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[–] 127 points 2 months ago (8 children)

Do it all again when msft undoes your work on the next update

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  • [–] 63 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    Not even next update. I ran a debloater script that removed OneDrive and within two hours it had been reinstalled with no intervention from me.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Is there no solution to this?

    My first thought is an IP ban list outside of the computer itself. Put it on your home router maybe.

    I guess it could be getting installed from a binary that exists on the OS already.

    I haven't used windows in a long time. But it's wild how much work people have to do to decide which programs are or are not installed on their PC.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Is there no solution to this?

    Linux...

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    That's been my solution. The nerd in me just wants to know. I feel like windows and "windows debloat scripts" or the like have gotten worse together. It's like all the people that use to write cool programs or apps for Windows left for Linux and never looked back. (Except the game cracks I guess? Maybe that's even dead now though idk)

    I mean, it's a good thing. But, it surprises me how awful the nerd support is for Windows now. I guess it's so annoying to work with that no one even bothers anymore.

    It just feels like something that should have a universal solution by now.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    It’s like all the people that use to write cool programs or apps for Windows left for Linux and never looked back.

    I have no idea if it is true, but it would make a lot of sense. Why spend your time fixing MS's for-profit shit, for free, when there is a viable open source alternative?

    I wonder if there will come a tipping point? MS is making Windows really hard to love, so who in the altruistic group will stay on Windows when the mythical Year Of The Linux Desktop truly comes?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    The solution for a lot of these random issues with reinstalling stuff is to not use weird scripts to do things you can just handle normally.

    Just uninstall it like a regular app and it doesn't come back on its own from my experience. I've literally never had it come back on any of my systems, my family's, or customers, by doing it that way.

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  • [–] 48 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Sometimes when seeing Linux Memes like this, I think whether this one user with their 1-man-linux-hating-community simply blocked all these communities or reads them as some sort of rage-fuel.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    He's actually somewhat knowledgeable about Linux and he's putting a lot of effort into finding hairs in the soup. I think the guy just enjoys being an asshole and if it wasn't Linux he'd pick something else.

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I’m convinced he’s a fed running a propaganda campaign because there’s no way someone’s expending that much time and effort and not getting paid for it.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago*

    I assume that he has a severe mental health problem. I had a neighbor who’s kid had schizophrenia and would spend all day writing about how we were hacking his dreams and other nonsense. The sheer volume of letters he wrote to us about it was staggering. A ream of paper or more landed in our mailbox every week. It’s amazing how much someone can do when they only can focus on a single thing and have way too much energy.

    I felt sorry for the kid, when he was on his meds he was perfectly nice, if kinda odd.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    Are they? I have not checked their posts in depth. The ones I have seen in my feed were along the lines of "lol, Linux users do not shower / don't get women" or "if Linux good, why not used in Business" (what is a wild thing to say, considering... Well Servers), so that's the baseline I've had in my mind

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  • [–] [S] 64 points 2 months ago (19 children)

    Ran into this shit yesterday trying to set up a laptop for someone where I had no internet access.

    Imagine having everything ready to go on a USB drive and you can’t get past the second screen unless you find WiFi.

    At least this command still works, but damn.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    windows didn’t have the drivers for my mobo, so i could use neither ethernet nor wifi.

    imagine having to have a usb to ethernet dongle ready to set up windows.

    what a fucking shitshow…

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  • [–] 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Video games have gone this way too. Pop in disc or cartridge, go to play, forced to download updates that fix what was shipped in a broken state.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    And then they have the gall to point to sales of physical media being down.

    Like, if you make your physical media shit on purpose, you can't use that to support your argument for digital-only distrubition. It's actually infuriating.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I work in IT and half the time spent deploying a new device is getting around Windows' bullshit.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    You can't be serious, or you must not support Windows much.

    I don't think much of my workplace's Windows desktop "engineer" but even they've put together (and keep updated) an image that can get from blank drive to fully installed, updated, baseline programs for our company installed, all settings tweaked to get rid of 90% of the dumb Windows bloat (have to leave the shit the execs like in place) in 30 minutes unattended.

    The server builds my team oversees are 10 minutes setups, if that.

    Like, I've been desktop support, and installing and configuring the department specific programs could be such annoying shit that you'd end up saving more time reimaging when something fucked up than to try and fix it, but the initial OS install was rarely the issue. Maybe for the first few days with entirely new hardware while we figured out the right drivers, but that was it.


    Linux is leagues better than Windows, but some of this shit I keep seeing in these Linux communities is batshit. You personally not being familiar with Windows isn't a reason it sucks, any more than people saying Linux is complicated is a reason for them to hate Linux.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I am not unfamiliar with Windows in any sense thank you. Windows is objectively bad, there is no good reason that one must maintain their own custom image to install an operating system to a usable capacity because the vendor image is so disgustingly bloated that getting any real-world use is a chore.

    And it's not even recent Windows enshittification that is the problem, it is the foundational architecture of the NT system. With a Linux operating system, you install, and you're done, on Windows, you install, then you need to go out and do 15+ updates that for some reason aren't done during install, then you need to go out and get all your drivers for your hardware. It's poorly designed, slow, clunky, and, especially considering that Windows doesn't have a package manager and a curated software repository (Winget + MS Store does NOT count), unbelievably insecure.

    My organization has pretty much decided that Windows is on the way out, it's just going to be a very long time for us to transfer to Linux-based operating systems. Even after getting Windows to a just-about acceptable standard, it's still far heavier than any Linux-based OS would be, which for our thin clients is genuinely proving a problem as many of our staff have high memory usage workflows and are frequently seeing programs crash due to memory limitations.

    Unless you are severely, clinically deluded, there is no way you can genuinely state that what you hear in Linux communities is "batshit"; everyone knows Windows is dying, even Microsoft...

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    He's talking about corporate environments that have the resources to have done the work to make Windows work, they're not starting from zero - they've either got an SCCM environment with a PE that has all their configs and drivers preloaded or they've worked hard to make intune autopilot work (which still requires either the OEM or a curated image for the hardware configs).

    He's not talking about setups that are doing installs 1:1

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Network installers

    NixOs is in shambles

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Every time i see a comment about NixOS it makes me even more wary about trying it.

    Everyone jokes about Arch being the 'from the ground up' OS, but Nix feels like it embodies those memes.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago*

    Yeah nixos is a lot of learning and a lot of writing and tweaking .nix files.

    That being said, once you have a setup you like that works it means installing on a new machine is mostly just running a couple of install commands and all your apps/settings/environment secrets/anything you’ve declared in your nix config (like dotfiles for apps unsupported by home-manager) come with you and are version controlled on the system and in code.

    But it doesn’t work like a normal Linux system, there is no /bin/bash among thousands of other things, so it’s for a niche audience where it’s either a server with infra as code or a desktop that requires a lot of work to maintain but has some incredible advantages (like generations)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Yeah it was my pipeline. But be wary, this is a hard path to take. The os is great. The package manager is great. The nix config language? Hahaha welcome to hell! It takes at least 6 months to get comfortable with it. And still, sometimes you can still come across a config file that will be totally alien to you. And when you need something not in the repos... time to learn how to package stuff!

    It's not to discourage you, but be warned. It takes time. I had 5 attempts at it before it became my daily driver.

    Keep a working distro on the side. And when you start your computer, think about what you want to do. If you think you can do everything you want today in NixOs, boot it. If you have a lot missing/do not feel like configuring it, boot the other distro. Just start small. Do some little challenges like turning your config into a flake, create a nix os module, split your configuration in smaller more maintainable files, create a systemd service, wrangle with that damn home manager that keeps making everything so confusing.

    And arch is actually the one from scratch. NixOs is intimately linked to systemd. Nix also requires some base dependencies like git and curl, so it's not from scratch. However you could argue that NixOs is a "make a distro from the kitchen utensils and a recipe".

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Next time during setup do this: 1.don't connect to a network

    1. Either shift+f10 or Ctrl+shift+f10 to bring up a command prompt.

    3.Type: start ms-cxh:localonly

    1. Hit enter and the create user box will pop up.

    2. You can now create a local user account.

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    [–] 52 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    AFAIK the BypassNRO method doesn't work anymore, instead:

    β€œWhen it asks for one's Microsoft account, press Shift + F10, and type start ms-cxh:localonly. This prompts the window to create a local account instead. πŸ–•β€ ―Bypass Windows 11 Microsoft account prompt

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    If you're installing pro, you can just say it's for work and click "join a domain instead" and then just never join a domain

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    I had to use bypass to get around the network part. Because for some reason it wouldn't let me go past that step, and it also doesn't offer static ip settings. We don't have dhcp for our main network.

    It's even worse for notebooks. I had several new machines where Windows Setup didn't even have the required network drivers.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Just today and yesterday, one of my friends asked me to upgrade their windows server for their small business.

    Installing a fucking windows took me 6 hours. This whole shit would be done in 40min I if I could install and setup Debian on their server.

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  • [+] -20 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It could be done in 15 minutes with Windows as well, if you actually knew what you were doing. Hell, I'll give you 40 minutes if you know what you're doing and don't have proper tools already setup.

    Windows is a shitshow, but your personal lack of familiarity isn't evidence of that, lol.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    I work as a sysadmin (luckily I work mostly with Linux). We have lots of tools for windows server setup on our company, and for most deployments, we have templates and checklists to deploy as quickly as possible.

    It still takes at least 2 hours to deploy windows server from a checkpoint, and that's skipping all the initial installation. Most of that time is spent updating, debloating, and setting the most basic stuff up.

    It takes me less time to set up a Linux server from scratch, without any checkpoints, than it takes my coworkers to set up a windows server for the 9999th time, with a decade worth of tools.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    Shift + f10 for cmd. Then do "start ms-cxh:localonly" and hit enter. Enjoy local user profile without internet.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I'll bite, I don't mind making an ass out of myself.

    I've done installs of linux where the fact the internet connection was shit slowed it down. why is the fucking Β·iso 4gb if it still needs shit from the internet?

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  • [–] 26 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    the usual suspect is updates of all those packages since the iso was published..

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    To add to that: Some years ago, "remixing" installation/ive isos was kinda popular (changing defaults, installing software etc.). The first step was to bring the system up to date. After that, the actual installation process only downloaded small, incremental changes (depending on how long you waited).

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago*

    start ms-cxh:localonly or one of those rufus unattended things are the only ways i could ever set up Windows anymore, their stock config is some bullshit

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Back in the early 2000's I started playing with Linux on old machines and have used Linux on an off since. Now I only have one Windows laptop that I need for a few very specific things and it's Linux for any backend stuff. I've got pi's, nucs and a NAS, all Linux now.

    I am so grateful for all the hard work people have put in over the last two decades making sure we can step away from Windows without having to go to the Apple or Chrome walled gardens. I've made a career working in the Microsoft stack and I'm so done with them.

    Now if I could just figure out how to turn my windows laptop into a VM on my ProxMox machine.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    Out of curiosity, what happens if you image the laptop drive and boot it under VirtualBox (keeping the Linux host offline, so the Windows guest can't phone home)? Potentially useful: https://superuser.com/questions/614400/how-can-i-clone-a-hard-drive-directly-to-a-vdi-image

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to dig into this. I have no qualms about pulling my HD from the laptop and cloning it, so I should be able to try a bunch of different methods until it works.

    For the stuff I need to do on my laptop, RDP is all I need so it can sit on a server in the basement waiting for me to start it up when I need it.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    Who says you have to install Linux? Just run it directly on a USB drive to be extra flexible!

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  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    Until people can buy a computer CHEAPLY and easily at Walmart with a distro preinstalled, Linux isn't going to make a lot of headway very fast. They are too lazy to be bothered to download a distro, make a bootable iso, wipe and do a fresh install.

    And yes, they are that lazy unless really pushed to do it.

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  • [+] 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    That's the link you need to break. Until then, Linux is stuck as an also ran.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    That's the refusal to learn. People really hate learning anything new these days. And that includes many here.

    Still, there is hope. With the common idea of "App Stores" really taking hold with users, thanks to the ubiquity of cell phone ownership and Chromebooks, users are comfortable with a software manager that gets referred to as App Store. And distros are starting to act upon that by simply rename their software management software and adding a colorful friendly UI to it. It's marketing.

    There are 1000's of programs available that can meet almost every "regular user's" daily needs. What is lacking is a universal packaging format that is easy to use. Ubuntu has their "we dropped the ball" Snaps and Fedora pushes Flatpaks. AppImages also exist, but not to the extent as Flatpaks and are a bit more of a hassle to use than a Flatpak. And it appears that Flatpaks are currently leading as the universal software management race. If all distros were to agree to one package format, that would remove one of the biggest hurdles and kills the .exe argument. And that seems unlikely at this point in time. Even die hard Linux users will argue against it. But until at least the most common distros hop on that bus, Windows users will resist your KDE laptop.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Even when I offered my father to do this for him, even picking Zorin OS (since it seems to be decently close to a Windows look and feel). He refused stating that he's not techsavvy enough to use it.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Do you know the Secretary Problem?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem

    Your father's been using computers for some number of years. It's possible he's been using computers for longer than he will continue using computers. From his perspective, the current edition of Windows is better than anything that's come before it, so it's the rational choice to stick with it until the end.

    To get around this, you would basically need to set up a second machine with Zorin so that he can get some context before making a decision. That way, in the very realistic scenario where he decides it's not for him, he hasn't lost anything.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Windows just dug it's own grave over the years, and still fails to die....

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    Many Linii (and even BSDeez and various Archaeums) are more "download to a USB stick and use" now, you don't even need to install them!

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    Or dont connect to a network during setup and do this.

    OOBE mode.

    1. Ctrl+shift+f10 or shift+f10
    2. Type: start ms-cxh:localonly
    3. Create local account

    Finish initial windows boot, then follow up with O & O shut up 10 at minimum before connecting to a network.

    Then there is the fun of going through the task scheduler to remove telemetry.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    I mean you don't even have to install, just boot the iso and click try now

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  • then quit using it. take off your leash.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    My main gripe is the clicking.

    Clicking clicking clicking.

    I've got keybord navigation down to an art-

    But sometimes you have to click.

    You have to move your hand from your... Keyboard, let's say, and switching to mouse, and that split second matters because it throws everything out of rhythm, causing friction where none is needed.

    Clicking, clicking, clicking.

    That's my main gripe.

    The clicking.

    I am Anna, and this is my testimony.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Commit your testimony to an archive.
    You could even name it... Anna's archive.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago*

    I'm not a comic book villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke to you if there were even the slightest possibility you could affect the outcome? I registered that domain 35 minutes ago.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    mfs will learn powershell to debloat windows 11 and wade through regedit but the intuitive linux terminal is STILL too goddamn scary

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    intuitive linux terminal

    Which one is that? Powershell is way more intuitive than bash and I like bash.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Is it? I find them both equally unintuitive tbh. You really just have to memorize the commands you frequently use, or keep looking them up.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Powershells commands are "Verb-Noun" and it makes it easy to search for the command you need. For example Get-Help Get-* will give you a list of all the "Get" commands and a brief description of what they do. Get-Verb will list the approved verbs so you know what verbs to search for. All within the shell. If there's anything like that in bash I haven't found it. I always have to search the web to figure out what I'm trying to do with it. Which can be annoying if I'm working directly on a headless system. Powershell also has aliases built in for bash and cmd commands so you can use those if you're familiar with them. I hate Microsoft but it's one thing I have to give hand to them.

    That's not to say bash is bad. It's great. It's just not nearly as intuitive.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    In bash if you type the verb, then hit tab it will list the possible options, right? Is that not the same kind of thing?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Tab completion isn't really what I'm talking about here. Powershell's intuitiveness comes from the ease of finding the command you need. For instance if you type "copy" into bash and hit tab you're not going to get anything. That's because the command for copying a file in bash is "cp". Now, how do you find that out using only the shell? You can use apropos, but who's going to be able to figure that out without a web search? I had to try several variations of "find commands in bash" just now to get Google to mention it. Most things in bash are like this, there's no real naming convention and most of the time the names are pretty meaningless by themselves. It's a big barrier for people who are new to it or only use it sporadically.

    Conversely, typing "copy" into powershell and hitting tab you will get a number of options which shouldn't take much for a beginner to locate copy-item from there or you can find it via the previous methods I mentioned.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    I genuinely think you may just be more familiar with PS. I use "Get-Printer" all the time, but it's not like I was able to discover that command or syntax without web searches. Same with "cp" in bash. I had to learn it and use it, but I'm never going to forget it now. Something that seems inconsistent/unintuitive to me in PS, is some commands specify an object with:

    -Name ="the name"
    

    Other times it's like:

    Name "the name"
    

    I keep a notebook handy for things that I use as frequently as several times a week.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Searching commands online is a perfectly valid way to find things, especially if you don't know how to discover them within the shell. My point is that powershell is fantastic for that and bash is not. Years ago, I read maybe 1/3 of a powershell book and it was enough to set me off and figure most things out on my own from there. It's rare I have to go online to find something. I've read/watched quite of bit of bash content over the years and I can't say the same. I still struggle with it or have to go back and check my notes all the time. I am more familiar with powershell but I've been using bash quite a bit longer. For me that highlights what I'm talking about here in terms of intuitiveness.

    As for the inconsistency issue, I'm sure there are inconsistencies in either shell but I'd need more information to explain this one, the only time I can recall something like what you're referring to would be commands where -Name is a parameter, vs something like a -Filter parameter where you entering name as what you're filtering for but that would need more than -Filter Name "name" to work(I think). For the most part I find powershell to be very consistent once you understand what's going on. Bash as well, but it's harder to get to the "understand what's going on" stage.

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