Image description:


Text: Amazon's electric cargo bikes have arrived in DC.

Image: A four-wheeled vehicle that appears to be a cross between a bicycle, a go-cart, and a mini-truck

Response text from high t alpha shemale @gluetaster: that's not a cargo bike man that's a loopholemobile


Edit: I found a slightly higher-quality version of the image:

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[–] 208 points 4 months ago (6 children)

That's a keitruck without regulations.

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  • [–] 67 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    What? you don’t like corporate-exclusive keitrucks?

    Amazon: Kei for me not for thee

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I don't think there's necessarily anything corporate-exclusive about these; you could probably commission your own if you wanted.

    I don't really see how this doesn't count as a motor vehicle, though. Be interesting to see what the 'assist' speed and power limits are.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I looked up what constitutes an ebike in my state and it has to to be 750w or less motor and limit to 28mph with pedal assist. Has to have a front light and rear reflector like a regular bike. If you can go 30 or more on an ebike, its considered a motorcycle and you can be pulled over and need registration, insurance, license. This thing is gonna end up with many states adding vehicle weight limits.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    28 mph is 45 kph and about twice the speed at which assist is required to cut out in Europe.

    This thing needs weight limits and its speed halved. There should also be a momentum limit on speed times weight so a heavier vehicle has to go slower.

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago (12 children)

    The shit us Americans will do to not just fucking use Kei trucks like the rest of the world.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    A lot of it has to do with well-intentioned but stupid regulation.

    The auto companies in the 2000s started calling everything a truck in order to get around fuel economy standards, so in 2008 the EPA announced that beginning in model year 2012, standards would be based on vehicle footprint instead of vehicle classification.

    Notice how all the small trucks stopped being made after 2011? It's because small cargo vehicles suddenly had to somehow have better fuel economy than a sedan.

    It's also why trucks have gotten stupidly big over the last 15 years. As standards increase, they can just make the footprint bigger.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I may be wildly misinterpreting what you’re saying but calling the chicken tax well-intentioned is bafflingly naive.

    Your “representatives” are laughing at you all the way to the bank while they cash their oil checks. They knew exactly what the inevitable outcome would be of their shit legislation.

    And miss me with the BuT DeMoCrAtS WrOtE aNd PaSsEd tHe BiLl So iT mUsT hAvE bEeN an aCciDeNt.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago*

    It wasn't a bill, and even if it had been it would have been signed by Bush. It was the NHTSA that changed the rules, back when they were actually trying to do things in service to the public. It was an attempt to close a loophole that resulted in a bigger loophole.

    And nobody wins from the current regs. Auto companies still hate it. You think it's their preference to make bigger cars that are more expensive to manufacture? You think they don't want to be able to make small, cheap trucks and vans?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    We have blacks picking cotton for free in the prison-industrial complex of the deep south and parts of the midwest. As Americans we have this thing for slavery and subservience. The optics of things. I guess at some unconscious level we just want to see the rickshaw come back in some big, highly visible way.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    I work at Portland State University, which is embedded in downtown Portland. They have small maintenance trucks that go on street that have many traits in common with Kei trucks. They are too small, slow, and unsafe for a freeway, but are perfect for carrying cargo around campus. I am unclear why there is a carve out for those trucks, but not for Kei trucks.

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    My first reaction would be: great!

    Then I remember it's Amazon we're talking about, so it's pretty safe to assume there is some fuckery somewhere going on...

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  • [–] 26 points 4 months ago
    [–] 48 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    They've had a ton of these style of delivery vehicles around Berlin for years now. They work great, are really quiet, and solve the vast majority of last mile delivery needs.

    That said, the one in that photo is huge. I've never seen one even close to that size. The ones around here look more on this scale:

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Do they call them bicycles though? I'm guessing Amazon has chosen to call the DC one a "bicycle" (despite 4 wheels) because of some regulation they're avoiding with it or (more likely) some kickback they get for using bikes.

    I don't have a problem with the vehicle itself. Seems pretty neat. But it is not a bicycle.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    People are so wound up on the use of the word bicycle and bring stupid about the "bi" part for some reason. Germany regulates what's allowed on sidewalks and bike lanes. Many types of personal assist electric and pedal-controlled vehicles are allowed to use the bike lanes and sidewalks.

    The one posted by op would not be allowed in the bike lanes or sidewalks. It's probably too big.

    From a sloppy summary:

    A four-wheeled pedal-driven delivery vehicle is legally classified as a bicycle in Germany, provided it meets specific technical requirements. Vehicles in this category are officially known as multi-track bicycles (or heavy-duty cargo bikes).

    To maintain this legal classification, your delivery vehicle must adhere to the following rules under German law:

    Pure Muscle Power: If it is propelled exclusively by human pedaling, it is treated exactly like a standard bicycle. It is subject to no vehicle registration, tax, or insurance requirements.

    Electric Assist (Pedelec): If it includes an electric motor to assist the pedals, the motor must have a maximum continuous rated output of 250 W and cut off automatically once you reach 25 km/h.Vehicle

    Dimensions: To remain in the bicycle/cargo bike category, the vehicle cannot exceed 2.00 m in width, 4.00 m in length, and 2.50 m in height.

    No Throttle: The electric motor must only provide assistance while you are pedaling. If the vehicle has a throttle that propels the bike without pedaling (e.g., up to 6 km/h for walk-assist is okay), it can push the vehicle into a heavier moped class.

    Because it is a bicycle, you can ride it in bike lanes, and you are exempt from needing a driver's license. However, to be fully road-legal under Germany's strict StVZO (Road Traffic Licensing Regulations), the vehicle must be equipped with:

    Two independent braking systems (front and rear).A clear-sounding mechanical bicycle bell.

    Approved lighting (white front light, red rear light).Required reflectors (white front, red rear, amber on pedals, and side reflectors).

    If the delivery vehicle exceeds these power, speed, or dimension limits (such as having a motor up to 4000 W or reaching 45 km/h like an S-Pedelec), it is classified as a motorized vehicle. This would require an AM or B driver’s license, a license plate, insurance, and would prohibit you from using bicycle paths

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Don't post that shit here, assuming that sloppy means adapted from ai slop

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Am i supposed to trust your word on that? Better to just not post ai in the first place.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    You just blindly trust what random people tell you..? Lol people post bullshit all the time, ai or human yoy should be verifying the information regardless.

    I would trust AI to not intentionally feed me bullshit over humans, ai only does that unintentionally and while following the example of humans doing it. Which is why you remove Reddit results, because places like this is where it happens.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    tbf they probably have to go on big busy roads a lot more in the USA, and there's a lot more bigger trucks, and the drivers licence test is probably a bit less comprehensive than Germany, judging by how well people get out of the way of emergency vehicles in Berlin vs NYC in videos 😅

    So you want a bigger vehicle just so you dont get squished by a silverado or something where the driver can't even see the first 5m in front of them...

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago

    Strong Flintstones energy

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    Why the world doesn't switch to mostly vehicles like this is fucking dumb. Hate amazon but support more vehicles like this.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    If people would stop buyung shit from Amazon this wouldn't happen. I can't believe so many folks don't care. People I know still get stuff from Amazon. It's like talking to a brick wall.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    The thing that gets me is why people buy stuff from Amazon to begin with. Their search feature is horrid now, the products on there are all cheap Chinese crap that's way overpriced, the reviews aren't reliable, their shitty AI is 100% collecting your data and selling to advertisers, the number of delayed deliveries has been increasing over time, and the list goes on and on. Like it's a genuinely bad product now. I remember Amazon in 2016 was elite, but in 2026? It ain't worth a quarter. This is on top of their shitty labor practices.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I mostly buy from ebay and direct websites when I can. Although in certain circumstances, I feel trapped; I'm trying to buy specific airsoft BBs and all online retailers only offer one jar and I would need to buy 3 jars for free shipping, I'm fine with that but they all have 1 in stock, only Amazon stocks like 14 in their warehouse

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    It's called a captive market and platform capitalism for a reason. Thanks to the network effect, buyers and sellers gravitate to Amazon. Amazons main product is selling access to it's walled of market to third party sellers (and attention to advertisers). All of this is to avoid competition and extract monopoly rents. "Ethical consumption" (just telling people not to use Amazon) is fine, but not enough to break this monopoly on its own. It will never work as a single strategy. You also need massive organizing for worker and consumer strikes and/or internationally coordinated state power to forcibly break apart the monopoly.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    How to test if it's actually a bicycle:

    I propose a simple ontological test by law enforcement. Simply steal one. If the police treat it like they do bicycle theft, it's a bicycle. If the police treat it like it's an auto theft, then it's an automobile.

    If the police take the theft of one of these seriously, like they would a car theft, then point to that as justification for why they should be regulated like autos and banned from bike lanes. If the police treat it like bike theft....well....there's a lot of valuable materials in those loopholemobiles....and the police clearly aren't taking theft of them seriously...so....well the problem will solve itself.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    That's kind of a dumb test. If I make a bicycle out of gold and diamonds and someone steals it, the theft will be taken seriously. Police just respond to crimes of different dollar amounts differently. It has nothing to do with the nature of this vehicle.

    Edit. I haven't seen any more details on these vehicles, but it's clearly labeled a vehicle. I'm guessing it's registered and would be treated as an automobile theft.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    That isn't really true. Police have a unique disdain for everything related to bicycling and cycling. Most cops are themselves morbidly obese, ideologically avoid exercise, and view bicyclists as hippies and fitness freaks who deserve to be run over. Police will go out of their way to not bring charges in the case of actual cyclists deaths. And they treat bicycle theft with active disdain, putting far fewer resources into bike theft than the value of the goods stolen would justify.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 months ago

    At least it isn't racking up tens of thousands of hours of pollution emitting idle time like the gas vehicles.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago

    I would love to see those taking over the streets, but I would hate to see them in the bike lane.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Capitalism, uh, finds a way.

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  • [–] 77 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    no AC and a singular water bottle. no protection for the driver either if someone decides to run up and drive off with it. Who thought this was a great idea?

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  • [–] 88 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Someone who will never have to use it, or likely even interact with someone who does

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  • [–] 64 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    That's an Amazon driver. The water bottle is not for drinking.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    But how you gonna piss with everything all open like that?

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Maybe you can go in the back.

    I always wonder how many unwashed piss hands have touched the packages I get delivered.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Possibly quite a bit less than you’d think, as I see many delivery people and those in fulfillment centers wearing work gloves of some kind. That said, there are always outliers.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You ever hear the stories about the TSA people who wear their rubber gloves into the bathroom to go piss and then don’t wash their hands before they go back out to rifle through you bag for a tube of toothpaste?

    I’m kind of a germaphobe so I think about these things.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Can’t say I have, but given the average person’s propensity for laziness, I’m thoroughly unsurprised. Knew a medic that served aboard an aircraft carrier, and they regaled me with horror stories about how those things are nuclear-powered floating disease factories.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    "It doesn't have to be crash certified if it's a bike"

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I dont think it reaches the dangerous speeds.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Speed is relative. It may not go fast relative to the ground, but relative to oncoming traffic..

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The same us true no matter whether you're cycling, walking or skateboarding.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Though in a pretty good situation, you hopefully have decent sidewalks and bikelines with some separation from traffic, especially oncoming traffic.

    If these things are in the bike lane, they seem hazardous to more typical occupants of that lane, if the car lane, seems more dangerously close to big vehicles.

    That said, if confined to typical downtown traffic speeds, probably not as much to worry about usually.

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Loopholemobile, oh yeah for sure, still waaayyyy better than a whole ass SUV.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    I am amazed at how this is mostly not mentioned in more upvoter comments. If kei trucks were not outlawed in the US for having the driver see the road too well this wouldn't exist, most likely

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Smaller trucks would make more sense and be better for the drivers aswell, though overall we’re marginally against same day/next day delivery. That way drivers and workers can take more time and not be rushed delivering things constantly

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago

    thats so funny, they cant include a steering wheel and the driver has to performatively rotate their legs :DD

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago

    Ngl, I kinda want to get one to transform into a camping trailer. Become a traveling tea monk.

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  • [–] 30 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I don't think these are a problem. They deliver mail and parcels with kind of similar vehicles here in Finland, though I grant that ours are a little bit smaller.

    If there's a problem with these, it's that legislation doesn't properly recognize a class of vehicle smaller than a car but bigger than a bicycle. That's not to say these vehicles shouldn't exist, and stuff like this rightfully shouldn't have to follow the same rules cars do (because, well, it's a lot smaller, lighter, quieter and slower).

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    NZ Post has somewhat similar Paxsters, but they have full roadgoing registrations and license plates. I think they might have their own categorisation or exemption to allow them to legally be driven on footpaths like posties on motorbikes. Not used for parcel service, only letter mail

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    The mistake is looking at this through the eyes of not being American, not having to work for Amazon, and a postal service vs whatever Amazon deliveries is.

    This is Amazon, looking for loopholes to use cheaper vehicles. That's it. Minimum, if any, safety for the driver while they're going around major roadways with vehicles that outweigh that thing.

    So to recalibrate.... think of the most evil person you can. Cool, now double it. That's Amazon as a company. They can and will do anything they can legally get away with or if profits outweigh the fine(s).

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    Obviously Amazon is only interested in these as an opportunity to inflict further cruelty and exploitation upon their workers while flaunting regulations, but even beyond that there is a bigger issue here regarding the absence of space for something between bikes and cars.

    The thing about electric bikes is that they are a wonderfully deep well of loophole nonsense, this cuts both ways TBH. Right now, the American road is just too generalized, with not enough separation of regulation, infrastructure and spaces to accommodate different niches. Instead everything is forced to exist in a single framework, which is built to match large, highway capable, trucks and cars. It is a cataclysm of needless gigantism that wastes energy, space, and lives.

    Having a separate category of smaller, lighter vehicles that are less dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists, with lower energy usage, looser licensing and smaller footprints is needed. But you can’t have them operating alongside normal cars/trucks, or regulated in the same framework. The carveouts around powered pedal assist vehichles, and the growing network of bike infrastructure, created space for these kinds of middle vehicles to start coming in to existence, but there is a very real risk that they’ll push out light vehicles like bikes( including those with reasonable powered pedal assist) for the same reason they’re not practical alongside trucks and cars. They will get people killed, both other people in bike lanes with them, and their own operators. There will have to be regulation, and that regulation will ether push this deeply needed middle ground vehicle out of existence, or kill the growth of bicycles.

    I think the real solution here is to formalize a regulatory standard for these kinds of middle vehicles, kick them out of bike lanes and off of side walks, and heavily restrict highway capable cars/trucks from dense areas like urban cores to give the middle vehicles somewhere safe to operate.

    “Oh but if I can’t drive my suburban assault vehicle straight in to the middle of the city, my hundred mile a day commute would be very inconvenient” drive to a park and ride and take the metro(DC area in this context) in, for the areas where that’s not practical yet, we should build more light and commuter rail.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Its a van not a car. So it doesn't need to be automatically fucked.

    Assuming it's not delivering frivolous crap and is carrying stuff people actually need then it's fine.

    When they start coming in bike lanes and up on the pavement then fuck them. That's when vans can get fucked too.

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