Its an objective fact among every country that publishes crime statistics. These countries all vary widely in every other metric you can imagine (social, economic, political etcetera). But, crime being disproportionately commited by men is a universal constant. Nobody has an objectively correct answer to this question, it's just a prompt for discussion. Share your opinion, whatever it may be. However, please don't be a dick to other commenters. Disagreement, good faith, many view points and discussion is the goal here.

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[–] 35 points 3 months ago (7 children)

In most cases, I believe it's a mix of hormones and traditionalism. Men have generally been more likely to seek grandeur by participating in violent activities, or, violent activities are demanded by their particular social group. Sometimes a mix of both.

I think it also it boils down to how gender roles are taught by different cultures. If men are taught to be the risk takers, it only makes sense that boundaries and laws will get pushed more by men. After all, intentionally breaking a law may simply be viewed as a calculated risk and not as something that should never be done.

Honestly speaking, it seems too easy of an answer to just blame male physiology. The social aspects of this can't be ignore either.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    This is it. It's entirely a social cause. There's an unstated rule that males are generally disposable unless they have status and/or resources.

    This leads to men with low self esteem and nothing to lose, no hope, taking risks and taking out their frustration on society. It's both for survival, to have some kind of relevance, and because what the hell else are they going to do when the coping mechanisms run out.

    I have no idea how to solve this.. but it's entirely caused by capitalism, as per usual. When people are valued only by a dollar amount, this is what happens.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    I had a feeling someone would say "it's entirely caused by capitalism". I do think a large chunk has to do with the social settings but I don't think its 100% of the issue. Saying financial benefit is the root cause is pretty reductive in my opinion. I think crime would still exist in a stateless, classless and moneyless society.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago

    It's not just 'financial benefit,' it's everything that comes with it. Exploiting the environment and people, consumerism substituting meaning. Individuality over community, and a desperate rat race giving us no time or means to look past the prison bars.

    Crime would exist everywhere, but there's other societal configurations that would reduce it or completely change the distribution.

    We have crime in large part because it 'costs too much' to prevent it.

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  • [–] 41 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Cuz women don’t have the balls to commit crime.

    This is a joke.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I think a mix of factors, the ones I think about are:

    There is often no fallback. After a certain point there is no one to take care of you so if you fail your options quickly run thin. This leads to feeling increased pressure to do high risk activities.

    I also think men value their lives less. There is a certain line of thought that is in every mans head where they are pissed off and they look at their life and they look at what they're pissed off at and they think "What if I just threw it all away to destroy that thing" at least I could say my life was useful. For most men this check fails because their lives are decent but for people on the bink I can see them thinking its worth to trade their life to take someone elses. If I were in the US i'd probably trade my life for Trump's if I thought i could do it.

    Biology, higher propensity for taking extreme risks, tolerance for violence, physically stronger on average, mentally mature slower, wider distribution across the iq bellcurve. We grow up fighting each other for fun, we see and learn about millions of us dying in wars, we see how failures are treated in society, we see a lot of media showing 'failures' lashing out at society.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    Yeah I mean at the very beginning men are born more frequently than women. In high school they explained that as men are more likely to participate in deadly activities. You gave a well thought out answer with a lot of things I think are accurate and relevant, thanks!

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    More males are conceived, but more are miscarried, more are stillbirths, more die in childhood, young adulthood and middle age, and by the time you are my age there are more women than men. I think some of that is XX conferring resistance to some genetic diseases though.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Can anyone even measure the amount of crime committed?

    Or is it only the crimes caught, and charged in a court of law.

    Because they are not the same thing.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Since the stats are only by who gets caught, I can't be sure that men actually commit more crime as opposed to simply more men get caught. Maybe women are simply better at crime. 🤷‍♂️

    /s

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I know you're being sarcastic but, I do think this skews things a bit. Maybe not a significant amount but, a bit. My SIL was all of 5' and 90 pounds. Her ex husband before my brother was 6'5" big dude. She would beat the ever loving fuck out of this guy and then laugh in his face about how the police (her family no less) would never believe she did it. (Yes my brother was shocked when this happened to him. Yes he did get away)

    Mix that in with the way society views teachers having sex with students. Adult male on minor girl = predo. Adult female on minor male = OMG he is so lucky. Ew. Just ew.

    And look at how many people think men can't get raped. Unfortunately, a lot of those people are male police officers too.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    And look at how many people think men can't get raped.

    Well yes, but also no. Those people will still acknowledge men can be raped..by men. It isn't "men can't be raped" but "women cannot rape," and "only men can rape."

    Many places, by law, agree with this. They say rape requires penetration specifically with a penis, else; sexual assault at best. That means women cannot rape men or other women, technically, legally speaking, in those areas.

    Even women who do recognize men can be raped most often don't actually care, they just tell you how it doesn't matter because it "happens to women more." I can't deny that it does, but minimizing men's experiences like a frat bro because of "muh ratio" probably isn't the best look and they should take a long look within themselves.

    Even if you can "legally" defend yourself. Ok, you try that. See who goes to jail tonight. Protip, it's you.

    Even if you do just lay back and take it, then call the cops and try to press sexual assault charges, good luck! First of all, they'll probably tell you without proof they can't even charge her with the "max," sexual assault, there's no rape kits for men, and you're gay for not enjoying it.

    You try and tell your friends and "cancel" her socially from the friend group? They'll call you gay too, don't worry.

    So fuck me I guess, and if you're a woman you don't legally need my permission to do it, so that's something.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    To somewhat play Devil's Advocate, I would highlight that the stats don't show who commits more crime, but who gets caught more. If no-one arrests you, (or if a court finds you not guilty), you won't be in the stats.

    In my country, for instance, police can stop and search you if they have "reasonable suspicion" that you're carrying something illegal (stolen good, drugs, weapons etc.). If police are operating under the assumption that men commit more crime than women, they're far more likely to be suspicious of a man committing the same crime as a woman.

    I haven't read anything that's about gender bias specifically at this level of policing, but I do know there's a lot of research (especially in the US) on how racial bias causes black neighbourhoods to be more heavily policed than neighbourhoods with comparable crime levels, leading to a self-reinforcing cycle where heavier policing leads to increased belief that black people commit more crime, which leads to heavier policing^[1][2]

    I do know that after an arrest has been made, women tend to fare better than men; they are less likely to be sentenced, and when they are, they tend to receive less severe sentences than men, even for equivalent crimes^[3][4] . This is speculative, but I imagine this has a cascading effect — if there is a crime where the punishment could range from community service to a prison sentence, then the person who gets community service is statistically less likely to reoffend than the person who goes to prison^[5]

    All that in mind, I'm pretty confident that the gender ratio in crime statistics gives a skewed impression of who actually commits more crime, and that women are effectively undercounted if we're talking about who commits more crime — though I can't guess on to what degree this is the case. However, it's entirely possible that women commit crimes at a similar rate to men, or even at a higher rate. We can't really know.

    And to finish off this comment with a slightly more shitposty answer that still links into my broader point, it's possible that women commit as much crime as men, but the statistics are skewed towards men because women are more effective criminals.

    I include this last possibility because I am uncomfortable with how you framed things in your question, with phrases like "crime being disproportionately committed by men is a universal constant". Statistics are never Truth, and are, at best, only ever an approximation. Stats can give us a sense of clarity in an overwhelming world by reducing down complexity into much more easily parsed, quantitative data, often presented in an easy to visualise manner. It feels objective. However, statistics only serve to mask the underlying bias in what data we choose to collect, who collects it, and how — which means that treating statistics as objective can be dangerous due to making us less aware of biases and inequality, and thus even less objective.

    I like the way that the feminist philosopher Donna Haraway puts it; she describes data visualisations as "the god trick of seeing everything from nowhere"^[4][5]. I'mma quote a long passage from an excellent book here, because I don't think I can explain it any better than this:

    "The view from nowhere—from a distance, from up above, like a god—may be data visualization’s most signature feature. It’s also the most ethically complicated to navigate for the ways in which it masks the people, the methods, the questions, and the messiness that lies behind clean lines and geometric shapes. Haraway calls it a trick because it makes the viewer believe that they can see everything, all at once, from an imaginary and impossible standpoint. But it’s also a trick because what appears to be everything, and what appears to be neutral, is always what she terms a partial perspective. And in most cases of seemingly “neutral” visualizations, this perspective is the one of the dominant, default group." ^[5]

    To bring things back to our question, I strongly believe that we don't know if men commit more crime than women. I think it's plausible that it could be true, but due to inherent bias in how the data behind these statistics are gathered (i.e. documented inequalities in policing and sentencing), we simply don't know. Statistics always carries this problem of bias being hidden in the data, but it's especially tricky when dealing with complex socioeconomic matters such as crime. To me, this is a standout example of an area where we need to be especially cautious that we don't mistake the stats for truth.


    [1]: Open Access Academic Paper:
    "Smartphone Data Reveal Neighborhood-Level Racial Disparities in Police Presence", (2023), Chen et al.
    https://doi.org/10.1162/rest_a_01370

    [2]: More accessible summary of [1]
    https://anderson-review.ucla.edu/smartphone-records-reveal-racial-disparities-in-neighborhood-policing/

    [3]: Paywalled Academic Paper:
    "Gender Disparities in Sentencing", (2020), Arnaud Philippe
    https://doi.org/10.1111/ecca.12333
    Unpaywalled SciDB mirror via Anna's Archive

    [4]: More accessible summary of [3], by Michelle Kilfoyle and Arnaud Philippe
    https://ceps.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/2021/11/17/gender-stereotypes-see-female-criminals-fare-better-in-court/

    [5]: Old Academic Paper:
    “Situated Knowledges: The Science Question in Feminism and the Privilege of Partial Perspective,” Feminist Studies 14, no. 3 (1988): 575–599
    Quote and reference retrieved via [6]

    [6]: Open Access Book "Data Feminism", (2020), Catherine D'Ignazio and Lauren Klein
    Fairly academic, but also quite accessible to anyone interested in how socioeconomic inequality shapes how we use data, and how data feeds inequality. I highly recommend this book, it is excellent
    Quoted section found here

    And on the off chance one of you delightful nerds would like to read more, here is a link to the main book page, for your convenience:
    https://data-feminism.mitpress.mit.edu/


    ^(It's funny that now I'm no longer in academia, I seem to have fun writing cited essays. Though to be fair, I studied biochemistry, so this is outside of my main wheelhouse — which is probably why I'm so diligent with citing my claims)

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Basically all our data suggests that men commit more crime than women across the boars like the original poster said. I don't necessarily disagree with your comments about bias in data, but your final conclusion I don't think is accurate:

    I strongly believe that we don't know if men commit more crime than women. I think it's plausible that it could be true...

    Sure I don't think we know this with 100% certainty but it is much more than plausible, it is with a high degree of confidence true. If all of the data points to one conclusion I don't think it is very fair to throw your arms up and say there could be bias everywhere, show that there is bias across the board and then let's try to account for the bias. I don't even think you have shown there to be bias.

    You also state

    women are effectively undercounted if we're talking about who commits more crime

    This conclusion I don't see proven in your analysis, racial bias does not equal gender bias and it's quite a jump to use that as evidence. Also we have more data than just who is caught or who is sentenced, there are surveys asking if you have ever shoplifted (sure these need to be take with a grain of salt), there's data about the suspected gender of a perpetrator of crime when it is initially reported. Etc. Etc.

    It is a very important thing to keep in mind statistical data is not infallible and in some cases only slightly useful (self reported surveys). But if you take all that into account and look across the board we can be rather confident men commit more crime than women. Not 100% but probably 90%+

    You introduce the possibility of bias but don't really prove there actually is that bias in any data sets. This argument feels dangerous in the opposite direction of what Donna Haraway is warning about, you have taken weaknesses in the entire category of statistical data to throw their conclusions out entirely without having specific reasons to.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    By mentioning racial bias, I was making the wider point of how the statistics rely on data that is inherently biased due to how it was collected; Inequality in policing and the judicial system leads to different outcomes.

    A concrete example from the UK is that in the year ending March 2024, under the "stop and search" procedures, "there were 59,549 searches of women, [...] and 447,952 searches of men [...]" (Elided parts of the quote are because the article compares stats to the year prior, which isn't relevant to our discussion)

    That's a ratio of men and women being searched of around 15:2 . I'm going to treat that as if it were 7:1, because I want to set up a hypothetical. Now obviously this doesn't include any of the downstream stuff like rates of actually getting arrested, or later found guilty, because that would be far too complex to consider here. Let's treat stop and search rates as a proxy for crime rates, and consider two different scenarios that could explain these data.

    In scenario 1, we would assume that for each gender, the number of people stopped and searched is proportional to the number of people who commit crimes, I.e. that:

    the gendered ratio of stop and search (7:1) ≈ the gendered ratio of crimes committed (7:1)

    Now for scenarios 2, let's assume that this isn't the case, and that actual ratio of crimes committed is 𝒳 :1, where 𝒳 is unknown; although my belief is that 𝒳 lies somewhere between 1 and 7 (i.e. that women commit more crimes than is recorded in the stats, but likely not significantly more than men do), 𝒳 could even be larger than 7.

    There's a lot of possible reasons why we might find that 𝒳 ≠ 7. Police may actually use stop and search as a tactic to harass women (depressingly common based on what we've seen of police abusing their power against women), leading to women being over counted in the stats compared to their actual crime rates; or maybe police are less likely to stop and search women because they've found that to find contraband like drugs, a more invasive search would be necessary (I, and many women I have known have occasionally hid small, secret items in their bras, and I imagine many criminals would have had the same idea); or maybe police officers are worried about being accused of abusing their power to harass women, so their personal sense of professional risk leads them to be less likely to stop women. I'm not trying to make the case for any of these in particular, merely assert that there are many plausible reasons why the ratio of stop and searches might be different to the ratio of crimes committed.

    In both scenario 1 and 2, our data shows us the same thing: that men commit more crimes than women at a roughly 7:1 ratio. However, in scenario 2, this conclusion is an incorrect one, due to bias in how the data was collected. The crux of my point is that we don't know whether reality is closer to scenario 1 or 2, and we don't have a way of knowing because we have no way of counting true rates of crime; anything that tries to study crime is inevitably going to have a heckton of false negatives — that is, criminals who get away with it. And every innocent person who has been imprisoned is a false positive. False positives and false negatives are a problem in any statistical study, but I am arguing that this is especially significant in this case due to well documented inequalities in policing, affecting multiple axes of oppression. That's why I brought up racial bias — to highlight the many flaws of policing as a method of data collection.

    Often when we run into the problems of false positives and false negatives in statistics, we are able to estimate how accurate our proxy measurements are by comparing them to a reference gold standard. During COVID, for instance, when Lateral Flow Tests (LFTs) were being tested, we were able to test them against PCR tests, which were known to be extremely accurate. We have no such reference standard when it comes to crime stats — all we have is the proxy. What I am advocating for is that we keep this in mind, and take any crime statistics with a hefty dose of salt

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Your reply here I pretty much agree with completely but you have moved the goal posts quite a bit from your initial comment.

    What I'm gathering from your comment here is that crime statistics need to be carefully considered because of a large risk of bias in police responses to things let alone the justice system itself. Totlally agree with that.

    But your original point that we just don't know if women actually commit less crime than men is not supported here as I don't believe it was in your original comment. Virtually all the data I have seen (and I admit I'm nowhere near a subject expert on this) suggests men commit more crime then women. This goes beyond police searches, convictions, etc. Its everything. It is extremely unlikely that there is enough types of bias across the entire dataset of crime stats across the world to make it so women commit roughly the same amount of crime as men (or even more crazy MORE crime).

    Now one of the big issues with this is that "crime" is a squishy definition, if we count speeding of 1mph over the limit than just the number of miles driven per gender would be enough to sway the stats. Cause everyone speeds all the time pretty much which is a "crime"

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    I'm using this:

    "that crime statistics need to be carefully considered because of a large risk of bias in police responses to things let alone the justice system itself."

    to argue that the data behind these statistics are so riddled with bias that I am extremely dubious about them, to the extent that I think it'd be epistemologically safer to largely disregard the stats.

    I mean, I'm a scientist, and so my whole thing is about grappling with the fact that statistics are just a proxy for the thing we actually care about. But the thing that makes statistics useful in science is being able to estimate how uncertain we are in our data — if we don't have sufficient understanding of the data and how much it's affected by bias, then it's pointless to rely on it in our analyses. Less than pointless, actually, because it'll lead us to a false sense of confidence where we think we somewhat understand some phenomena, but in reality we're digging in the completely wrong areas.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    the data behind these statistics are so riddled with bias that I am extremely dubious about them, to the extent that I think it'd be epistemologically safer to largely disregard the stats

    This right here is what I'm arguing against. I'd go so far as to say applying this at a macro level is dangerous and destructive (and let me be clear I am not accusing you of doing anything dangerous or destructive, this has been a lovely conversation and I hope I carry no offense. A politician saying this would scare me, but talking about this in a small setting is interesting and productive).

    What I have seen from your argument is the possibility for bias at a few different levels of hypothetical data. Now again I'll caveat that this is not my area of expertise and I'm probably not doing a great job representing the body of literature, but let's examine a few studies to hopefully demonstrate what I mean. In this study accessing women's arrest rate for violent crime there are some interesting charts that help illustrate my point (which is largely unrelated to the focus of the paper). They came up with this set of graphs:

    I'll grant that these partially illustrate your point (the part I said I agreed with), the arrest rate for a crime is not necessarily tied to the act of doing the crime itself, and it does so by comparing victim reports of crime with arrest records as a victim report has nothing to do with if an arrest is made or not. Now you could also say that maybe it is less likely that a victim of a woman committing assault is less likely to report they were victimized along with them less likely being arrested. Sure I could even get behind that, but does that account for the 10-20 fold difference in both of them? That would be wild.

    For an ever clearer example of this let's look at another citation (shared author as before) looking at gender differences in drunk driving. In this analysis it was found that 30% of self-reported drunk drivers are women, 25% of DUI arrests are women, and 18% of legally intoxicated drivers in fatal crashes are women. Here we would need to come up with an explanation that up to triples the "real" counts of DUI driving for all three of these stats. We'd have to say well women are 2x less likely to self report than men (why?), they are 2x less likely to be pulled over for DUI (maybe because cops don't target them as much?) , and that they are 3x less likely to cause accidents that result in death (I guess they are just better drunk drivers by a massive margin).

    Even if there are potential for bias in the data you can then account for it with other studies, for the last point the cleanest way would be to ask "are women better at driving under the influence than men?" and a study that tried to tackle exactly that found that "women displayed greater impairment than men on all behavioral tests and also reported higher levels of subjective intoxication compared with men."

    Sure we could poke and prod at hypothetical biases in this data but just because you can generate a plausible explanation for bias doesn't mean you should "largely disregard the stats". The reason I claim this is dangerous at the macro level is because this is how you get climate change deniers, vaccine skeptics, smoking and lung cancer deniers, and on and on. There are times where it is appropriate to raise eyebrows at statistical findings, but with something as clear cut as violent crime with men vs women it is not it.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    Even in more progressive areas boys are socialized differently. I’ve been in a field where I see early childhood until middle school for years now. And girls, from the beginning, and raised more strictly. They have more care in their clothes, their meals, and the skills they are taught. They rarely fight, and if they do, it’s not on impulse. My theory on why people often say “boys are easier” is because they absolutely neglect them. So the onus is on 3rd parties to often teach them basic skills and rule following, to control their impulses, etc. Even in K-5, boys are the ones who are telling their teachers to fuck off, leaving the buildings without permission, fighting, etc. Parents blame the teacher/staff, if they are present at all, and antisocial behavior gets rewarded again and again.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    I think it's social conditioning and lack of mental health resources. Girls are strongly socially conditioned to "play nice" and get along at all costs, which tends to lead to more rules following. Boys are often socialized to suppress their emotions while at the same time are allowed to act out and encouraged to be tough and macho. The bad boy act is romanticized and violence is at best tolerated and at worst idolized.

    So you have men who never learned how to deal with their feelings who also are used to having a physical, often violent outlet because that's the only acceptable thing they know.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Studies of boys say that boys (in games) will follow the rules at the detriment of individual players and girls (in games) tend to allow the rules to be applied individually. This also explains why boys and girls tend to gravitate to different types of games. The way boys play can lead to acute ostracization if the rule is discriminatory towards you or even if you just happen to get unlucky where girls will often make exceptions to those rules to avoid a peer being ostracized. The boy template is how society currently works, it will inherently create poverty, inequality and the only “winner” is the rules. It’s more than social conditioning, it’s the mindset that society chooses to build its self on that perpetuates the problem.

    I sourced this from the book “In a Different Voice” which I don’t have access to right now but the author did cite her sources and body of work if anyone else is curious about how basically all psychological studies on human development are almost exclusively done with boys to the exclusion of everyone else, especially foundational works.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    The way boys play can lead to acute ostracization if the rule is discriminatory towards you or even if you just happen to get unlucky where girls will often make exceptions to those rules to avoid a peer being ostracized

    Growing up this was not my experience at all with girls. Maybe if you’re neurotypical and/or cis then girls are like that, but I got ostracized by most of my female peers from early elementary school (and the majority of my male peers wouldn’t give me the time of day to begin with because I was a ‘girl’). The ways girls can be cruel to each other for arbitrary reasons is really jaw dropping if you haven’t experienced it firsthand. Maybe it’s different now than it was ~30 years ago, but I’d be surprised if it was. If anything I have to imagine cyber bullying makes it worse.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    My experience as a neurodivergent woman was that as a girl growing up I was very much ostracized from other girls and was mocked and bullied cause I was a little weirdo, but I could usually find a couple boys who were a year or three older than me who would treat me kindly and include me in their games. They didn't treat me quite like an equal but more like a sister they needed to take care of and it was always a safe place for me.

    As an adult I've found dynamics are different and I still struggle making friends and relating to people because I never got to have friends as a kid, but I can definitely walk into a group of women and not be bullied and generally can make myself feel included with some social effort.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I would tend to agree to this. My significant other and I have talked about our teenage years (we didn't know each other then) and the differences in conflict resolution are extreme. Where I would go out of my way to fix a problem in my friend group so we could all move on and he happy, him and his bros would beat the shit out of each other then act like nothing happened.

    So even in teenage years, the group of girls is being to the root problem, discussing feelings, taking accountability for their fuck ups, and trying not to do the thing again. We were teenagers, we still pissed each other off constantly but at least there was some resolve and feelings are acknowledged and validated.

    The group of boys didn't discuss such things. It was apparently more "hey Buddy fuck you!" And a fist fight starts. According to him half the time they didn't know why the other person was mad. They'd just beat on each other and act like nothing happened after. Emotions never got validated, nothing was ever talled about, it was just shoved down.

    We both went through depression issues in our teenage years. I talked to friends about it and eventually came out there other side. He talked to no one about it and struggled well into college and even had an attempt before he went to therapy. Therapy which he never told anyone he was going to. Thankfully now these days as an adult he has friends he can talk to about these things. He said it's so incredibly different than how he was raised.

    I know this is all anecdotal but, I've seen a fair amount of this so I support your theory.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    We really have failed our men and our boys. I consider myself a feminist and I can argue about the shitty things that men do to women with the rest of them, but what almost always gets left out of the argument is that men were raised to be this way since they were boys. Society, do better. Stop raising girls to be accountable while giving boys a pass. Let your boys (and girls!) be rough and tough but teach them tenderness, compassion, and that emotions are healthy.

    Teach your boys to become men like Aragorn.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Criminals tend to be on the extreme end of the bell curve for violence, and men's bell curve for violence is slightly shifted up compared to women. In the end, that means the extreme outliers for all the most disagreeable and violent individuals are men (like 99%) and the same is true on the opposite end but for women.

    Men also have a slightly broader bell curve for intelligence, so the same applies for the extreme end of intelligence. All of the dumbest people alive are primarily men. The Venn diagram of low intelligence and agreeableness, along with impulsiveness means most criminals are men.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I think we'll need sources for this, it seems pretty subjective

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    There are strong sex based differences in propensity for youth violence in WEIRD countries. There's less of a strong correlation outside of those countries but it still broadly applies when analyzed.

    It's more complex than just being "hardwired" or "testosterone" but the differences are statistically significant and repeatable.

    There is a strong correlation between intelligence and being a criminal. It's not predictive, but if you have low intelligence you're part of a vulnerable group that is far more likely to be imprisoned. This could also be that smart criminals don't get caught, but large case reviews with low intelligence offenders often find a lack of foresight of what happens after commiting a crime, and a lack of understanding about how serious it can be. Both of which strongly correlate with criminality. It's a fancy way of saying they don't think ahead and don't understand the magnitude of what they're doing.

    Within the literature the greater male variability hypothesis is not controversial, but well established fact.

    The rest of my opinion is derived from a statistics 101 level of understanding of bell curve comparisons between two groups and what happens to the tails and outliers (which is also backed up piecemeal by my sources in different areas indirectly.)

    I'm willing to add more sources as needed but I think it's time you did some searching to refute my position if you still think it's suspect.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    For violent crimes it's probably just that men are on average stronger and more aggressive (at least they were a few decades ago).
    For white collar crimes, higher positions with more criminal opportunity still are usually held by men. More opportunity means more abuse of opportunity.
    On the low economic end, poor men are less likely to be able to benefit from help for internal and external reasons than poor women. So survival crimes are more likely to be done by men, too.
    Men on average seem to also feel more the need for speed and are more risk affine. So they likely get more speeding tickets.

    Different reasons for different types of crimes. There probably are also crimes that are more often committed by women or where the gender gap is insignificant. But nobody talks about crimes committed by women. So no idea whether women are even capable of committing crimes at all.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago* (8 children)

    From least to most relevant:

    • There are more crimes that can only be done by men than by women.
    • There are crimes that are taken more seriously by law enforcement when done by men.
    • Male crime bosses are still bosses and unlikely to hire and promote women.
    • Housework may be real but unpaid work, but does not lend itself to workplace crime.
    • Males are more likely to be convicted, skewing statistics.
    • We are teaching kids that being angry or horny are typically male emotions.
    • Seeking help from family or institutions is discouraged for men, while being self reliant is idolized.
    • We stopped prosecuting the crime of witchcraft /s
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  • [–] [S] 6 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    What are some examples of your first point?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    I think it's probably fair to say that there was a lot of evolutionary pressure that selected for aggression in males and against it for females. Trying to ignore any biological differences is neglectful.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    It's because of several factors. In no particular order, crime statistics are skewed, they only account for crimes that have been discovered and considered solved, if a certain demographics were better at hiding or getting away with crimes it would be underrepresented. Even if we could trust the statistics, some crimes are less severe than others, and it's hard to judge all crimes in the same bag, even all murders are not equal so statistics can get skewed by a demographic committing more of the crimes you're analyzing even if they commit less if you were to look at specifics. Even if we could trust that, and have crimes organized neatly into completely independent and equally severe categories there's the social factors. Most societies around the world tend to educate men more violently than women. Finally, even if you were to have a society with humans educated equally, and have a 100% crime rate solved with 100% accuracy and analyze crimes in a completely unbiased way, there's still the biological differences, and men have more testosterone than women, and testosterone is responsible for aggressive behavior, so even in such a society there would still be some tendency for men to commit more crimes, although I imagine it would be a lot less skewed than today.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Societal expectations for one thing. We're also conditioned into suppressing our emotions. Many men don't have healthy outlets.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Women are better are covering it up. I think men are more prone to acts of passion or random bouts of rage, which is difficult to plan for and cover up. It's often public, loud and messy. Women internalize from an early age that this is not acceptable behaviour if you're not male, so we reign it in more. But that doesn't mean the crimes aren't committed, we're just always cognizant of the social fallout if we're discovered.

    Anyone who has worked in a retirement home can tell you there are some very sweet ladies who will, on or near their deathbed, tell you how they killed their abusive husband decades ago. Or they share the story like words of wisdom to the younger generation.

    I think a lot of women have been put in a corner by society, so they don't feel a pressing need to play by the rules all the time.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    That's not really a practical answer for a lot of crimes, unless you also presuppose that a large portion of women covering it up are also successfully pinning them on men or preventing them from being discovered at all.

    For example in the US, even if you add all unknown murders to women, they're still totaling less than half attributed to men.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago* (8 children)

    It's not possible to measure committed crimes. If anyone parrots some crime statistics without limiting themselves to violent crimes it's 100% bullshit. Crime statistics just measure convictions. Violent crime rates often times include unsolved murders and assaults.

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Is your stance that women do commit more crime then?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    No. I did not in any way say that. If you swapped "men" and "women" in the title I would have said the exact same thing.

    If you have a conclusion that men hold more criminal convictions then that could be true because it's very quantifiable.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Oh so you just want to "erm actually" and not make any meaningful contribution to the conversation

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (4 children)

    My contribution is meaningful. Men "commit" more crimes because they're convicted of more crimes. There are MANY studies across centuries that look into that.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Why do you think they are convicted more?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    More like women are convicted less. I'm not really qualified to answer. :|

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    How about the surviving non-patriarchal/-capitalist tribes? Is it an objective fact there as well

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    There's certainly a social competent, crimes, violence is seen as a manly trait.

    Testosterone is also a hell of a drug, it makes you do stupid shit.

    There might be underreporting of the women circumstantially as well. I mention this because the only people that have committed violence against me is my mother and my ex. I feel like if they were men the possibility of criminal charges might have happened instead of being ignored, but that's a unknown.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    Men are more likely to face real poverty and get no help from anybody. Suicide, crime rates are just derivatives of it

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    Men are generally more aggressive

    Women have generally chosen said more aggressive men to reproduce with

    I guess the more aggressive men are more likely to rape and get women pregnant which increases the chance of their aggressive nature to survive. This is why abortion rights are crucial among other reasons - getting rid of the plague of moronic sexual behaviors that genetically promote violence

    And now we're here

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    ‘If you were conceived through rape you’re probably going to be a future rapist’ is perhaps not the messaging to be putting out into the world

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    I mean, it sounds fucked up, but is it? I guess I assumed that such thing has a genetic component but perhaps I'm wrong, idk

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    >it sounds fucked up, but is it?

    Yeah? Telling a child that hasn’t committed a sex crime that they’re destined to do it because one of their parents was a rapist is messed up. Human behavior is complex, you can’t just say ‘oh you have the rape gene, you’re gonna rape somebody.’

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Great. I guess this isn't the place to discuss sensitive topics, because you took this from

    "the way attraction and violence play together can be unhealthy, and we must take measures to avoid promoting bad behavior"

    to

    "You think telling kids they will rape people is a good idea!!!?? What a moron! You're fucked in the head buddy!!"

    Guess reddit really did spill over into Lemmy.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago

    You’re the one that started with the premise that rapist parents make rapist kids who go on to rape and make more rapists. If you think that’s actually what happens, why would you not try to prevent it by telling the kid? (For clarity this is fucked, don’t do this)

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    it could just be a coincidence, i'm not sure if men are naturally more violent or evil than women.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago
    [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Brain worms.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    Women can get away with crime easier than men because they are seen as more innocent. Another thing that comes to mind is how mens' IQ is said to have more kurtosis, so you get more dumb men at the beginning of the bell curve committing bad crimes.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Is there a direct correlation with low IQ and likelihood of criminal activity?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Uhhh... Because it's easy?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    Because ~85% of males could physically overpower ~85% of females.

    Young men too polite and well behaved to physically engage with women may underestimate the difference , and they may be taken by common movie tropes where a little girl is a secret martial arts master and beats the shit out of fifteen guys. But in real life the physical difference is enormously biased towards men and boys.

    Men and boys know this and so they are more likely to try crimes. Women and girls know this and so they are less likely to try. This knowledge comes into play both when considering the crime, and when considering the law enforcement response to those crimes. (“I could overpower/slip away from / outrun that cop!”)

    This explains the disparity in violent crime, but also leads to an overall mindset that explains nonviolent crime.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Women are not as reckless, less confrontational and more socially conscious (if not due to morals, at least because of the fear of being ostracized). Also, they're generally incapable of engaging in violent crime competently, for obvious biological reasons, so I guess they also have less motivation to try if it ever crosses their minds.

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  • I believe there's societal causes to the disparity. Part I feel is that when men are in danger and need the safety net, they're less likely to receive aid. There's not as vast of a support network for men as there are women. Add in a perception of men being considered expendable throughout history with women and children given priority. Men are more likely to be forgotten by a system that does not value them and their only means of survival may be crime. That's crime based on poverty and such means.

    Crime that is white collar I think comes down to thrill seeking and reward. The propensity for men to be in extreme sports, to be stuntmen, and I believe there were instances there were more male skydivers. It's the thrill of it and getting away with it. Which leads into also psyche and are men more proportionate to have anti-social behaviors.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Violent crime?

    Younger people do too. Brain chemistry, social conditioning, men are more likely to commit violent crime, and the effect is magnified because they are physically stronger overall.

    Crime in general? Like shoplifting, embezzlement, fraud? Do men commit more? I don't know if that is true.

    AnarchistArtificer has a point, but I think we do have good evidence that men commit more of the crimes of violence. Murder and rape are more commonly committed by men. It could be that they are just more successful at it, for lack of a better word - if I got in a fight with a man my size, I am the one more likely to be harmed, right? But I don't think so. It does seem evident, from the evidence we have, that men do commit more violent crime.

    This doesn't mean that men are in general violent. Just that the small subset of violent people is mostly guys.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3969807/

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    They’re more capable of doing so.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    I can't really disagree on a physical level but this universal constant carries to ALL crime not just violent/physical.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    I'd imagine a cause they're more economically able to and usually more physically capable. Plus violent acts are usually baked into most cultures version of masculinity.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    The cultural reason was what I was thinking too.

    At first, physical capability popped into my mind as well, however can a woman not steal a loaf of bread? Or grab a knife and stab someone, or grab a gun and pull the trigger?

    Economically able to could also lead into the gender imbalance in executive positions.

    However I would like to hear the person I replied to's reasoning instead of us guessing or putting answers in their mouth so to speak, as 'more capable of doing so' doesn't really lend much to the conversation.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Women can and women do. Last year a women few miles away decided she had enough of her husband abusing her and decided to stab him in the driveway. Not only did the husband manage to pull out the knife but stab the wife to death. I've seen neighbor's CCTV footage. Luckily/unluckily however you see it she did enough damage that he died before paramedics arrived, but he did so much damage from the same knife, that she died before him. Per cops, Wife did leave a journal entry with intention to murder the guy and expected to be going to jail for murder. But ended up dying before that.

    There is clearly difference of strength for any kind of physical contact weapons. Guns for sure are equalizers in that regards.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Yes of course, but the crime was still committed and she had full capability of committing the crime regardless of how it ended up for her. The question wasn't "why are males more successful at committing a crime", although this is where my mind went as well.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    which kind of crime, violent crimes yes. even suicides men use more physical methods, rather than things like poisons. also if its baked into many cultures, than yes. another complex issue is: at least in the US, men are expected to move out of the house right after HS, and not expected to come back, even if they have very little job prospects, or directions, or finances which may lead to do crimes,sell drugs,,,etc. while women are expected to stay home way past, like in thier 20s or 30s in some cases and expected to marry into a family and they usually have support system to go to college, and colleges themselves have support system for women in general, expenses paid until you finish or get married so the risk of crimes are low, when you have needs met. this isnt all cases. both men and women can stay home past HS what they should be doing independently. its complex issue, but physical violence(guns, beatings, car running over, knives, weapons) are usually men.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 months ago*

    All crime, yes. Being in the US I can't say I agree with most of what you're saying. I think moving out at 18/ after HS is expected regardless of gender. Or at least I don't think the negative stigma of staying home into your 20s is any different among the genders. To be fair, I'm 31 and moved out when I was 18. I found roommates off craigslist and did wild shit to pull it off. Even that doesn't seem commonly possible in the current housing/rental market in most places. Do women have more resources at college? Not that I remember. I do remember knowing some that were just going to get their "Mrs. Degree". I think thats more the minority though. I just see a lot of flawed thinking opposite from my experience.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    They are inherently more violent.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago*

    I think it could be useful to change the optics a little bit. Instead of seeing it as a purely gender-based issue, it would be interesting to also see it through the intersection of gender and criminality, as well as the associated biases and more.

    Some things that come to mind in this respect:

    • Men are more likely to become suspects in the first place

    This is beautifully illustrated in this answer. In essence, we don't have statistics on crimes committed; we have statistics on cases closed. Using this statistic (which states men are most common offenders), police is more likely to see men as potential offenders, and as a result, sentence men more. This is reflected in the crime statistics and...you get the idea.

    • Men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes, physical abuse, and bullying with physical elements, prompting them to develop more aggressive defense mechanisms

    Such victims can often overreact on perceived dangers, causing trouble and sending them through the loop of stirring and thereby expecting more aggression. As a response to physical dangers, men often develop high physical strength (making their response more dangerous) and higher levels of testosterone (contributing to aggression). This is also projected onto a much larger group of men - many boys are preemptively taught to "stand up to bullies" (not by exposing and reporting them, but through the same aggressive defense), sending even those otherwise unaffected through the same loop.

    Outside of this particular scope:

    • Men have much less freedom of healthy emotional expression

    Pretty much the only socially allowed negative emotion a man can have is aggression. Men expressing sadness, grief, fear are often seen as "weak", "disgusting", their feelings are invalidated, they are said they're not "real men". Eventually, all these emotions turn to anger, which is considered acceptable. Left without proper venting, the person can become danger to others.

    • Men have more impulsive sexual behavior

    Male sexual drive is more pronounced compared to female one. Lack of sexual satisfaction can be particularly dangerous, clouding healthy judgment in certain individuals. Unlike women, who can channel this into sexual work and other outlets, men are relatively rarely presented such opportunity. This leads to elevated rates of sexual offenses.

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