Canadians: Greenland must be the line in the sand. Non negotiable.

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[–] 129 points 10 months ago (69 children)

Americans know. They just don’t have any idea what to do, and no single person can solve the problem.

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  • [–] 46 points 10 months ago (27 children)

    It might take the world.... Going to war.

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  • [–] 108 points 10 months ago (20 children)

    The world doesn't need to go to war, it needs to stop being afraid of a major economic downturn.

    Stop everything with the US: trade, travel, everything. Deport all Americans back to their native soil. Isolate them, and see how quickly things change.

    While we're at it, do the same with Russia and Israel. And maybe China?

    Would it cause a global economic crisis? Probably. But people are already dyingβ€”it's worth it if we can actually end a genocide and a couple wars.

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  • [–] 43 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    So much this. Just 100% stop all trade with the United States. All of it. And zero travel. Then ban US travel to your country. Give them the isolation they crave.

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Software can be made literally anywhere, and computer parts are made in China and other SE Asian countries anyway.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The comment said nothing about the ban having to be this instant. They said to stop all trade. That could just as well mean, take the necessary steps to stop all trade as feasibly fast as possible. How long do you think it would take for China to be able to export computer hardware directly to the EU if the EU said tomorrow "As soon as you can supply hardware, we will stop all trade with USA"? China is the champion of accelerated manufacturing, they'd be supplying us in a couple of months.

    There already is open source software solution for by FAR most software that is used. Most companies don't actually need proprietary software from USA, they can switch very quickly, especially if they get a deadline in a month to switch everything away from Linux, 'cause then the profits are on the line.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago

    No, definitely impose sanctions and stop trade, but don't ban travel. Let the brain drain do its thing.

    Some of us do not consent to the actions of this rogue administration, and we don't crave isolation. Some of us desperately want a way out of this country.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    From an EU perspective that sounds like isolationism, I mean the USA, China, Russia, ... would basically be forced to trade more between them.

    It could work if selective, but we'd need the rest of the world on our side first or it'd just backfire.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    Deport all Americans back to their native soil.

    I haven't lived there in a decade and only maintain citizenship to have access to my parents in cases of emergency. Why on earth would you send me back to that hell-hole? All that accomplishes is destroying my family, my business, my wife's ability to live, etc.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    I don't agree with them, but I do see the logic. Send back a bunch Americans who saw good reason to leave and perhaps they'll be forced to try to make it more like wherever they fled to.

    Or it's just vindictive "Trump deports people so we deport people" idiocy, idk

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    but I do see the logic.

    I don't. What are they going to do? A lot of people I know who live abroad have done so for decades and have no living family in the US. All it would do is introduce a bunch of homeless people to the US and destroy lives. I voted against the current administration and disagree with everything they do. Guess they should just make my wife homeless, get my house repossessed, destroy my career, and probably just end with me killing myself because of where I was born. Must be big fans of ICEs work, I guess.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    In this hypothetical scenario, maybe you could just renounce your citizenship (and stop paying taxes to the US).

    In all cases, retaliation against a fascist regime will destroy lives, but it's generally the better option. I mean people suggest to stop trading with the US or crash their economy, this is not victimless either.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    I plan to renounce but I need to be able to help my parents if they need it. Family comes first here. I do not have to pay taxes, just file them; especially with the weak Japanese yen, I don't make enough to need to pay anything.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Indeed. It's terrible and it's also the reason we don't visit family in the US (my wife is not a US citizen and barely speaks English). I do not support it, I voted against the current administration, and I have removed as many US companies as possible from my life.

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  • [–] 25 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Nah. Just start selling the US bonds that backs the US currency. The USD with crash in value.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Most of the people in charge don't have their value in USD, they have it in material and speculative value. The crash of the USD will hurt everyone but them.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Crashing the USD would be its demise as the global reserve currency, which would evaporate all that speculative value overnight.

    Sure, the oligarchs would still have their mansions, bunkers, and bullet-proof SUVs, but their primary source of leverage and influence would be gone. They would become irrelevant.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Would this finally cause the american population enough distress to heave themselves off their armchairs, put down their hotdogs, turn off the TV, and get out the guillotines?

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    American hero Tommy β€œiron sights” Crooks?

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (13 children)

    and no single person can solve the problem.

    That's a big part of their problem. They keep thinking about individual actions instead of coming together and acting as a group toward a common goal.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    Yeah well we had β€œNo Kings” and people came together, yet nothing happened. A few million people showed up and then went home.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    and then went home.

    That's part of the problem.

    Effective protesting isn't a "one and done" thing.

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  • [+] 14 points 10 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    How do you strike if you're already unemployed? So many people are already losing their jobs to automation and AI.

    Also, one of the most insidious aspects of american healthcare is that by tying it to employment, people become utterly dependent on their employers. They lose a lot of leverage.

    How do you risk your livelihood when you have cancer or diabetes and your corporate benefits are the only way you can afford healthcare?

    Not to mention, most of the american workforce is not unionized. How do you organize a strike without workers unions?

    Plus, there is a precedent in recent history where congress can pass legislation making it illegal for workers to continue a strike. How that doesn't qualify as forced labor, is beyond me.

    So you see, there are many roadblocks to having an effective strike in the US, especially when the american system has been designed over the decades and centuries specifically to advance and protect the interests of the wealthy elite.

    It's not about making excuses, it's about acknowledging the practical realities that get in the way of progress.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    To add to that yeah, there's a lot of guns in this country. In a lot of people's hands. Including those OKAY with all this.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    And the rittenhouse case shows that in america, you can get away with shooting/murdering protesters, if you're a white conservative.

    But a liberal counter-protester bringing a gun to a trump rally? Not even white privilege will protect you at that point...

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I agree, but the ability to strike in America was purposefully neutered. The only real way to strike effectively would be, at best, extra-legal, if not outright illegal. It's not like most of the civilized world. The "leader of the free world" has made it very hard for the citizens to freely stand against it.

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  • [+] 26 points 10 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    It needs to happen regardless, but no, we are worse off than they were. There are a lot more ways to track people, which is one major negative. Back then there weren't a system designed to prevent and punish striking. Now there is. If it ends up happening at the scale that's needed to make a difference then there will be fights against private militias and the government again.

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  • [+] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)
  • There was, we call it Pinkerton, among others. At least now you can organize out in the open.

    No, you can't. The US is so anti-union that there is a real risk of you getting reported to your boss for mentioning unionizing to your coworkers. They can't openly fire you for trying to unionize, but most of the US is "at will employment," which means that they can fire you at any time and don't need to say why.

    This is a real sign

    Check out this article: Trump is the biggest union-buster in U.S. history

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Except that the US government and corporations have spent the years since convincing the people that there's a right way to protest, and that it's by holding signs on a street corner - preferably out of view. This is why MLK was seen as a violent thug during the Civil Rights Movement and is seen as a hero today. Their struggle has been whitewashed to remove what actually happened and turned into an example of changing things the "right way" - by gently asking your oppressors to stop oppressing you. The US is one of the most propagandized populations on the planet. Our children pledge their undying loyalty every morning to the flag that hangs in every classroom. The only other countries on Earth to have done that are North Korea and the Hitler's Youth program in Nazi Germany.

    They've also gutted any form of support network for the same reason. The US populace is staunchly anti-union because companies have convinced us that worker's rights are bad. They've made everybody dependent on keeping their job to keep food on the table and a roof over their head, of course, but also to see a doctor if you have a fever. And God forbid it's anything worse than that. It's bread and circuses with a dash of the Sword of Damocles.

    So not only do we have to convince people to risk their lives to fight a fascist regime and their police force that is armed as well as many countries military, we have to convince the pearl clutchers that snarky taglines on signs aren't going to solve things, and reconstruct support networks that haven't existed for over half a century, and prevent the 45% of the population who support the fascists from voluntarily drafting themselves to root out any resistance, if not start shooting them in the streets. The FBI spends half their time putting down white supremacist militias. All they'd have to do is stop doing that and let the Trump regime do the rest by tweeting from the toilet at 3am. Those most likely to take up arms against the system are the same people who support the current system.

    The average person isn't brave enough to risk their life. If they were, we'd see Canadians coming down to burn down the White House again. We'd see Mexicans crossing the southern border. We'd see aid networks forming from other countries to provide support for anybody willing to resist. But we don't and we won't. And I don't mean that in a "other countries should solve American problems" way, but that people in other countries are just as likely to say, "Not my fight, not my problem. Somebody else should deal with it" as Americans are. It's human nature. If it wasn't, we'd see more people taking out healthcare CEOs. More people would've supported the IRA. We'd have far more examples instead of Blair Mountain and the Haymarket Affair.

    It's easy for the armchair generals of the world to say that Americans should just arm themselves and go to war against the largest military on the planet when it isn't their necks on the line.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Thank you. Really tired of the whole 'do something' when the very system, propaganda machine, and half the population is conditioned to fight their neighbors because of lies about who those neighbors are or what those neighbors believe. We have a population that will attempt a coup over a lie no one can prove with evidence, but support the side lying to them about it all when they're told to look the other way about this regimes many crimes.

    The armchair warriors around the world are tired of the inaction from Americans? Try living here and needing to fight against the fascism while half the country tries to stop you to own the libs. It's fucking exhausting. I've lost friends and family to their bullshit excuses of essentially if they're not doing anything wrong, then they have nothing to worry about. We're fucking pissed, too, but short of calling, writing, voting, protesting, and trying to engage and help our communities, what should we do?

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