I think one of the reasons some of the little kids in my life like me is I try to give them honest explanations. They don't always fully understand, but I think they appreciate getting answers. And probably appreciate the occasional "I don't know, actually. Let's look it up"

it's frankly baffling to me that people don't just throw in a one-sentence explanation of why kids should do things, how tf are they supposed to learn?

Something i've come to realize is that an absolutely horrifying amount of my """autistic""" traits were just from not having had the opportunity to learn things, like when i was a kid i literally didn't understand that i was supposed to speak up if i'm in pain, i just sort of assumed that adults knew and didn't care.
Just in the past 5-10 years my life has been hugely improved by seeking out knowledge on my own, to the point that i now find informal social stuff so easy that other people are impressed.

It's why i'm an ardent supporter of the idea that most (or at least many) disabilities are almost entirely a problem with society, not the individual. And the depressing thing is that a lot of the adjustments to be made are really not that significant at all.

My parents did this as well, and I have massive respect for them because of it. Similarly, the only time my dad would yell at me was when something was urgent and dangerous and he needed me to do the thing right then and there's no time to explain. I knew I could always ask for an explanation after the fact.

In my experience the reason is often "because fuvk [relevant slur]"

And because they hurt people. And will not apologise or even acknowledge it and prevent it from happening again. See different religions, police forces, politicians, CEOs, ... fuck authorities, if they don't have a proper process to deal with their own errors.

I do that a lot

this is basically how the scentific process was invented.

"your shit sucks"
"yeah? prove it, fuckface"
"WELL HAHA HERE'S A FUCKING EXPERIMENT THAT PROVES IT, SUCK IT WHOPAOW"

A little girl sees her mum cooking sausages and asks "mum, why do you cut the ends off of the sausages before you fry them?" Her mum replies "well, that's how I learned it from my mother."

So the girl calls her grandma and asks "grandma, why do you and mum always cut the ends off of sausages before you fry them?" The grandma replies "well, that's how I learned it from my mother."

So the girl calls her great grandmother and asks "great grandma, why do you, mum and grandma always cut the ends off of sausages before you fry them?" The great grandma replies "have they not bought a bigger pan yet?"

“because that’s just how things are done”

Yeah, that's the essence of conservatism.

Mom, please get off the internet. It's not good for you.

For clarification, Just joking. That sentence was one of the most repeated anwsers to everything when i dared to ask how something works from my mother.

And also "this is how we've always done it" - cool, you've always done it wrong.

I literally did that when I started my current gig, because they were doing so many things manually that were trivially automated and didn't require a three page checklist and multiple hours of time. Within 3 months I took a 4-5hr/instance task into a 30 minute one that also gives you 80% of the shit you need to check off on the QA sheet.

More people need to read his books if for no other reason than to have their eyes opened to that.

Exactly. This thread is a good reverse example for those wanting to learn to be more sensitive. There hasn't been much sensitivity displayed here.

As someone neurodivergent but not autistic I definitely see both perspectives here.

Sometimes the rules are stupid or unclear and the autistic person who's willing to ask the questions changes it from "everyone is winging it in accordance with their own interpretation without understanding why" to bringing everyone onto the same page.

But on the other hand, I and most non autistic people, can instinctively interpret the questioning of the rules as disrespect for the clear reason for them or as a polite way of calling the rule bullshit. I've had enough experience with autistic folks to ask for clarity and try to explain, but most neurotypicals don't (doesn't make it ok). This is something neurotypicals need to be taught to be sympathetic towards. It will make them better not just at interacting with autistic people but with being coherent towards each other and preventing the situation where everyone just assumes their way to incoherence.

Also sometimes it's a situation of "can you please just accept the rules so we can get to what we're here to do?", which is a situation where I'm sympathetic to both sides.

Nah. Those people are just always the problem. They are how the world got like this. Modern (and historic) articulations of tyranny that last more than five minutes would not be possible without them.

Yeah! That feels like the right approach!

What is an example of a safety rule who's conditions no longer exist which would not have the conditions almost immediately return if the rule was removed?

Like every example I can think of is a regulation to stop companies from hurting people which they would simply resume doing given the choice, thus making us still need the rule?

And I'd like to know the latter even if they're no longer appropriate.

Realistically, this is how I actually handle these situations. I don't like being rude to people, even when I refuse to follow norms. Besides, I get away with a lot more rule breaking when I am nice and likable.

A common issue autistic people have is with "implied authority", which has the same main issue as social cues. Doing things because "that's how its always been". A manager who has a job due to nepotism and a common courtesy that is just a white lie are going to cause the same kind of rage in an autist. If it can't be explained in a way that is logical and fair, they will not have any patience for it.

This meme is not about anarchists.

"So you see, the carrier of charge is the electron, and when they are non uniformly distributed in a conductor, it produces the electromotive force..."

4 years later

"And that's how Gay Sonic memes are stored on the Internet."

I'm willing to postpone explanations if they insist, but I still eventually want an answer

It's like people think I'm just trying to be an asshole. I really don't like starting conflict without having a good reason, and questioning the questionable is one of the best reasons out there.

I swear, some of my recent posts have brought out some nasty responses that I didn't expect. On one hand, I don't want to hold myself back from posting stuff just because I fear unjustified backlash. At the same time, I need to better prepare myself for it.

If somebody asks why a rule is the way it is, something really beautiful happens if people entertain and allow that questioning.

What happens in the interim? Is the rule enforced while it's under debate, or does the question suspend the enforcement?

If I tell someone to move their car because they're blocking the bike lane, I'm not inviting a debate about whether it's a good idea to have a rule like that. The rule is there to save me (a biker) time on my commute, and stopping to explain the rule would defeat the purpose of the rule.

Same with the tech support caller who insists that the support agent explain everything to the user, without the background knowledge of being able to understand the explanation. It's a waste of time.

Or, if a rule is suspended while being challenged, then people can opportunistically challenge rules to try to get an advantage. That's why pretty much any sport that allows for challenges during a game/match limits the number of challenges and limits the scope of calls that can be challenged, and has a specific limited period for proposing rule changes (in the off-season, to take effect the next season).

Sometimes people are just annoyingly obtuse, and their challenges to a rule or the application of a rule do more harm than good. It's important to be able to justify a rule, but it's also important to limit the time, place, or manner in which that rule can be challenged.

Is the rule well intentioned but impossible or self defeating to apply consistently, and the intent needs to be known because that's the only part that's worth a single fuck?

You're right. You can also learn a lot about the culture and society around you because of that questioning, even if you end up still following the rules.

On the other hand, what's there to gain from following the rules without question and forcing others to do the same? The only thing I can imagine right now that could be gained is the feeling that you are helping society "stay in the right track".

This means that there are about 3 options:

1. Learn something new;
2. Continue to follow the rules without question while trying to force others to not learn something new, and feel good about it.
3. Do nothing and continue to follow the rules (you're not bothered enough to learn something new, but also don't want to be a pain in the ass);

Notice that when questioning the rules, you might come to the conclusion that there's no harm in following the rules, or that following the rules is what's the best for you or those around you. Questioning ≠ opposing. Question = checking validity and understanding why.

For the reasons Michael has outlined above, questioning the rules feels like the most productive approach.

Yeah, convincing me to find another job.

An object at rest tends to stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force.

Supremely unconvincing.

At a certain point, you just gotta label it as "management bullshit" as shorthand. Besides, is management causes confusion that makes it hard to get anything done, that's their fault. In an ideal world, competition from the market would weed out the bad ones, but competition is pressure capitalists loves to mitigate.

Maybe that's a sign that we don't need all that bullshit management then?

"I can explain" is different from "you can understand", and chain of command means you do not have to reason with literally everyone involved/affected by your decision. So if used well, the drop-any-rule-lacking-backup is useful

This is why fascists hate us autistic people :3c

Exactly! Cannot be allowed!

"Do it or the state will hurt you" is a valid reason that I will understand. I will still sneakily do the thing instead if I think it's worth the risk, but I do consider the reason.