AI-powered camera that attaches to an existing streetlight. “Frankly, we’ve had a lot of customers saying, hey, we’d like something that looks different because there is all this blowback. ​​It's harder to vandalize because it's up higher,” he said.

Smith also said, “We’ve had some people say they’d like to see us make just a different camera, because our ALPR camera looks like an ALPR camera.” Another idea Smith brought up, pending customer feedback, is to go in the other direction and make ALPRs more explicit, with signs showing where they are located and a description of the city’s ALPR policies.

*Edit: it just occurred to me what all these cameras are. Its the same as in the old days when the French British monarchies sationed troops on the street corner because of their fear: the British because they were cramping down on their colonies, and the French because they were scared of their own people. In fact, America's debt problem closely resembles how it was leading up to and during the Meeting of the Estates General. There, handsom giveaways were given to the wealthy 2 estates at the expense of the common man's estate. This was all while France was drowning in national debt (seem familiar?).

To combat the unrest, the monarchies stationed troops on the street corners. These cameras are the same thing from the Epstein class; tracking where the citizenry goes and who they are with. This doesn't seem like it'll end well.

all 45 comments

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[–] 91 points 2 months ago (22 children)

Doesn't matter, destroy them anyway.

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  • [–] [S] 37 points 2 months ago* (18 children)

    Doesn’t matter, destroy them anyway.

    You going to be able to reach these?

    an ALPR and AI-powered camera that attaches to an existing streetlight. “Frankly, we’ve had a lot of customers saying, hey, we’d like something that looks different because there is all this blowback. ​​It’s harder to vandalize because it’s up higher

    Maybe a paintball gun? What about a crossbow?

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  • [–] 25 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I think a higher powered laser pointer could ruin the camera lens.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It is really vitally important that you not go out and buy a green laser that shines between 490 and 570 nanometers and has more than a thousand mw of power, because something like that could be harmful to flock cameras if shone directly at them.

    So let me be clear. Do not do that. I can provide links to specific products to avoid if DMed.

    Other helpful info here: https://www.thebiglead.com/lasers-damage-flock-cameras-warning/

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    And while you're not doing that, be sure to wear non-identifying clothes that covers the entire body and to leave all electronic devices at home.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Also be sure to not damage another person with them, please. Do not accidentally blind a stranger in your quest for vengeance. Eye protection needed for that power is a must

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Are we so sheltered that throwing rocks doesn't even come to mind? Does anyone here know what David's sling, from The David and Goliath story, looks like in action?

    Not that there isn't morr advanced readily available projectile technology available

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I've wanted to learn how to use a sling. And also a blow gun. I mean seriously, that's gotta be untraceable

    Remember the guy who was killed by having a tiny pellet of some radioactive material embedded in his skin when a stranger bumped him with the tip of his umbrella, if what I read when I was very young correctly

    Nope, looked it up. I was close though!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

    While at the bus stop, he reported feeling a slight sharp pain, as if from an insect bite or sting, on his right thigh. He reportedly saw a man picking up an umbrella off the ground behind him.[17]

    ...

    Research Medical Officer, found a tiny pellet in the tissue sample.[5]

    The pellet measured 1.70 millimetres (0.067 in) in diameter ... Considering possible poisons, scientists hypothesised that the pellet might have contained ricin.[5]

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    something that can knock it down or permanantly damage it, i dont think those 2 are going to be able to do it.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    A crossbow bolt through a camera lense? In the Middle Ages, crossbows would be used against lots of armors. Maybe not against plate armor, but chainmail. Not sure how rugged ALPR cameras are compared to chainmail, but I'd imagine it would be less.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Modern crossbows are a bit terrifying. Ive been shooting all manner of bows most of my life, and there are crossbows that will fling a projectile well over 100m/s. I have to have a decent target for mine so I don't shoot all the way through when practicing, I'm sure electronics and plastic won't even slow a crossbow bolt down.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I really am hoping for a esp32 hack that we can just force a looped viseo feed into them. Destroying is cool. But disabling them without them knowing. Chef's kiss.

    I heard their security is absolute garbage.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    They're getting better after all the hacks and blowback. Randomized MACs, disabling Bluetooth, transmitting only on activity to hide packet traffic, and using cell as a primary connection.

    Which means they're scared.

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  • [–] 40 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    The stupid fuckers who think ALPRs are a good idea are also the stupid fuckers that think that the public only hate Flock ALPRs.

    They can’t understand that the public hate all ALPRs.

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  • [–] 34 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    They can’t understand that the public hate all ALPRs.

    Oh no, they 100% understand that. They are betting on more obfuscation of the installations being enough to fool the idiot public into thinking they're not being tracked.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It is amazing how stupid people assume everyone else is as stupid as them. Dunning-Kruger effect in full force.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    It’s not really about ALPRs though. ALPRs have been in use in some form since the 1970s. The issue is the information they gather and where it goes.

    This focused hatred of “ALPRs” is good in the short term to drive change but not in the long term for sustainable action.

    For example, all consumer automobiles in the US require front-facing collision avoidance cameras by 2029 under federal automotive safety laws. Tack an ALPR system on, use the built in cellular and satellite collections and all of a sudden every vehicle becomes an ALPR camera on wheels.

    People are filmed and photographed all the time these days; think things like business CCTV, home camera systems like Ring, pre-existing DOT cameras, dash cams, people filming their lives and everywhere they go etc. etc.

    In the long term people need to control the collection and use of the data and establish some significant penalties for misuse. It would be nice if, in the US, we could establish that any data gathered by ALPRs is covered under the 4th amendment and require a warrant for starters.

    I also think the data should be required to be stored by the government agency utilizing it, no third parties.

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  • [–] 54 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    "People hate the Flock cameras so we'll replace them with a different brand of camera." Are they really that stupid to think it's the "Flock" part and not the "camera" part that people are upset about? Or that making them look different will make everyone go, "oh, that's all right then as long as they don't look like the Flock ones go ahead and surveil us"?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    The general public doesn't have a good memory either. If they stop seeing cameras and when the news cycle changes to some other topic, I fully expect the public will forget all about flock cameras.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    lol the People are about to go from Fuck Flock to Fuck Axon. It's not gonna stop until the tech fascists are gone.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    They don't get that the only winning move PR-wise is to drop those cameras and work on transparency.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    Cops: people are attacking them because they are black

    People: what?

    Cops: it’s what we would do…

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I bet money this works for them. Almost to the level that people will think flock was a psyop to direct hate before most counties switch to whatever nondescript alpr they can get their hands on. Americans have the collective memory of a goldfish and the outage will move on to some dumb bullshit trump pulls in a week

    Or they just start directly integrating them into fixtures like traffic and street lights.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago*

    Coke vs. Pepsi.

    "What? They are both sugar water that is terrible for you?"

    --American consumers

    Axon is The Choice of a New Generation (TM) !

    "What? They are both part of a dystopian panopticon being built by collusion between oligarchs and fascists?"

    --American citizens

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    It! Methheads and crackis…. The new look has more copper. Just saying.

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  • 30 comments in c/privacy@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 49 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Doesn't matter what it looks like. Destroy em all.

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  • [–] 44 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    The problem isn't flock, the problem is cameras you dumb motherfuckers.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    The problem isn't cameras.
    The problem is lack of responsibility that needs to come with power that is given to all on the other side of the cameras.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    Well yes, but also the cameras are a fucking problem. They've literally designed to stalk you, and everyone else in the country.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago* (11 children)

    Well, guess what saved me from a drunk cop beating me up and throwing me in jail for false charges?


    Those cameras are just in the wrong hands, stalking the wrong people.
    But the cameras are useful.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    I'm sorry that happened to you but building big brother is not the answer to stopping corrupt cops.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Don't worry. My personal camera is not trying to be your big brother.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Oh, so you're just incapable of following the conversation. Got it.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    No. I just like leaving people to interpolate the steps that I don't write.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Saying you're okay with cameras in a thread about systematic tracking of every car in an area accessed by provably bad people and institutions, only to go "trolol muh big brain I was talking about dashcams" is one hell of big step to omit.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    "I let other people interpret what I mean so that I seem smart and mysterious and like I know what I'm talking about, despite the fact I'm an ignorant bootlicker who doesn't actually know anything"

    Is exactly what you just said

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    "They're not hurting the people they're supposed to be hurting..!"

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    they genuinely think we are stupid

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    Might as well destroy all cameras then :3

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago
    [–] 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Doesn't matter if they change, people will just add it to their list to look for...

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Except now they'll be taking down street lights, too - making everyone less safe, which is the exact opposite of the claimed purpose for these things. It's so fucking predictable.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Why are they putting private products on public hardware? Also who the hell is removing or knocking down street lights? This sounds like some maga news misinformation prepared to the lowest common denominator aka their fanbase.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago*

    NEW PACKAGING

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Next up:.... Axon!!!

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Ah yes, those surveillances are bad. Our surveillances are good!

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Like that'll stop anyone.

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  • 2 comments in c/usa view that post
    [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I hope people continue to attack them. The issue isn’t Flock. There’s no “good” surveillance cameras. It’s not a PR problem.

    💯 1
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