"it was actually a PY32F002B, powered by a 24 MHz Arm Cortex M0+ processor. The chip also carried 24KB of flash storage and 3KB of static RAM"
To process a single button.
"it was actually a PY32F002B, powered by a 24 MHz Arm Cortex M0+ processor. The chip also carried 24KB of flash storage and 3KB of static RAM"
To process a single button.
In my mind, nothing with a circuit board is disposable. Pains me to see it.
why does a glorified heater connected to a battery need any silicon attached to it?
To control the amount of voltage used in making the heat and not immediately burst into flames, for one.
It is interesting to see old tech having clever solutions for stuff like this, these days the answer is 98% of the time is to slap a CPU on it.
It's boring!
Wait til you hear about all the different technologies we use to generate electricity
99% spinning a generator and 1% direct solar panels
Hey, hasn't that panel number been going up lately?
The amount of panels has been. Unfortunately as always our demand also keep increasing.
yep, that’s right -
it goes in the square holewe’re boiling water!
it's not all steam
You're right! Sometimes we let the kinetic energy of the liquid water itself spin the turbine, when we're feeling freaky.
Doesn't that just need a voltage regulator? It's disposable so you don't never need to concern yourself with charging.
A lot of them have selectable voltage/power levels as a "feature", which is easier to do via a mcu PWM controll than discrete electronics.
yeah it's more efficient this way but all you need is ne555 + mosfet tho? still no need for it to be turing complete
Yes, but think about it like you're a Chinese manufacturing engineer with only basic electronics education. You COULD do that design, build out the pcb, custom tool it to fit your plastic housing, etc etc.... Or you could go to the manufacturer down the street who already makes pre designed voltage reg MCU's on a board and spend like, 20 minutes in an IDE to code the specific voltage levels and button presses.
When production volume and turnaround time is the only things that matter in this shovel waste crap, "wasting" silicon is less expensive financially than building out the optimal solution.
my guess would be it's a parts commonality thing, it's not hard to make it the old way, there are datasheets for it too. sure you could probably make tiny and cheaper (30x10mm? maybe smaller) analog board with two chips and mosfet working as pwm controller and current limiter, but it'll have different passives for different battery sizes and heater powers. or you could make one design with optional usb port that you might just not solder on, and depending on model you just put different firmware inside
The old way is actually the analog style you've mentioned, but that was the very early days of ecigs well before they became mass market, the cottage industry modding scene had no hope of creating sophisticated microcontrollers and the charger wasn't even USB, it was a DC jack & plug. Lavatube was the first time we had that kind of microcontroller regulation & then the DNA15 and DNA20 came out, got cloned by China and that changed the game forever.
The problem with the older way is consumers understand watts alone as a relatively consistent measurement of power much better than they would the relation between voltage, resistance & current draw. They didn't want to learn Ohm 's Law back then and wouldn't want to know about it now. Microcontrollers simplified that massively.
Designing a board to run a microcontroller like that is actually pretty simple.
I've done it for fun with a couple similar microcontrollers, and whilst I'm an EE by training I don't do it professionally plus my training is from before embedded system, so I count as a Junior EE for that.
I'm pretty sure that even a freshly graduate Chinese EE can even on their own figure out the general recipe for integrating something this (following the datasheet, add crystal + load caps, plus about 1 caps each power pin for power filtering plus 1 global power filtering cap, plus possibly a pull-down/up resistor on the RESET pin) in a week or two and then for subsequent projects it will be feasible to do it in a few days.
Really, there's other shit in there (say, battery management) that's more work to figure out than how to add and place the parts for an entry level ARM microcontroller to work.
There are really cheap mcus that need maybe one capacitor if even that. It is cheaper, easier and more flexible than the multiple components required to configure an NE555.
With the economy of scale, it is probably cheaper to just drop a microcontroller in products
I was just thinking that yeah again all it needs is some basic components. Like how a light bulb or fan might have multiple power settings but I don't expect them to be able to run doom.
A search in Digipart shows the cheapest price of this microcontroller as $0.10 whilst the cheapest price of the NE555 is $0.13
It really is THAT ridiculous.
not what i have expected tbh
Yeah, it doesn't make much since if you think in terms of how many transistors are needed to implement each of them as the microcontroller probably uses hundreds of thousands more transistors than a 555.
That said, given reasonably recent processes die size for both are probably pretty close (I reckon most of the size of a modern 555 die would be the points to place the wires to the package) and with pretty similar yields (pretty close to 100%)
I wouldn't be surprised if the reason has something to do with economies of scale since a cheap microcontroller can pretty much be used for the same things as a 555 and a whole lot more than that, so it makes sense more of the former are manufactured than of the latter, plus I bet the process generation used in making the microcontroller is probably more recent and hence one where there are more fabs operating. This latter reason would also explain why this more recent 32-bit microcontroller is actually cheaper than older 8-bit ones with less built-in memory and fewer peripherals (such as the ATTiny ones).
ne555
Thanks for the interesting read. Real nifty little timing/switching circuit!
it's kinda dogshit but for this application it (cmos version) would be good enough. or better than that, there are dedicated pwm signal generators. i meant this thing in terms of complexity needed
It was a good insight into how the lightbulb dimming tech of the 80s/90s worked. Also why the dimmer switches back then were so dangerous with the capacitor likely just a few mm's away from the light switch which might not have been properly wired because UK homes back then didn't run a neutral back from the switch, but daisy-chained the switch and the bulb together and then ran the neutral back from the bulb
Some of the larger disposables do have a charging port. I guess it allows them ship a smaller battery which is good
ok fine i'd put there a current limiter which you can make with 2 transistors and a diode. no need for an entire microcontroller. it's often included with batteries these days anyway
I believe lithium ion batteries need custom chips just to charge and discharge smartly
Shit, even connecting to modern USB c to negotiate voltage you need a controller
i think you can get away with resistors when you can work with 5V, up to 1.5A. lithium batteries need current limiter in series with voltage limiter, and this alone can be made in a very simple way, unless you want to know when battery is charged, or if you want extra efficiency that smps gives you, but this only makes sense for larger batteries (phone-sized and up) or when you want to handle everything to charger and connect battery to charger directly. then i think you need controller
It's probably cheaper and simpler to modify (say you suddenly want it to turn on when you click 3 times) to use a 0.1€ chip than to figure out how to do it and build it with discrete components.
20 years ago I was all "computer (chips) can do everything! We can use them everywhere! Replaceable, reprogrammable, fantastic!"
And no one cared.
Now they are everywhere and it's just a fucking mess 😔
Maybe 20 years from now the EU will have forced standards onto everything and you can (again) fix your dishwasher (and start it from work!!1!).
probably more expensive to make different mechanical components when a simple chip does it all for cheaper. how ev are cheaper than ice cars,
Reusing them, even in small experimental projects, underscores a broader sustainability opportunity.
Bigger opportunity would be banning this shit.
outright bans just allow black markets to flourish. harm reduction and public safety campaigns would go much further
We wouldn't be banning vaping, we'd be banning disposable vapes.
As someone who vapes quite a bit, I would genuinely love to see this. Disposables are an absolute shitshow and never should have existed in the first place.
Seriously. I struggle to fathom how running out for disposables is even slightly more convenient than refilling a proper tank every so often and replacing the coil. It tastes better, lasts longer and makes much less waste.
I think it's the marketing of it. A decent amount of people I've talked to genuinely don't know that there's a reusable option. This also changed when the tobacco industry got involved. Vaping used to have more of a culture of cessation. It was talked about how you could transition from cigs at a higher nicotine level, then bring it down until you're vaping zero nic, then quit that. I barely hear anyone talk about the quitting pipeline anymore. I don't think it's an accident, I think it's intentional.
Edit: I also think it's the fact that you only have to buy one thing, and the 3 things (device, coils, juice) aren't available in every gas station like disposables are. And the user experience - open the box and it starts right up, no refills, all it needs is a charge once in a while. People are really fucking lazy, by nature. But the cost of all those conveniences is indebted tenfold upon the environment, as destruction and waste.
I can't argue with that. I started to preemptively keep myself OFF of cigs (entire family smokes and I knew I would eventually pick up the habit). For a while now, most of the talk around it I've heard is just whether or not it's cool or cringe rather than how it can be used to quit smoking.
Maybe the disposables wouldn't be so egregious if you could keep the battery like you used to be able to and just replace the disposable tanks. I think that's what bothers me the most. We had an okay system before that wasn't really complicated and wasn't NEARLY as wasteful.
Vapes should never have existed? Smoking rates and nicotine addiction were finally going down... Then the good old invention of the vape brings it rocketing back again.
This, cartridges make me feel dirty, let alone wasting a entire li-ion cell too.
There are some shops that will actually collect the vapes and send them back to the manufacturer for recycling. But it's less common than it used to be, which frustrates me to no end, it should be the reverse if anything.
It makes you feel dirty, but the question is do you still do it anyway - and if the answer is yes, that's the problem. because that's what drives the whole industry.
Individuals having desires is not "the problem". That would be corporations having free reign to behave however the fuck they want, so long as they can pay the fed.
There's more than one problem. Even if politicians weren't bribey and Citizens United didn't give corps a license to bribe them, we would still have pollution and other problems because individuals choose convenience over doing the right thing - which is "the" problem I meant.
we should ban all forms of smoking
But can it run DOOM?
You can run Doom on a literal potato
But not on a Neo Geo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1-7c6WX10
TL;DW - the Neo Geo has a uniquely bad architecture for FPS games making them nearly impossible to get working on the console.
That's being changed, however, as a bunch of determined devs are using raycasting to go around the console's limitations, being heavily optimized to run SNK's arcade titles.
I hope someone accomplishes it, even if it's single digit framerate.
I have seen people run Doom on a pregnancy test, and you are telling me that the Neo Geo can't run it!?
That video is a hoax. It's a small screen inserted into a pregnancy test, cables run out the side which is never brought into frame.
It seems since I have made this post that a huge amount of progress has been made in getting FPS games running on the neogeo.
I'm curious who your sole downvoter was. Was it a potato producer that dislikes gaming ? Perhaps a lemon farmer who feels their fruit could run doom on 4k. Was it someone who purchased a $5000 dollar rig only to find out they could have bought a singular potato? I guess we'll never know
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