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[–] 128 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I think that before any apologies can be made, the next president would have to send trump & his entire administration to trial, convict them, and sentence them.

Also, they would have to work on passing legislation to make sure another trump never happens (remove the loopholes, the excess of power to the executive branch, the corruption in all three branches, citizens united, the heritage foundation).

…and then do an apology tour. Apologies would mean nothing, if four years later we’re in a position to do the same bullshit again. We need to prove that we can be stable, reliable, and resilient. Make sure our house is in order. THAT’S the apology the world needs to hear.

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago

    The oligarchy will never charge one of their own, I've been saying this since before Biden went in and we saw first hand they will do nothing to hold him accountable. This is what happens when they all answer to the same people

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    Your comment prompted my memory of what I think Benjamin Franklin said when the country was born. In response to the question of what type of government they'd designed, he said something to the effect of: "A democracy, if you can keep it."

    Even then, they were mindful of some of the weaknesses of their grand design

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  • [–] 42 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, it's going to take a generation to undo all the harm this administration has caused.

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  • [–] 37 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The President, the Senate, the Supreme "Court" and a large contingent of their wealthy and elite went apeshit.

    No one will trust the US for at least a lifetime, if they can get their act together before completely self immolating.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    The damage this administration caused may never truly be undone, as the issues that led to all of this stem from the country's very core.

    Other countries aren't going to want to make long term deals with a country who may immediately go against said deal because they elected a nutjob. Allies are now seeing that America can and will turn on them despite decades of positive relations purely because of the president's whims, even threatening invasion over imaginary threats. It's been shown that America's political system is so utterly broken and rotten that somebody as unqualified and psychotic as Trump can win an election not only once, but twice, and that it can't be relied upon for anything long term since it's always one bad election from unravelling.

    America has lost its soft power, its respect on the world stage, and as the Iran war has proven thus far, its ability to project its power outside of its borders effectively. Its government has been gutted and replaced with sycophants devoted to one man, and I'm sure they'll sabotage things if they're forced out. America is toast.

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  • [–] 36 points 4 months ago

    It won't be enough. Even if they do one, our allies know ~80 Million US Citizens will turn on them at the drop of a hat, the second a convicted felon, adjudicated rapist, conman tells them our allies are "bad" and "stealing from us". So our allies are separating themselves from us. They are getting rid of our technology, goods, and services. That will cost the US Trillions in losses, from Visa/Mastercard alone, but it also costs us Safety. Because those allies won't be as willing to share Intel with us. Many have already cut off Intel sharing. And that's the way we stay safest.

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago

    I don't think it matters. The rest of the world has already learned that the US can only be trusted for four years at a time at best.

    It's not like people are going to start trusting Russia either once Putin is gone.

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  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    The best apology will be executions.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Yeah, don't apologize, be better. Starting with rooting out all the fascist dickheads. Other nations shouldn't take anything we say seriously until the holes that made this situation possible are filled.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago

    I used to be a pacifist. This goddamn regime killed that pretty damn quick.

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  • [–] 37 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    If we elect a non-Trump-aligned president, there really is no point to do an apology tour. Obama did it because we could pass the Bush, fils presidency, as a one-off. But after electing Bush twice and Trump twice the world knows the United States can never be trusted again.

    Fool me four times, won't get fooled again.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago

    I don't know that it would help. The longer Americans keep Trump in power, the more their former allies realize that it isn't "just Trump".

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago

    People still assuming this will just magically over after the next election

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    Reading the comments here, It seems my disabled, poor ass is never going to get to leave the USA, even if I had the means. I voted against the orange regime and it's similar evils over the years.. And yet, I will be condemned to the mass grave that is soon to be America. I guess know that I genuinely tried my best, from talking relatives on how the orange was evil, to helping people vote for candidates that aligned more with the world's values, and protested even if it wasn't on the street, it was in my own way.. Because I'm disabled in the USA.. and it sometimes difficult to even survive, let alone topple an evil regime. But if I am to be lumped in with rest of the pigs if the US.. I guess. When you find my body, you'll wonder how a human got in the pig mass grave.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    Yep! That's how it goes.

    You can see something similar if you look at Ukraine threads talking about Russians, or Gaza threads talking about Israelis.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    Humanity sure has a lack of humanity. Its.. Really not fair. I've been against this type if evil all my life.. And my reward is that get to die with them.. It really isn't fair... Like comicly unfair. For me nor for them. So why try anymore?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    We continue to try because it is our duty to humanity. We struggle because it is right to struggle for goodness. And together we hope that by our struggles we can impact the world for the better and move towards an international community of those who struggle for goodness.

    The evil wish us to despair and stop.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Just wish I knew how he copes with dispare.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Well, there's a whole book about it. Matter of fact, the dude wrote many books on the topic.

    Type "one must imagine Sisyphus happy" into your search engine of choice.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    Did some reading. I've suffered most of my life and I've watched my own boulder roll down the hill many times. It seems Sisyphus didn't have any physical conditions that made it harder each time. No wonder he is happy. He is struggling, but not in pain that isn't self inflicted. So he can take his happy ass and keep on a pushing like a mother who continues to raise thier kids despite those kids draining everything they held dear. Or the a farmer who enjoys the tough summer days.

    But, me, all my strength was taken from me via disease. All my stamina snapped away due to a body who aches to die but a soul that stays alive because my death would mean the sarrow for many.

    As much as I sacrificed, as much as I suffer, and as much cry out in pain only known to a select few, there is no reward, there is no peace, and there is no happiness.

    He can stay happy, he is a useful machine to those in power. Contact me when he figures out that the gods themselves are the evil ones.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Hmm. Well, it is pretty clear you didn't do any reading.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Sorry I didn't read the entire book. Too busy trying to not being in pain and trying to survive in this helish world and trying to maximize my time with family, friends, and people who loving me instead of reading a book that who's goal is to tell me: "life is suffering, be happy about it because without suffering there is no happiness." Absurdism is symptom of gross inequality, not a valid way to live and a excuse to not fight for change. Entropy may be the natural state of the universe, and I will agree fighting it is a fruitless battle, but dancing with it and telling it to fuck off for abit while we fix some problems it caused isn't.

    Instead of me wasting time on a damn book, why don't you explain the nuance I missed?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Oh, I'm not implying you didn't read the book. That part is extremely obvious. I'm implying that you didn't even bother skimming the wikipedia article.

    Not really sure what I can do with that. Maybe you'll be better off wallowing?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I read the wiki, I read reddit discussions, I've skimmed other essays. I still hold my claims. What do you think I'm missing? I don't wallow in dispair, you act like I have a choice when it is the farthest from the truth. The only reason I have any remote ammount if happiness is that I broke the boulder. Sisyphus is a bitch.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Then it's a problem of reading comprehension, because absurdism is not that. Absurdism is finding joy in action.

    The only reason I have any remote ammount if happiness is that I broke the boulder. Sisyphus is a bitch.

    Go wallow in your misery then.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Read just fine. I'm glad you find joy on action. For me action causes lots of pain due disability. So I must be selective with action. When you find no joy in action because every action brings you pain, it is very difficult to be happy in the struggle. The actions I do, like responding to you, have meaning becausey literal blood is within them. But there is no joy. I only feel joy something finally eases the pain. I'm sorry your philosophy did not hold against this human.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    I think they should start killing the more serious offenders in the party.

    Round them up convict them and shoot them in the face and broadcast it.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    As a Canadian, an "apology tour" would feel like this to me.

    If the next administration wants forgiveness it'll have to show real progress on fixing America's broken system of government and its broken culture. That'll take longer than four years so the next administration should not expect forgiveness. The best it can hope for is to get started on eventual forgiveness.

    In the meantime we need to keep diversifying away from America and building defenses against them because there's no reason to extend the benefit of the doubt. They elected not-Trump after the previous time Trump was elected and where did that lead them? Back to Trump.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Exactly this. The whole "RAH RAH MURICA IS THE BEST" overly nationalistic mentality America has is killing it. When they refuse to recognize their country's problems and deflect and attack when faced with criticism, it prevents them from addressing those problems until they're too big to ignore. It's nuts how many people in America are living in trailers at astounding levels of poverty, yet they are ferociously loyal to a country and party that doesn't give a single flying fuck about them or the 12 American flags flying amongst all the junk and garbage strewn about the lawn.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    No.

    Apologies won't do shit since Americans have shown they're absolute morons by electing Trump twice and Republicans constantly. The American people have shown that America is too stupid to govern.

    If by some miracle progressives and non-republican Democrats get elected into majority power they'd be better off simply passing legislation to ensure Republicans can never have power again if they actually want to get the world to trust America again.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    It is in many ways frightening to think that a population that is largely uninterested in what happens in the wider world gets to vote for the president who holds the most power in the entire world

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    An apology tour would be nice, but probably not terribly effective. Realistically, it will take at least a decade before the rest of the world will be able to start trusting the US again. We’ll need to see that they’ve learned their lesson and made the necessary changes such that the next few elections result in administrations that are trustworthy, and that they don’t just flip-flop back again after a president or two.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago

    Yes, but

    It will never go back. The new US will need to learn to be one of many at the table. A powerful one by all means, but one of many nevertheless. The ability to dictate terms to others is gone, all of the leverage has been used, for little gain, and the trust isn't there anymore. Everyone has hedged against the US, decoupled, and persued other arrangements.

    Europe is gone from the empire and will demand massive concessions to let the US even near its strategic policy. Concessions the US can probably can not pay. Remember, the US started a war with the Russians on Europe's doorstep and then not only abandoned it's allies, it threatened to invade from the other side (and is still doing so). Europe deployed against the US. The US is openly hostile - an enemy of Europe. There's no coming back from that.

    For better or worse the US is on its own now. Allies are theoretical at best. On its own the US is a western hemisphere regional power. The global power it enjoyed came from the alliances and it was paid for by the economic interdependence of the alliance system. That system is over.

    The dominance of the USD is done, that was based on trust, trade is no longer conducted in USD exclusively and currencies no longer route through USD. With the reserve currency status destroyed, the US will have to learn to pay it's bills like everyone else, from productive work. No more printing money to pay debts on printed money.

    Without those things trillion dollar military budgets are out of the question, global force projection becomes impossible. Even enforcing Monroe is probably impossible, the Chinese and Europe are already making inroads in south America and as those investments increase so will the need to protect those.

    So apologies are necessary for a reset of relations, yes. But those new relations will look very different from what we have known. It's a multi polar world now and the US sphere of influence is shrinking to just north America, and even there, the other two countries are not on board and are moving towards EU.

    The future is one of US decline and it's up to Americans how they want to navigate it. Learn to live with the others or fight a losing battle against everyone. Or end the world.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    No. Just fucking fix everything.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    I don't think it will work. Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize for not being W Bush and then the USA elected Trump twice.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    too litte too late for apologies… trust is dead and it would take generations and grovelling to get it back

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago*

    Meaningless wordy apologies piss me off.
    Apologize with actions.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago
    [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Nope ,taco said it ,no more elections ,this is over and out

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Fix America for good. We are watching. A personal apology tour will not be needed, as long as this president will fix what is broken, inside the US and in international relations.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Hopefully there will be no next president. Let the country end with this one.

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  • It’s not a thing we’re going to recover from quickly. It’ll probably take a generation - if not several. We are continuing to squander reputation and trust that has been built over the course of more than a century. The damage being done here cannot be overstated. It’s geopolitically catastrophic. We are creating a power vacuum, and Europe isn’t stepping up nearly aggressively enough.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Look to Hungary for advice. We're trying to systematically clean out every trace of the old regime. It's not easy and probably won't be perfect but people are being arrested.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I think he will be preoccupied with the downfall.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Let's see.

    1. Economic and strategic oil reserves are declining fast, with seemingly no effort to conserve oil. Thanks to the war with Iran.
    2. The only reason the US is not in a recession yet is because of AI, which is not profitable, and destined to crash.
    3. Other nations are slowly divesting from US treasuries, limiting the financial options.
    4. Infrastructure has been rotting for decades, and it's starting to break down.
    5. Climate change has started to produce dangerous heat waves and other extreme weather, further straining infrastructure.

    Anyway, that's what I can think of from the top of my head.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    I honestly don't see America lasting long enough to get another president if he tries to remain in office. Not that he would be able to manage it, but the calamity would be enough to make it all fall apart. As it is, it's hard enough finding a job right now. And those that do have jobs are struggling to get by as it is. America's already being dismantled, and there's just no way Democrats win for the next 40 years in a row to fix it. But our infrastructure was already shit, and it keeps getting worse because nobody's willing to spend the money to get it done. Between that, election rigging, natural disasters due to climate change, our failing economy... It doesn't look good and America's best hope is balkanization.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    The stupidity of this administration should never be excused.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Do you think the US needs to apologize just because of Trump?

    Every History book is full of things that the US should already been accountable for

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    Lip service is pointless. America is so utterly broken as a country that it's going to take more than words for other countries to take it seriously again. America is only one more election away from just unraveling again, and its system is (by design) rotten and dysfunctional and won't stop being so without major reform. I don't see that happening under the two party system.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    Somewhat. Reversing a lot of policies and respecting allies again will go a long way, but it's going to take some time. New pathways have already been forged that will leave the usa somewhat excluded and behind. They will be a diminished nation from what they once were, and that would be a good thing, as they no longer shared any values with most of the rest of the world. trump is nothing more than the lipstick on the pig that has become "america".

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    too much damage has been done, the next dem is likely going to be someone like NEWSOME, which as you know is just old guard DNC.

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  • The US so broken that if they want to apologize, SCOTUS, congress, and the senate are have to each as a whole go around to every Provincial capital and apologize on their knees. After they threatened to invade Canada and Denmark we demand no less. The legislative branch is equally guilty, they are just letting this happen. And yes we don't care if it was 51% of the executive branch, the dems are part of the problem.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago
    [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    They may talk one thing about unity and fixing stuff, but at their core they condone everything that's happened

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    I don't want to hear it. Fuck you, America. The GOP has united the entire world around hating you and it's gonna burn for a generation.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    Why would they do that? That would be like taking responsibility for a previous administration's fuckery. The best thing the next president could do would be to do everything they can force Red States to improve their education systems so that the next generation grows up able to think critically and have things like good judgment of character.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    That won't happen? Why would King Trump apologize?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    Friend, the next President of the United States is either going to be Trump, Vance, or Elon Musk.

    And there will be no apologies.

    Sadly, that’s the direction things are headed.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Strangely enough I almost think the military is our best hope of redemption. Think about it, all the "checks and balances" have failed. The last way our "government" can be redeemed is if the military throws a coup to overthrow the president and host another election. The world cannot see that we are ok with our govemrnent being the way it is without consequence. Will this happen? No. But I do think it's one of the few ways to retain our global credibility that's already all burnt up.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    I’m guessing you mean president of USA? Nah we don’t care about USA anymore.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah in English we call it America. Hope this helps.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I don’t think so. As a gringo, you may call it America, but for instance your northern neighbors probably have a different opinion…?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago
    [–] -4 points 4 months ago

    No, he'll receive a Nobel Peace Prize for the achievement of being US president while not being Donald Trump.

    Tell me you don't remember 2009 without telling me you don't remember 2009.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    Yeah probably, some will keep a grudge, but people nowawadays have very short memories, so will probably forget in a decade

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