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[–] 21 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Why do people just GIVE their soul to Jesus when Satan is willing to pay you for it?

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Satan doesn’t want your soul. He wants you to use it for yourselves.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Technically, he wants to use it to get back at God for casting him and his buddies into hell in the first place.

    It’s complicated

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Depends upon whether you subscribe to Christian propaganda, medieval literature, or modern-day non-esoteric Satanism.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    Oh, I definitely prefer John Milton‘s version from Paradise Lost. It’s by far the most interesting, and, at least, consistent. However, reading it was a fucking nightmare. Eat my ass, iambic pentameter. I never would’ve gotten through it without the annotated version from Norton’s Anthology of English Literature.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Satan isn’t evil. He is to God what Linux is to Windows: Freedom, independence, choice, responsibility. No wonder those in power want their sheep to believe otherwise.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Linux and Windows are but two sides of the same coin, mere tools of evil created to lure us away from the divine perfection that is TempleOS 🙏

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    TempleOS (formerly J Operating System, LoseThos, and SparrowOS) is a biblical-themed lightweight operating system (OS) designed to be the Third Temple from the Hebrew Bible. It was created by American computer programmer Terry A. Davis, who developed it alone over the course of a decade after a series of manic episodes that he later described as a revelation from God. TempleOS could be considered as an example of coding as an art form, with the nature of his psychological instability and its influence over the project lending to comparisons to similar outsider art.
    -TempleOS page on Wikipedia.

    That... uh. That sounds interesting. I like to distrohop so ... any one know how I can try it?

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    In Catholic theology, anyway, Satan is not the boss of hell. He is a prisoner in it just like everyone else, just more notorious than the rest.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    In John Milton‘s Paradise Lost, he’s practically a hero (specifically, an anti-hero) and one of the most sympathetic characters in literary history. Milton got into a lot of trouble for it at the time.

    In Dante‘s Inferno, the ninth circle of hell is Satan, frozen solid, in a block/pit of ice.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    But then why would a prisoner want to bring more people into prison? Because misery loves company? If I were Satan, I wouldn't want my oppressor to get more playthings.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    According to some versions of the lore, it's because he wants to corrupt God's creation out of jealousy. If he couldn't get it his way, it should all burn.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Specifically from Milton‘s Paradise lost, Lucifer is outraged that, when God created mankind, he gave them something he never gave the angels: the free will to choose whether or not to worship God. Angels, the original creation of God, and who were supposed to be perfect, were never given the free will whether or not to worship God. From their creation, they were always forced to worship God.

    It was Lucifer‘s argument that, of course, he would choose to, were he actually given that choice. He went to God and demanded that angels be given the same choice as mankind, and God basically told him to go fuck himself. That angels are perfect, and to imply otherwise by suggesting he give angels any kind of choice was, itself, blasphemy.

    And thus the war of heaven began, splitting half of the angels of heaven against the other half in a war that lasted millennia. Eventually, the angels that fought for freedom, led by Lucifer, were cast out of heaven into a newly created realm called hell. In their fall, which landed them in hell so very hard, it twisted and mutilated all of them. And that’s how demons were created.

    So, this is the motivation of Lucifer, now called Satan, to constantly tempt humankind away from the glory of God, and to choose to worship something else. To tempt humankind into sin... Because they can choose. It’s not so much out of jealousy, but out of spite.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    The most confusing part of this is that Lucifer was able to make the choice to say "wait, this is fucked up." If they were truly forced to worship God, no angel would have been able to say that 🤷

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The show Lucifer is fun way to explore that.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    he isnt

    he is tempting them to sin

    but when the time comes

    he will be thrown into the abyss

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    You know what? They've already lost it. It's gone, BUD! Whatever it is, whatever they were... Gone. He who looks into the abyss realizes that there's nothin' looking back at him and the only thing he sees is his own character. You understand? Bud? The abyss? The shit abyss?

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  • 58 comments in c/memes@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 50 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    Satan doesn't do the punishing, God does.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    The exponential scale is killing me.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    One interpretation is that the denizens of hell actually punish themselves. They know their actions were evil and sent them there, and that they deserve the punishment, so they receive the punishment they think they deserve.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Jason Lee's character in Dogma brings this up. He said that initially Hell was just the absence of God (which in itself is said to be painful), but once humans got there they were so unable to forgive themselves and live without the divine presence that they turned it into a place of unimaginable pain and suffering.

    I don't think that's supported by the Bible and I'm not sure if that's a position that was even put forth by later Christian thinkers, but it's all mythology to me anyway and I find the different interpretations interesting.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    I'm fairly sure it's the interpretation Dante runs with in Inferno. I have no clue if it was the popular belief at the time, but it does show the idea has been around for at least 700 years or so.

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  • [–] 48 points 4 months ago (15 children)

    Because that lore isn't from The Bible, it's from Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    The number of people that think things from Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost are from the Bible is shockingly large.

    Just goes to show how few actually read anything from the various flavors of Bible. So much effort to bring those words to a form the average person could read, instead of relying on Clergy to interpret for them... and no one does it.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    i mean, they're fanfiction based off contemporary understandings of the bible, so i get it.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (7 children)

    I’m pretty sure Dante Alighieri was not writing fanfiction, but was in fact creating a satirical work, as he wrote this during his years of being Excommunicated. Which is also part of The reason it’s referred to as The Divine Comedy (La Divina Commedia). He was excommunicated for false political crimes.

    Also Dante’s Inferno was also a proof of concept for what became the modern Italian language.

    ( though if you’re saying fan fiction sarcastically I do agree)

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Look man if someone comes to found a new language based on Harry Potter smut it won't change what it was.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Hahaha, that’s a fantastic point

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (4 children)

    @Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world i would like to read this harry potter smut what caused a new language please. alohomydrawersa

    Also i was using the term fanfiction very, very loosely. not so much sarcastically, but more in finger quotes. damn limitations of media with only a few types of emphasis.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I mean didn't he literally write his political rivals into positions of suffering and misery and make them admit to culpability and guilt?

    It's honestly a little more sad than normal pottersmut, it would be like if you wrote about how your bosses son is a Hufflepuff and can't get laid.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    ...write pottersmut where that one boss who was mean to me and keeps getting divorced gets divorced because he's so bad at sex he literally can't get laid, and it will inspire a new language, you are full of good ideas can we go to coffee sometime?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    So much effort?

    Isn't it the second most mass produced book in the world?

    After a certain point, the automation makes making more of them effortless.

    Also, it's an attention economy. If you want me to read your self-help/alt-history book, you need to give me an actual reason.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    So much effort?

    You do realize the movable type printing press was invented by Gutenberg and initially used to reproduce the bible right?

    So yeah... a lot of effort was most definitely put into bringing the Bible to the general masses.

    Isn’t it the second most mass produced book in the world?

    After a certain point, the automation makes making more of them effortless.

    That's kind of the point of the invention... to reproduce it at scale so it would be cheaper and everyone could read it instead of relying on the clergy to interpret for them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutenberg_Bible

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    It's been a while since the Divina Commedia was inflicted on me, but as far as I recall, Lucifer doesn't really rule hell, he's called its emperor but he's just its foremost prisoner. The only people he's punishing are the three great sinners he's chewing on, but that's more of a fluke.

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  • [–] 39 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Satan just wants you to be yourself and be cool to everyone else.

    I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

    II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

    III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

    IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

    V Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

    VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

    VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago

    I wore a shirt with the 7 tenets on the front, and my mother threw a massive fit when she saw it one day.

    I sent her plain text of the tenets, and said if she can point to a single thing wrong with anything it says, I'll consider it. I got no response.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago

    My favorite part of this post is people from different flavors of Christianity arguing completely different things using the same source.

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  • [–] 22 points 4 months ago

    Satan isn't evil, he even turn Buu good. He's the greatest.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago

    Satan's punishment is dishing out punishment because he's actually very passive and nice, so to him punishing others is very traumatic.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    I liked the jacaobs ladder view on demons.

    A soul trying to cling to its old life will feel haunted but one that is at peace Will see them as angels.

    Quoting top comment from youtube:

    14th-century Christian mystic, Meister Eckhart:

    "Eckhart saw Hell too. He said: 'The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you', he said. 'They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and ... you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth."

    You don't have to have a literal hell to know for yourself the truth of Eckhart's insight! Tremendously deep movie.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    If a masochist goes to hell he's in heaven

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Christians frame things as "All of the Christians are sitting here in one group, and all of the non-Christians are sitting over there in a different group."

    And that's fine. It's absolutely true.

    And if God exists and is the creator of the universe, that's pretty good for the Christians, and pretty bad for everyone else.

    But if God doesn't exist, then the Christians are just all together in a group that isn't getting to enjoy their existence while the rest of the world is just trying to enjoy theirs, and the Christians are just trying to prevent those other people from enjoying their lives.

    Either way, I'm surprised that the creator of the universe would organize things so that it would look that way from the outside.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    I like South Park Satan. That is how I choose to see it.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Who ever said Satan is punishing evil doers?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    isnt almost all his demons giving people deals too and its rarely him doing it.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    No, but you see, the Christian God is merciful. Oh, wait.

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  • [+] 10 points 4 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Let's break this down further because the Garden of Eden is fucking weird.

    So God has these two people he keeps as naked pets in a garden. He watches them every second of every day.

    God tells these people "eat as much fruit as you want, but don't eat the fruit from that tree, or you'll die."

    One day a snake tells Eve "God is lying to you, the fruit will make you smart; God wants you to be unquestioning and stupid."

    So Eve eats, and realises she's part of some weird nudity cult where she was lied to and taught that the truth is dangerous.

    She makes Adam eat and God, (who can see the future by the way) says "you failed my test, despite creating the conditions in which I knew would cause you to fail. Why couldn't you just have just accepted my lies and remained idiots? This is your fault"

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Only atheists and fundamentalist Christians take the Bible literally.

    We are sentient now (some more than others) but our ancestors were not sentient. There was nothing that was artificial before we were sentient and everything was nature. There was no good and evil, there was just finding food eating the food and surviving another day.

    At some point humans became sentient. Aware there is more going on than just eating and pooping. If a monkey kills another monkey it's just doing what it has to do to survive. If a human kills another human, that's murder. There is no good and evil without sentience. There was no sin in the Garden of Eden before humans had knowledge. Being sentient means you're aware of evil, and you have free will. You don't have to follow God's will.

    Maybe we'd be better off if we remained monkeys living in trees? All of the other lifeforms on the planet would certainly be better off if we had. There's a pretty good argument that humans becoming sentient wasn't a good thing to happen to the world.

    But it is what it is, we are sentient. Can't change that. We can't go back to the Garden of Eden. After you've eaten something you shouldn't have, you can't undo it. Once you have knowledge, you can't just unknow things. Ignorance is bliss and knowledge can be a curse.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago

    I can accept metaphorical truths, but I'd argue that any resemblance of them is coincidental.

    There is so much redundant or unnecessary nonsense in the bible, that some of it is bound to line up with some fundamental truth farther down the path of knowledge.

    Obviously, whoever wrote genesis was not aware of evolution, and I'm not implying that you are proposing this insinuation as an explanation (it's just an example of what I mean).

    Regardless of being unable to un-knowledge ourselves, one of the things I was pointing at was the absurdity of free-will as a concept.

    God is supposedly omniscient, he knows the test will fail.

    If you want to get metaphorical on that, you could probably spin it in some pretty weird ways.

    Regardless, Christians cannot reconcile the literal claim that God is all-knowing from the notion of free-will.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago*

    The reason he was cast out is because he tried to overthrow God by starting a rebellion.

    And the serpent wasn't originally identified as Satan. He was called one in Revelations, but in Genesis it was just a cunning snake.

    Regardless, humans couldn't have eaten the fruit without free will, so the serpent wasn't involved in them having it

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Satan didn't give humans free will, God did. They were created that way.

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  • [+] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    The fruit (not an apple) is the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God tells Adam and Eve not to eat from it or they will die.

    The serpent (who is not Satan, simply a snake) convinces Eve and subsequently Adam to eat the fruit, basically telling them that God is lying to them and keeping secrets from them.

    God subsequently expels them from the Garden of Eden for disobeying him.

    Adam and Eve had free will all along, it wasn't given to them by the forbidden fruit.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    There is a book called Waiting for the Intergalactic bus where god and satan turn out to be 2 energy based life forms who are students and were accidentally left behind on a class trip. Satan decides to ignore the prime directive and interfere with life on earth to pass the time. The torture in hell is strictly the humans idea, if I remember correctly.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    It's pretty metal to make the "most condemned" of all of them into the jailer.

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Uh oh Deep, if you put more than five seconds of thought into your religion you might lose it. Remember any doubts you have about Christianity were planted in your mind by the devil to lead you away from God. They are definitely not your own rational thoughts!

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  • [+] -6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Because doing evil is evil, and requires an evil person, no matter how they are.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Every individual is capable of good and evil, it doesn't require a specific person for it. In fact believing it does (and therefore usually believing it isn't you or your social group, but others) is a shortcut to inadvertently do evil shit without noticing any of it.

    "You don't have to be evil to kill someone. You just have to think you are right." - Yoko Taro

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yes agree. But that makes a person not universally good. One could say evil.

    So "god" being all good would not be able to do this because it is a human response to a human misdeed.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    But that makes a person not universally good. One could say evil.

    So every human is evil? Nah, that's equally nonsense. It's the misanthropic nonsense you hear from churches of course.

    So "god" being all good

    Lol.

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