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[–] 47 points 3 months ago (6 children)

It's not a fucking market, it's a gambling site and the worst type of it. Its gambling on if a human being will die, if somebody will suffer, if wars will be won or lost

This website is the absolute anus of the internet, only shit comes out of it, aside from the eventual dick head coming in

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  • [+] -13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Idk, I have very little interaction with this site, but perusing just now, it seems quite innocuous. Topics seem to be some sports things (like what team will so and so be on), world events (several references to the Iran- US war, all worded in terms of when peace will be declared), and politics (looks like they think the Dems will take the house handily).

    I imagine someone could get addicted to it the same way they get addicted to any gambling. But to me it seems less problematic than sports betting apps or video slots in the gas station. And as someone who has no intention of using it to gamble, I can become a bit more informed about what will probably happen in the world soon.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Betting on politics and world events is not innocuous, as if there wasn't enough corruption already. My quick perusal showed, aside from that garbage, an entire category for air quality (gee, what could possibly go wrong there??) and a category that's just the number of times Rich Asshole is going to tweet during set periods, like he's not cashing in on that regularly. The rich get richer, and, to revive an ancient meme, every day we stray further from god's light.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago

    I don’t like the unregulated part of it regardless, but I would agree with you by principle. But only if they remove the sports betting component. I don’t know if we have data on gambling addiction to this kind on non-sports betting, but research would be interesting!

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  • [–] -5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    This is the worst argument you could have thought of. French definition of human rights imply not judging based on morality and beliefs but on strict well defined rules. Polymarket is problematic because it's used for fraud, insider trading, corruption and money laundering. Not because we don't agree with its content

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Its a gambling site.

    Its a gambling site that allow you to gamble on human lives

    Its a site that has already given ma y people perverse incentives to tip the scale into their favor by intimidating and threatening journalists at the very least.

    And you are on about French human rights? Wut?

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    I think it's a good step while the rest of the world seems to just let it and other "prediction sites" operate. Gambling itself should be at least heavily regulated because of a variety of reasons, but this is even worse because gambling is the best possible use. The worst cases being things like betting a wildfire will start on a specific day and then... starting a wildfire. That's closer to a website hiring hitmen, something more dark web than new tech.

    Now is it a slippery slope? Maybe, especially since it's not a direct way to stop the problem. Dark web services are there because they are illegal, they aren't just blocked by an ISP. Laws need to clarify how much of this is gambling (which is legal in France and subject to rules) and how much of this is dangerous activity. Legally clarifying these rules is essential to a long term solution, but again I think it's ok to take a quick first step while that process plays out.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    I was going to say it shouldn't matter whether they block the website because Polymarket is largely decentralized and runs on smart contracts, and so should be accessible through a third party frontend even if the main site is blocked, but it seems that they did it wrong and set things up so that all user wallets must be explicitly approved by the company to use it and so it has no properties of permissionlessness, if I am reading this right:

    /// @notice Adds a new operator
    /// Can only be called by a current admin
    /// @param _operator - The new operator
    function addOperator(address _operator) external onlyAdmin {
        require(!operators[_operator], AlreadyOperator());
        operators[_operator] = true;
        emit NewOperator(_operator, msg.sender);
    }
    
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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    With 'blocking' they likely mean at DNS level, unless France invested in a lot of DPI censorship infrastructure.

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  • [+] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago*

    You do realize these prediction markets only exist to enable insiders to commit fraud and steal from morons, right? They are a scam. There is no difference between supporting them and Nigerian scammers, or the Indian call centers who target the elderly.

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  • [+] -7 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    This is the wrong way to do things. The government should not be dictating what its citizens are allowed to access on the Internet. It seems like so many countries go after ISPs and DNS providers to solve their problems for them, and I think it's mostly just laziness.

    What France should be doing is making it illegal for Polymarket to operate in their country, and fining them for violations.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    And what happens when they refuse to pay the fine, or consider that those fines are an acceptable cost for doing business in France? If the goal is protecting the french public, blocking the site as soon as it is made illegal is the only option

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Control is never relinquished voluntarily, it only expands. If the government has the power to block access to one site they will do it with more, for increasingly less justifiable reasons, until they eventually don't bother justifying it at all.

    Government censorship is not permissible in a free society, period.

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  • [+] 5 points 3 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

    Blocking sites that are doing something not legal to do in the country is how you do things. This isn't blocking information or anything worthwhile, just a shitty betting site that isn't allowed to do business in the way they are doing it in France.

    The move aims to enforce an existing ban on financial transactions to the site.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    This isn't blocking information or anything worthwhile

    The government should neither know nor care what its citizens access on the internet, any more than they should have control over what books its citizens read.

    Censorship is censorship regardless of what is being censored.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I think it's the nature of the site, in that anyone really determined can create a result they've bet upon.

    Like someone dying or an industrial "accident" happening. It's about the potential for abuse, insider trading or any host of seemingly random events that may not be so random.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    I have no objection to sites like Polymarket being made illegal. That is not the argument.

    I don't approve of people using Polymarket, but I would fight for their right to access the website without censorship.

    The government can declare a business like Polymarket to be illegal, that's fine. Take action against Polymarket directly. The government dictating which sites a citizen can or cannot access is not fine. It is exactly the same as what China does with the Great Firewall.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    That's fair. I fear it's just a matter of time before something realy awful hits and there were bets placed on it and yeah, it is discovered after the fact that the bettors were involved and that will be the end of all of it. Which.. doesn't bother me one bit if we're being honest about it. I'm not one to give a shit about gambling. IMHO, it's a massive waste of time and money.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago

    No, that's not, or at least shouldn't be and used to not be, "how you do things". Blocking websites because they aren't complying with national laws used to be the domain of authoritarian countries like the PRC or Thailand or Russia. Now it's "how you do things" in so called liberal democracies? Has that really become so normalized?

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Blocking is harsh, but honestly there seem to be limited different actions that can be taken, but will not really have a great impact. These prediction markets sell themselves as putting your money where your mouth is, which sounds great on paper but without regulation opens up for a select few to do «inside trading».

    Most users are still primarily using it for sports betting which is very heavily regulated. For good reason. Regulating these in the same way would be the right action but, I guess we could see if this actually will have an impact. I’m sceptical.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I feel like too many people have the general impressing that this is some normal gambling. For example, on polymarket, if a bet defaults, such as a game being cancelled, the pool is split 50/50. Most users do not know of this, and it can be gamed until you get banned, what other platform (or hell if Im betting with friends) does that?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I would assume other betting exchanges such as betfair does that. With betfair you purchase an order and someone must issue a sell for you to get that price. Think stock market for sports betting. But betfair is considered a gambling site and is regulated as such. So I don’t see why Polymarket or Kalshi should be any different. I’d be happy to be convinced otherwise :)

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  • 39 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 65 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    Anyone have the odds on how long it will take for this to be circumvented?

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  • [–] 41 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Depends, but immediately for either case.

    A) Mostly likely. The ISP blocks DNS resolution for that domain, directing users to a placeholder site instead. User just uses a DNS resolver other than their ISPs such as Google's or Cloudflare's - easy, quick, free.

    B) The ISP also has to block routing to IPs associated with the site. Unlikely, but easily circumvented by using a VPN so that your direct routing goes via elsewhere. Easy, quick, free or paid.

    These blocks are common for sites a government deems illegal or undesirable. Nothing new here at a technical level.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Accessing the site is one thing but what about transferring money to/from?

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Same way. Transfer money in once you're on the website and is not being blocked at bank level. They also take crypto so it's not like the bank can block it either even if France tried to block that.

    BTW, I think the site and premis behind Polymarket is shit and nobody should use it, but blocking websites effectively has proven difficult at a technical level. (See PirateBay, still going strong despite everything entire governments and massive lobbying power can throw at it, and 4chan's refusal to be blocked by the UK's OSA) Most governments settle for the political win and blocking people with only a casual interest, which is fair enough. Most serious attempts at blocking specific sites tends just to make lawyers richer.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    I agree when it comes to pirate websites and other shady stuff but I think those guys are a "legitimate" business, even if disgusting, and if France bans them from operating on the territory and they knowingly enable french people to use the site, could still be trouble. I have no idea how they function but I'd be surprised if they don't even make you ID yourself on there similar to a trading app?..

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago

    While well-meaning this is a terrible idea and not how the Internet should work. Block their payments, make it illegal to operate, but don't start letting any government decide who's allowed on the Internet.

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  • [–] 71 points 3 months ago (20 children)

    I hate how they're supporting the fiction that this isn't gambling by calling it a "prediction site". It's gambling, always has been.

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  • [–] 34 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    This isn't much different than google calling installing software "side loading". All just lawyer speech to be able to bend and break the rules

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    JAILBREAKING SCUM

    Literally just having access to your device you paid for....

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    I think the distinction is important. Gambling is random outcome. Prédiction means you could influence the outcome. Think of a terrorist betting on the timing of the next attack 

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago*

    Actually, yeah.

    It's also gambling. But the potential for corruption is just on a whole other level; "gambling" is a euphemism for prediction markets.

    I think it's silly you're getting downvoted over semantics; gambling has influenced outcomes, yes, technically, but it's generally a self-contained game.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    If you're influencing the outcome via some private mechanism that's a crime and is in fact illegal (a little thing known as insider trading or cheating depending on how you go about it). So per your definition either you can't influence the outcome in which case it's gambling, or you can in which case it's illegal and you're committing a crime.

    All that said I think the definition of gambling being truly random isn't quite right. Gambling has always been about statistical outcomes because if it was truly random nobody would ever make any money off of it so nobody would waste their time. Remember the house always wins because they control the odds. These sites are just bookies in techbro clothing using marketing and legal loopholes to run illegal gambling sites.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Insider trading applies to securities. Polymarket bets are not securities.

    Manipulation violates Polymarket's ToS, but that's not criminal.

    Now, it might meet the legal criteria for fraud, depending on what one does. But that's a "maybe." I'd say that is far easier to get away with than insider trading. EDIT: Especially when hopping jurisdictions (which is not so easy with securities).

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    This loophole (if we can even call it that because it‘s just stupid marketing) makes it even worse than regular gambling. It‘s unregulated and very easy to exploit even by other participants. Everything about this is illegal in pretty much any country no matter how you word it. It‘s actually insane how slow countries are to do something about those criminals.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    By that logic, all gambling is just prediction

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (4 children)

    how did you come to this conclusion? betting on scenarios that are purely random are just gambling.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Scenarios in gambling are rarely "purely random". I.e. the likelyhood of winning in poker depends on what you already got dealt and what other cards got dealt and so on. What does "purely random" even mean? Like a lottery with equal chance of winning for all participants? Yea that's gambling but just one kind of gambling.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    But that is what the whole discussion is about. Many scenarios aren't just gambling because they have a degree of predictability to it: poker, stock market, betting on the day when the US starts WW3.

    Probably only quantum processes are truly random, but for this argument, processes are practically random if the governing variables are not human-knowable. A dice throw, roulette, lottery numbers drawn from a bowl. They are deep down deterministic, but not predictable to any degree.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Eh, it's probably more effective to ban payment services from performing transactions. Doesn't stop crypto currencies but it would still be 99% effective.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Polymarket agreed to stop offering its service in France in 2024. There is no non-crypto transaction to block for France.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago

    Based, but imo flawed - its setting yet another precedent that governments can block access to sites they deem "incorrect". Take away their ability to make a profit, cut off their payment systems, but dont you dare try to regulate who is allowed on the internet

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    Some people seems to think that blocking a site sets a bad precedent. It's too late for that, France routinely block illegal download sites. That's the reason openDNS stopped operating in france.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    As is should be.

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  • 7 comments in c/DeclineIntoCensorship@lemmy.dbzer0.com view that post
    [–] 15 points 3 months ago

    no I actually think this is a good thing considering polymarket is a source of disinformation in itself.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago*

    Polymarket is an unregulated gambling site and actively harmful. I don't think this should be considered a "decline into censorship".

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    This is a highly manipulated gambling site where you can bet on which dates countries bomb each other. imho good thing

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    I mean, is there anyone who thinks Polymarket should exist in the first place?

    Does Polymarket exist to criticize a government or its policies? Does it blow the whistle on a the practices of religion or corporation? Is it an environmental or consumer product watchdog?

    Is it really censorship if it’s whole purpose is to siphon away the one resource necessary to survive in the society we’ve created though addiction and manipulation?

    I guess what I’m saying is, there are certain amounts of censorship I’m willing to tolerate. Fuck Polymarket and online gambling, it should all have stayed illegal.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Not censorship. Polymarket and Kalshi primarily benefit those with insider information, not the vast majority of the world.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    the vpn lobby at it again

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    We like things we can block. We are smart.

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